Are you going on about a player missing simple passes. Interesting. There is another thread for that too, you know..
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 46
- Goals
- 28
- Assists
- 9
- Yellow cards
- 8
- Status
He showed fight and he didn't smile like a dick at the end of the game.
That's about all in terms of positive things about him... his passing was awful.
That's about all in terms of positive things about him... his passing was awful.
No words indeed. Wtf was he doing
... It is a simple pass but if you feck up the weight of it, you kill the opening and that it what happened.That's what has surprised/disappointed me most with Zlatan, a lot of his distribution, lay offs etc have been pretty poor.
I can only assume he has a decent track record in the past? It looked like Rooney was trying to talk him out of it but he was having none of it.
Couple of my friends who went to the game last night said afterwards Ibra was the only United player to not even bother going over to the fans and applaud them for actually making the effort to watch that shite. He walked right down the tunnel. Bad form.
i assume its a desperate attempt to get his goal tally up
Oh come off it. Every player declines with age
I know half of this forum spent the summer convincing themselves that Zlatan was at the peak of his powers but this was just unrealistic. He is a 35 year old striker who has been playing in a shite league for years.
He is not even close to his best and it was unfair to even ask him about it.
But don't worry, his press officer will email out a quick quote about Manchester having plenty of City fans until they converted after meeting him and his biggest fans will be too busy finding a bathroom stall in work so they can have a quick wank to worry about the fact he hasn't scored in living memory and even his passing has gone to shit
Someone said in here that he is more meme than footballer these days - good line.
He can still "do a job" but no way in hell should he be our main striker or someone we build a team around (building a team around any 35 year old is fecking insane)
Leave out the straw man arguments mate, when did I say anything about building a team around him?
Yeah everyone declines with age, but age doesn't remove a players ability to finish or play simple passes does it? These are the issues we are seeing with Zlatan right now, to put it all down to age is idiotic. There's a far deeper problem with Zlatan and the team as a whole that isn't all down to 'coz he old'.
Sometimes it does. Aging players get slower in their reactions and decision making. Aging doesn't affect only the physical aspects of the game.
Could he be in trouble for grabbing Kjaer by the throat?
I get why/how people like the guy, but all I see is a massive cnut.
I get why/how people like the guy, but all I see is a massive cnut.
We need a massive cnut
I can't honestly remember ever seeing him score a free kick, i'm sure he has maybe a few in France but from what i've seen this season he can never have been much good at them because they've been awful.
Yeah it looked like Rooney was trying to get him to do something else and he was right but he's obviously been put on FK's by Mourinho. Jose needs to tell him he's had his chance, from the looks of it he probably needs to smash 100 at goal for one to fly in.
Course it does. Take a penalty. Then go for a five mile jog and take the same penalty. Do the same with some passes. If you're tired, if your body is losing its agility, everything becomes more difficult.
So age would account for some of the point blank misses we have seen recently? come on.
I'm sure he had much more time on the ball in the French league and the whole game of PSG was organised around him. It's different now and his age is starting to show in a more demanding league and in a less organised team.
Even if he scores 5-6 goals over the next 3-4 games, he will inevitably go through another prolonged barren period, IMO.
That's a straw man argument. Don't try and confuse age with general fitness or stamina. There's a correlation between the two but Zlatan is clearly a massive outlier when it comes to his fitness for his age.
Age in isolation means absolutely nothing. it's a number on a birth certificate. By all means criticise his aspects of his game, but saying a player cannot do X purely because of his age is a complete fallacy.
Saying all that, noting in Zlatan's United career so far suggests that his physical capability is impacting him either. He's highly involved throughout and getting a boatload of chances. It just hasn't gone in net recently, whether that is down to variance or poor finishing or lack of composure.
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Ha posters love to use the "straw man" phrase. It's just not relevant here at all.
If age is just a number why did you say "he's an outlier when it comes to fitness FOR HIS AGE."
It makes you wonder why 99.9% of footballers retire in their mid 30's when there are posters on redcafe telling us its just a number.
So he could still throw himself into a scissor kick which resulted in an incredible save from Heaton but his age wouldn't allow him to judge a tap in from 5 yards...
I'm all for championing the Premier league, but it doesn't make your finishing magically inferior because you're playing in England. Zlatan has missed plenty of chances recently that the pace of the league had nothing to do with, it goes beyond the date on his birth certificate mate.
Nobody says his age is the only reason for the barren period but it's a factor. When you are 30+, chances are you may experience a rapid decline at some point. His decision making isn't good. He gives the ball away too many times for a class forward. It's not only about finishing. His overall game has been very unimpressive in most games, including the game vs Soton when he scored twice. The goals masked a very average performance outside the penalty box.
I'm not saying every single miss is down to his age. Sometimes he misses like every striker does.
Him being good at scissor kicks though doesn't prove he has the lungs and lightness of feet to score the goals he once did.
This isn't theory. It's happening every week on the pitch. Right in front of our eyes.
Because I am conceding that there is a correlation between age and the average footballer's physical aptitude. It is only the latter that has any tangible impact, however, and if a player possesses the physical aptitude normally associated with an athlete many years younger, it would be utterly asinine to dismiss him on the basis of the year on his birth certificate. This was the same for Ryan Giggs and Edwin van der Sar.
Paul Scholes is a bit different as he increasingly found ways to adapt his game to overcome his physical decline.
What about Zlatan's game so far suggests his age is the problem? Physically he looks fantastic and there are many other players who he compares very well to: Rashford, Mata, Shaw and Rooney all look as if they finding the physical demands more pressing.
