Zlatan Ibrahimovic image 10

Zlatan Ibrahimovic Sweden flag

2016-17 Performances

View full 2016-17 profile

6.2 Season Average Rating
Appearances
46
Goals
28
Assists
9
Yellow cards
8
Status
Not open for further replies.
whatwha said:
:rolleyes: What a stupid thing to say. Zlatan is a statistical outlier. One example does not "prove" anything about all other footballers and their natural physical decline.
Click to expand...

Except, you know, there are other good examples of footballers who have looked after themselves and have gone into playing into their 30s and mid 30s at a great level, like Ronaldo, Giggs, Scholes, Pirlo, Totti. Guess they are outliers as well. Im sure the way they looked after themselves and them playing late into their careers are just co-incidences. :rolleyes:
 
All 3 United said:
TBF Rooney has fallen off a cliff this season.

I will be honest, I am not a fan of Zlatan, probably because I prefer free flowing, dynamic attacking football and I feel Zlatan prevents that somewhat. Don't get me wrong he's scored some important goals (and missed some absolute sitters) but his general involvement during the build up play tends to result in us losing the ball or slowing down the attack.

Now if rumours are to be believed, he's saying he won't be signing for us if we're not in the CL, at 36 he should be bitting our hand off and committing to the club.
Click to expand...
Does he really slow down the attack? I've seen some mention this. But is it really true? Sure, he's not fast but if the players around him are fast and show themselves then Ibra is always quick to give the ball to them and make sure they get in a good position.
 
All 3 United said:
Now if rumours are to be believed, he's saying he won't be signing for us if we're not in the CL, at 36 he should be bitting our hand off and committing to the club.
Click to expand...
He's probably been our player of the season, he doesn't need to be biting our hand off for anything, he'll get plenty of offers elsewhere.
 
From espn (Mourinho about Ibra):

"I think he is even better than when I worked with him at Inter," Mourinho said. "He is more collected, more intelligent and understands the game even better. He is not just a finisher, but is also important when it comes to creating goals.

"He is a leader. He has a special feeling, a special care with the younger guys. I think he could play on until he is 40 from a physical point of view.

"But is not only about the physical point of view. It is also about a mental point of view. One day he will make his decision and the world of football will have to accept it. What he has been doing is phenomenal. But one day he will wake up and decide enough is enough."
Click to expand...
 
Sylar said:
Except, you know, there are other good examples of footballers who have looked after themselves and have gone into playing into their 30s and mid 30s at a great level, like Ronaldo, Giggs, Scholes, Pirlo, Totti. Guess they are outliers as well. Im sure the way they looked after themselves and them playing late into their careers are just co-incidences. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
And how many hundreds or thousands of footballers have not managed the same despite looking after themselves? You just assume that everyone who couldn't continue wasn't doing everything to stay fit.
 
All 3 United said:
TBF Rooney has fallen off a cliff this season.
Click to expand...
Despite being our best of the rest in terms of statistical contribution?... 5 goals 10 assists is the most goals/assists out of all of our other players bar Zlatan. Consider that with limited minutes, this claim is completely false.

All 3 United said:
I will be honest, I am not a fan of Zlatan, probably because I prefer free flowing, dynamic attacking football and I feel Zlatan prevents that somewhat. Don't get me wrong he's scored some important goals (and missed some absolute sitters) but his general involvement during the build up play tends to result in us losing the ball or slowing down the attack.
Click to expand...
It is fair, despite what some will say. I've warmed to Zlatan but it doesn't mean I can't acknowledge some of the foibles that come along with him. Statistically he has been a phenomenal contributor to our team this season. Can't really say much more than that until it is time.
 
Ashley R1+O said:
Despite being our best of the rest in terms of statistical contribution?... 5 goals 10 assists is the most goals/assists out of all of our other players bar Zlatan. Consider that with limited minutes, this claim is completely false.


It is fair, despite what some will say. I've warmed to Zlatan but it doesn't mean I can't acknowledge some of the foibles that come along with him. Statistically he has been a phenomenal contributor to our team this season. Can't really say much more than that until it is time.
Click to expand...

Do you watch the games or just mindlessly follow the stats? Half of the assist were just normal passes any player could and would do in that situation.
 
Ashley R1+O said:
Despite being our best of the rest in terms of statistical contribution?... 5 goals 10 assists is the most goals/assists out of all of our other players bar Zlatan. Consider that with limited minutes, this claim is completely false.


It is fair, despite what some will say. I've warmed to Zlatan but it doesn't mean I can't acknowledge some of the foibles that come along with him. Statistically he has been a phenomenal contributor to our team this season. Can't really say much more than that until it is time.
Click to expand...
So basically, Rooney = Stats show he's great! Zlatan = Stats are good, but still not convinced...

