Yohan Cabaye

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Brwned said:
After his first 18 months you weren't calling him average, it's only after last season when he had a dip in form that you started calling him that. And now you've started calling him overrated for playing above his level this season.
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You're some lad for old quotes and yet you act as though you are going through your menstrual cycle when anyone does it to you. What have I said there that contradicts what I'm saying now? Is he a good player? Yes. Would I have taken him when he was few years younger and far cheaper when he moved from Lille? Yes. Would I take him now after seeing him on a far more regular basis for a massively inflated fee? No.

Fact is, our midfield has chronic problems and if we were to spend £20m on Cabaye, he would most likely be our main midfield signing for a-while. He's not good enough to be that player who is going to make a massive difference to our midfield. He would be a good squad player, but for the fee that would be involved, no thanks.

You're so tedious, Brwned, it's boring.
 
Sixpence said:
Competent is Jones or Giggs playing there. Cabaye is a natural centre mid with the perfect balance of defence and attack in his game. He'd walk into our current midfield and stand out a mile. We need to stop this snobbery just because he plays for Newcastle and sign what is a very good player to improve us. We aren't going to get Gundogan, Fabregas etc. Time to live in the real world.
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A) Giggs and Jones in midfield isn't competent at our level, it's very poor. We're a CL team, not Fulham.
B) Fine, let's say we're not going to get Fabregas or Gundogan. That doesn't suddenly make Cabaye the answer. A lot of players would be an improvement over what we have, that doesn't mean just any of them will do.

Sixpence said:
This season we will be yes as 4th is the aim now.

To address your other point, we have rarely signed the very best elite players in the world over the past 20 years or so. They've always gone to Barca, Real and now City or Bayern. It's always been about the team being greater than individual players.
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C) No, 4th isn't the aim. The aim is to keep winning titles over the next several seasons. We're looking for players who will raise us back to that standard, not players who will consolidate our current position. Short term thinking isn't helpful.
D) You're right in a way, we often develop top class players rather than signing them. Nobody is going to develop Cabaye into a top class player though, thus he isn't what we need. A player of his level simply isn't good enough at this stage, we're too far beyond that point.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Signing world beaters is overrated. Recently Bayern signed Javi Martinez, Dante and Mandzukic and morphed into the best team in the world by some distance....Give me the Cabaye's of this world any day of the week if they are the solution to our problems and make us a peak functioning team.
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Martinez was a level above Cabaye before he signed for Bayern. Hence why they spunked so much cash to get him.
 
lysglimt said:
the only problem I see with Cabaye is his age - but with our current very young squad, that could actually prove to be an advantage. And imagine having a central midfielder who actually scores goals.
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Our squad isn't very young; in fact we have several important players on the wrong side of thirty or getting close to it.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Signing world beaters is overrated. Recently Bayern signed Javi Martinez, Dante and Mandzukic and morphed into the best team in the world by some distance....Give me the Cabaye's of this world any day of the week if they are the solution to our problems and make us a peak functioning team.
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Martinez was extremely sought after. Barcelona wanted him along with several other clubs and he cost Bayern an arm and a leg.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Signing world beaters is overrated. Recently Bayern signed Javi Martinez, Dante and Mandzukic and morphed into the best team in the world by some distance....Give me the Cabaye's of this world any day of the week if they are the solution to our problems and make us a peak functioning team.
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Agreed but I also agree with Barney, Martinez was pretty highly rated by most at the time. But yes, we have to look past the name and look at what they can bring the team.
 
He's no Jack Colback.

Seriously, I don't think he'd suddenly make us a better team. He'd be a slight upgrade on Cleverley. Far too costly when there are other options that would lift us much more for slightly more money.
 
marjen said:
He's no Jack Colback.

Seriously, I don't think he'd suddenly make us a better team. He'd be a slight upgrade on Cleverley. Far too costly when there are other options that would lift us much more for slightly more money.
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Realistic signings though? Especially in January?
 