Dismissing a player on his age, when you have evidence to the contrary, is an utter fallacy, however. There's a reason why, say in Athletics, Jo Pavey is selected for the 10,000m at the European Championships in 2014 and 2012, at the age of 41 and 39 respectively, and wins gold and silver. It's because she's an outlier physically who possesses the fitness normally associated with a woman several years longer and you are not handicapped on the start line based on the year you were born.
He's looked way past his best the last half a dozen games thats for sure. He's even lost that swagger it seems.
Maybe the Premier League is a bit more difficult than he thought it would and its take its toll.
Maybe the Premier League is a bit more difficult than he thought it would and its take its toll.
You say I've used a straw man argument but then use a 10,000m runner as a comparison.
Footballers need speed, light feet, quick decision making. The skillset of a long distance runner is very different to a footballer. Obviously. So I'll leave that argument there.
Physically he doesn't look fantastic. He looks big and strong. He also looks slow and tired. His legs and feet look heavy, hence the overhit passes, the nothing finishes. If you don't believe age is at least part of the problem then what is it? Is it everybody else's fault? Can it be confidence when he's supposed to be the most confident player in the world?
And..... that if Rooney is worshipped by some on here then surely its justified, due to what hes done for our club.
Zlatans done feck all so far.
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Ive been disappointed with him so far. I was expecting this but I'm really sad it turned out this way.
Bringing in a pertinent comparison to a specific point of argument is not equivalent to straw-manning, The point being made is that it is incorrect to assume a player's (or any athlete's) physical aptitude based on their age. Whilst there is a strong correlation between age and physical aptitude, there are plenty of sportspeople blessed with great genetics, which combined with a dedicated, professional approach, can see them possess the physical aptitude at 35 than many players at their peak never had.
In other words, criticising a player's age is a fallacy. By all means criticise their fitness or physical decline, but not their age. It makes no difference out on the pitch.
Additionally, whilst speed (or pace) is useful for a footballer, it's probably the most overrated attribute there is. Decision making and anticipation, that is "deciding what to do" and "understanding what is happening and going to happen" is infinitely more important. Raw pace wouldn't have helped in many recent matches.
Can't agree with your assessment, but now we're mainly talking about purely subjective things. The link up play in many recent matches between Mata, Pogba and Zlatan has been very good in my opinion.
If we focus in on one thing we can quantify however, bad touches, then stats are not really baring this out. Forwards are always most guilty of this because of the type of positions they receive the ball and the types of balls that are often played to them. League leader in bad touches per game is J. King on 3.3, Costa is 4th with 3.2, Sanchez is 8th with 2.7, Aguero is 12th with 2.4, Zlatan is 18th with 2.4. Everyone in the top 35 is an offensive midfielder or forward.
The biggest factor in his lack of goals is likely to be just variation or chance, in my opinion. I don't think enough credence is ever given to this in football.
We have two really promising young strikers. We are holding back their development to play a 35 year old in decline upfront.
It really annoys me, I hope it ends this year.
There's nothing pertinent about comparing a long distance runner to a striker.
Pace isn't overrated. Pace on its own is.
Criticising a player based purely on his age would be a fallacy but then I haven't done that. Neither has anybody else. If he was playing like a prime Rooney nobody would care that he's 35. He's being judged on his performances. So you're arguing against a point nobody has made.
I said a few weeks ago that the fact he's taking so many shots isn't a good thing, apparently we've got to keep waiting a few more games until he scores a couple to see how wrong we were.
I'm sure when he does eventually score it'll be a case of "zlatan's back
" and general glossing over the fact that he's already cost us a lot of points.I don't think age has much to do with his finishing IMO. He's getting plenty of chances. That's 1 positive. His finishing has just gone down the toilet for whatever reason.
That said, he was pretty awful vs Fener. He just looked heavy all game again. I don't think Mourinho has used him well either. I know it's Ibra, but he should get a rest here and there. He is 35. He's human.
That said, he was pretty awful vs Fener. He just looked heavy all game again. I don't think Mourinho has used him well either. I know it's Ibra, but he should get a rest here and there. He is 35. He's human.
The Untouchable Zlatan
IV been pretty anti- Zlatan in my threads but it isn't entirely his fault.
Jose has built a team to get the best out of a quality player. However these supporting players are not 0n the same level as Zlatan.
Sure he could do well if we had di Maria & Lucas crossing balls to him but instead we have forwards like Rashford & martial who are doing that - if not them it's young, Valencia 0r blind.
A lot lf these players are being played 0ut pf position to try & get the best out of Zlatan.
That's where it's Jose's fault & not Zlatan s.
After a whole two years 0f adapting to a team focused approach in possession - we switch to a team trying to get the best out of 0ne individual.
I kind of find it sad really.
Jose has built a team to get the best out of a quality player. However these supporting players are not 0n the same level as Zlatan.
Sure he could do well if we had di Maria & Lucas crossing balls to him but instead we have forwards like Rashford & martial who are doing that - if not them it's young, Valencia 0r blind.
A lot lf these players are being played 0ut pf position to try & get the best out of Zlatan.
That's where it's Jose's fault & not Zlatan s.
After a whole two years 0f adapting to a team focused approach in possession - we switch to a team trying to get the best out of 0ne individual.
I kind of find it sad really.
What's up with your use of 0 instead of o?
Linked to LA Galaxy in a summer move, why can't they make it a winter move.
He's missed more OPTA classed big chances than any other player. He is getting the chances. Stop making excuses for him. The other players didn't force him to miss for two yards against Burnley.
I didn't want to sign him and I'm critical of his performances but I like this. This team badly needs a bit more attitude. I hope Martial and Rashford look at Ibra and realise it's OK to get angry now and again. It can actually be a positive thing. You don't always have to be perfectly serene.
If half of the team have acted like they'd have chips on their shoulders we wouldn't get a single chance to complain about limp performances. We'd be moaning about red cards though...
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