:lol:
 
Kubalionzzale said:
Do you watch the games or just mindlessly follow the stats? Half of the assist were just normal passes any player could and would do in that situation.
Click to expand...
Yes, I watch the games.. Hence the response to his argument which was down the lines of his aesthetic contribution and individual ability has an effect on the way our team plays, despite the phenomenal statline that he has going on. Juxtapose that to the stat-line of Rooney which is second in terms of contribution and analyze the cause and effect of Zlatan's game, vs Zlatan's statline.

That kind of hardcore rational football thinking was exactly what @All 3 United was implying. Zlatan might have the numbers, but his effect on the team can wax and wane. Like any other footballer in our team (hell every football team ever I guess).

Unlikely lad said:
So basically, Rooney = Stats show he's great! Zlatan = Stats are good, but still not convinced...

:lol:
Click to expand...
Spare the thread the passive-aggressive nonsense and allow yourself to understand what I am actually talking about, apply it to the context that @All 3 United is using here. Engage in discussion, it is a similar argument. Despite one player producing great numbers he can have an all-round effect as well as another (any other, Mata, Mkhi, Martial, Lingarrd etc etc) player for similar reason.

Rockets Redglare said:
Or shots he fecked up that luckily cannoned to someone else.
Click to expand...
That can literally be applied to any player this season. Zlatan or otherwise - Zlatan himself has not been spared from the "wasteful" argument. Despite his contributions.
 
Ashley R1+O said:
Zlatan might have the numbers, but his effect on the team can wax and wane. Like any other footballer in our team (hell every football team ever I guess).
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, don't understand. Why mention it in the first place if you think this happens to everyone?
 
Just thinking about Zlatan playing for us, the question marks around him before he played, the question marks around him now and his excellent goal record.

His age has been the obvious focal point of the question marks but in reality it's irrelevant. It's the same questions he's had throughout his entire career. People doubting his ability to do it in the big games, do it in a certain league, over the course of a season, without a Di Maria feeding him balls... ect ect.

He's just carrying on as he always has.
 
whatwha said:
And how many hundreds or thousands of footballers have not managed the same despite looking after themselves? You just assume that everyone who couldn't continue wasn't doing everything to stay fit.
Click to expand...

See, I have no problem with you disagreeing with me. But thats when you give actual examples to prove your point.
 
Sylar said:
See, I have no problem with you disagreeing with me. But thats when you give actual examples to prove your point.
Click to expand...

To be fair you can name probably 20 well-maintained top class players in the last 10 years? (Giggs, Scholes, Pirlo, etc?)

Say on average a Football team changes half its 25 man squad every 2.5 years you maybe speaking of 60 different players to play in a team over 10 years. Let's then assume we only look at top 6 clubs that's around 360 players over 10 years. Let's then look at French, German, English, Italian and Spanish league only, we have 1800 players. 20 players, if you can even name them out of 1800 seem like statistical outliers.
 
RedMaestro said:
I'm sorry, don't understand. Why mention it in the first place if you think this happens to everyone?
Click to expand...
It was the very essence of @All 3 United's line of discussion when he makes the comments below.
All 3 United said:
I will be honest, I am not a fan of Zlatan, probably because I prefer free flowing, dynamic attacking football and I feel Zlatan prevents that somewhat. Don't get me wrong he's scored some important goals (and missed some absolute sitters) but his general involvement during the build up play tends to result in us losing the ball or slowing down the attack.
Click to expand...
The stats can quite clearly point to the fact that he has been a phenomenon, there is no denying that. But when this user passes judgement and states his/her opinion given his/her own 'eye test', they might see something that does not entirely fit the general over-encompassing narrative, hence the comments in bold.

I don't really see what is wrong with offering up a personal opinion. There is no real need for silly comments have to be made over and over, when the same rational line of football-thinking is applied to his comment regarding Rooney supposedly 'falling off a cliff' when he has put up a much better contribution in reduced minutes than he had achieved in the first six months of last season. It is an incorrect claim, regardless of the context.

Anyway, it doesn't have much to do with Zlatan so I will not drag it further off topic.
 
Ashley R1+O said:
It was the very essence of @All 3 United's line of discussion when he makes the comments below.

The stats can quite clearly point to the fact that he has been a phenomenon, there is no denying that. But when this user passes judgement and states his/her opinion given his/her own 'eye test', they might see something that does not entirely fit the general over-encompassing narrative, hence the comments in bold.

I don't really see what is wrong with offering up a personal opinion. There is no real need for silly comments have to be made over and over, when the same rational line of football-thinking is applied to his comment regarding Rooney supposedly 'falling off a cliff' when he has put up a much better contribution in reduced minutes than he had achieved in the first six months of last season. It is an incorrect claim, regardless of the context.