Eric'sCollar said:
Realistic signings though? Especially in January?
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Very, very difficult to say.

It's our own fault. Neglecting an area of the pitch for five years tend to let other teams on to our desperation. Should've sorted it three years ago at least, now it's very, very difficult and with no Fergie to compensate for our obvious weakness we're fighting it out for 4th.
 
Eric'sCollar said:
Realistic signings though? Especially in January?
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It's the sort of signing you'd expect and maybe welcome in January. Not someone to turn our midfield around, but certainly a good player to help see us through to the summer when the real task begins. Except that Moyes won't do it because the daft bastard went and spent the 'a midfielder from a mid-to-upper-table PL club' fund on effing Fellaini. Cabaye would have been a much better purchase for a similar price. He won't try the same tactic again because it'll feel like throwing good money after bad.
 
I just hope we don't forget just how important this window can be. Yeh, we want to push for the title until the very last minute but we have to be honest, we need to to do everything we can do to get 4th. It won't be a Leeds disaster if we miss out but we need to be in the Champions League, so while the summer deals might be a little better and we can hopefully sign the highest quality, adding to the squad now is key in my opinion.

So if that means we can get a player like Cabaye, I think we need to do so. Again, I don't want to pay over the odds but given the situation, I think the club will be forced into paying over the odds to make sure the job is done.
 
marjen said:
He's no Jack Colback.

Seriously, I don't think he'd suddenly make us a better team. He'd be a slight upgrade on Cleverley. Far too costly when there are other options that would lift us much more for slightly more money.
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:lol: poor Fiskey.

On a serious note, I am warming to the idea of Cabaye although I'm not sure how seriously we've actually been linked with him in the first place.
 
Eric'sCollar said:
So if that means we can get a player like Cabaye, I think we need to do so. Again, I don't want to pay over the odds but given the situation, I think the club will be forced into paying over the odds to make sure the job is done.
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Unfortunately, as a top team in dire need of reinforcements, particularly in one key area, we are going to have to pay over the odds. There's no two ways about it. Even top teams who are already chock full of world-class talent have to pay over the odds - look at the sort of heavyweight fees Bayern have been dishing out for players over the last few seasons. So when it's obvious that you're getting desperate, you're even more of a cash-cow for the selling clubs.
 
Brightonian said:
It's the sort of signing you'd expect and maybe welcome in January. Not someone to turn our midfield around, but certainly a good player to help see us through to the summer when the real task begins. Except that Moyes won't do it because the daft bastard went and spent the 'a midfielder from a mid-to-upper-table PL club' fund on effing Fellaini. Cabaye would have been a much better purchase for a similar price. He won't try the same tactic again because it'll feel like throwing good money after bad.
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Haha I have the same view.
 
I'd be really surprised if Cabaye would have cost a similar amount to Fellaini. Arsenal offered a pittance and he was ready to leave, if we just put in a fairer offer than Arsenal did I think Newcastle would have been willing to talk
 
Cabaye would probably have been a cheaper and better buy than Fellaini (though I'm sure some posters would have complained about his lack of steel if we'd gone for him instead).

Problem is we have Fellaini now and (along with Cleverley) he's taking up the place we would have had for Cabaye. If we sign Cabaye now it seems like he'll be taking the place in the squad that should be reserved for a higher calibre of player.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Martinez was extremely sought after. Barcelona wanted him along with several other clubs and he cost Bayern an arm and a leg.
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Extremely sought after and world beater are not the same thing. Fabregas and RVP for example are world beaters. Javi Martinez was just another Thiago Alacantara. A potentially great signing.

Signing a Cabaye would be similar to the type of signing Carrick was for United in 2007. Not a world beater signing but just what the doctor recommended. The type of player who can build a platform for a team to sign, and make shine, world beating magicians further upfield...
 
sullydnl said:
Cabaye would probably have been a cheaper and better buy than Fellaini (though I'm sure some posters would have complained about his lack of steel if we'd gone for him instead).