Anyway, it doesn't have much to do with Zlatan so I will not drag it further off topic.
Click to expand...

Are you still trying to compare the performances of Zlatan and Rooney this season?

Forgetting statistical output for a second he's been a huge distance better than Rooney in every facet of his game.
 
His detractors will repeat same all nonsense all the time.

His link up play isn't good. Which is wrong cause it's very good. Yet they made up their mind, maybe based on few games when he was on form and which were in the past.
He kills our free flow football or prevents it from happening. Another nonsense cause he, along with Pogba imo, is a most important player in our system. I'm sure Mourinho knew why he wants him and how to play him which is evident. We don't know what kind of free flow football we'd play without him or even if it would be free flow or even good.
Even when they admit he has been good in goal scoring department (not the build up play and link up play no way!) they always, always repeat how he has missed some sitters. Just that nobody forgets it and just that everybody knows their agenda.
As if there's a striker in the world football who doesn't sometimes miss a sitter.....

We can hear things like playing Rooney before him too and that statistics aren't everything. They're not but be sure to watch our games with clear eyes. Not with some prejudices before the game.
 
Why are you guys debating Zlatan's impact? He'll finish our highest scorer since Ronaldo. Two of his goals have been penalties. He's also provided a decent number of assists. And our team is quite evidently playing miles better than we've done at any point since Fergie. Zlatan's been a huge part of that, not something holding us back.

Last season our top scorer got 17 goals.
 
marjen said:
Why are you guys debating Zlatan's impact? He'll finish our highest scorer since Ronaldo. Two of his goals have been penalties. He's also provided a decent number of assists. And our team is quite evidently playing miles better than we've done at any point since Fergie. Zlatan's been a huge part of that, not something holding us back.

Last season our top scorer got 17 goals.
Click to expand...
Because he missed a couple of chances against Burnley and Stoke and some people are utterly obsessed about it and can't get over it.
 
Ixion said:
Because he missed a couple of chances against Burnley and Stoke and some people are utterly obsessed about it and can't get over it.
Click to expand...
Yes, very strange. As if any player in the world can score every chance they get. Besides, stats should only be looked at after the season and not just 1 or 2 matches. Also, I believe Aguero, van Persie and Kane have been close to the top of these lists in previous seasons.

A tweet from whoscored in 2015: Cristiano Ronaldo: Both scored (32) and missed (27) the most clear-cut chances in La Liga last season.

This tweet also from whoscored is new: Alexandre Lacazette: Missed more clear-cut chances (5) vs Dijon than any other player has in a match in Europe’s top 5 leagues this season.
 
Last edited:
Sylar said:
See, I have no problem with you disagreeing with me. But thats when you give actual examples to prove your point.
Click to expand...
:lol: You're too ridiculous. You're only making your argument because you're statistically illiterate. Instead of appreciating the fact I opened your eyes to the fuller picture, you now want concrete examples of professional athletes who have to throw in the towel at the highest level at 35 or younger despite taking good care of themselves? As if they run to the media with this shit. The stories that are highlighted are the exceptions, the 'inspiring' Tottis and Zanettis that carry on much longer than most. That doesn't mean they *did* so much more than the rest to defy aging. A much more likely explanation is that most of the variance can be attributed to genetics.
 
whatwha said:
you now want concrete examples of professional athletes who have to throw in the towel at the highest level at 35 or younger despite taking good care of themselves?
Click to expand...

Top / elite players? Yes please if its thats easy to do.
 
Sylar said:
Top / elite players? Yes please if its thats easy to do.
Click to expand...

There's literally hundreds. Most footballers retire around 35.

Ask yourself this. When naming players who've lasted longer why do the same six or players always get mentioned? You've done it yourself.
 
Dobbs said:
There's literally hundreds. Most footballers retire around 35.
Click to expand...

Which is fine. But how many of them would have the same lifestyle as say Zlatan, Ronaldo, etc? Thats why im asking for them to be named?
 
Sylar said:
Which is fine. But how many of them would have the same lifestyle as say Zlatan, Ronaldo, etc? Thats why im asking for them to be named?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how we're supposed to be aware of their exact lifestyles but is Beckham less of a professional than Totti or Pirlo? His career followed the usual path of a decline upto about 35. Roberto Carlos went back to Brazil at 35. Left Madrid at 33. Really there's loads. Most finish around 35 no matter how professional they've been. The guys you mentioned are rarities.

Zlatan is blessed with a great physique. His strength is something that won't dissappear for years. I think the way he plays helps as well. Picks and chooses his moments to be involved. Throw in a good level of professionalism and there you go.
 
Bit dodgy from the keeper but it's still a very good effort and most importantly, he steps up to get us out of a jam.

Tell you what, can't wait to see what these 'better strikers' are going to offer, if this is what an immobile, lazy one offers.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.