Problem is we have Fellaini now and (along with Cleverley) he's taking up the place we would have had for Cabaye. If we sign Cabaye now it seems like he'll be taking the place in the squad that should be reserved for a higher calibre of player.
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That ''higher calibre of player'' place is already being occupied by Giggs, Anderson and Cleverley. The 3 players who are supposed to be our creative go to men in midfield. A semi retired pro, another that lacks self belief and another that can't consistently bring his talent to bear in football matches...
 
Do people actually focus on him when he plays or do they just check out highlights? He's quite simply not good enough for us.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
That ''higher calibre of player'' place is already being occupied by Giggs, Anderson and Cleverley. The 3 players who are supposed to be our creative go to men in midfield. A semi retired pro, another that lacks self belief and another that can't consistently bring his talent to bear in football matches...
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I'm already assuming that Giggs and Anderson will be out of the equation next season. Cleverley probably isn't going anywhere though and neither is Fellaini. Plus Fletcher now looks more and more like a real option for next season. We don't have all that much room for cms unless Moyes gets quite ruthless.

Your Cabaye/Carrick comparison above is slightly off. When Carrick was signed we were able to pair him with Scholes, a genuine top class player. Right now we still have Carrick, it's the other half of that jigsaw we need. Cabaye won't be the missing piece of the puzzle in the same way.

All of that assumes we're trying to get our midfield back to the standard we were at the last time we won the CL. It's important to remember that cm was still the weakest part of that team, as our defence and attack were both outstanding.
 
I think if we were going to sign one midfielder I would have preferred him to Fellaini, in fairness though we were going for other creative players who were either better than him or had the ability to be better than him in the summer, where as Fellaini has been brought to be a defensive option in the middle.

I think we all agree that we need a top class midfielder at least to really compete in the CL but in terms of the league someone like Cabaye as an option, and playing with Carrick would give us a much stronger midfield than we typically put out. Cabaye's range of passing and willingness to make things happen is better than anyone else we have there bar Carrick and Giggs on his day. Additionally he's happy to get stuck in.

When compared to the other midfields the top teams put out, Lampard- Ramires-Oscar, Arteta- Ramsey- Ozil, Toure- Fernandinho- Silva, than us being able to put out Carrick- Cabaye- Rooney, for me would be as strong as any of them, with City probably having the edge due to Toure's power.

Signing Cabaye wouldn't have pushed us on in europe much but for me would have given us a much better chance to retain the title which is a start. That said you can't say how he would have adapted, some people might not believe it's a factor but as you can see with Fellaini and Kagawa sometimes it can take a while to really settle in to a new club. In fairness there probably isn't much between Cabaye and Fellaini, I think for our purposes Cabaye would have given us more, but in truth if Fellaini played to his best than we would likely be doing a lot better as well.
 
So what is going to happen in January, do we sign someone to make sure we get in the Top 4 of not. What happens if we don't get in the Top 4, will we lose out to the clubs in the Top 4? Will players chose us over a London club in the Top 4? Will our name make players want to play for us anyway or are will we have to pay ridiculous wages to persuade a top player to come to us?
 
sullydnl said:
I'm already assuming that Giggs and Anderson will be out of the equation next season. Cleverley probably isn't going anywhere though and neither is Fellaini. Plus Fletcher now looks more and more like a real option for next season. We don't have all that much room for cms unless Moyes gets quite ruthless.

Your Cabaye/Carrick comparison above is slightly off. When Carrick was signed we were able to pair him with Scholes, a genuine top class player. Right now we still have Carrick, it's the other half of that jigsaw we need. Cabaye won't be the missing piece of the puzzle in the same way.....
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That is because having player like him alongside Carrick, who can actually create things at an above average level can allow us firstly to function properly, for we have very good wingers and a world class attack, or secondly, to sign world beaters for our wings to add to our already stellar forward line.

Don't for get the year we won the champions league with CR7 around it was Fletcher and Carrick who were paired together more often than not yet see where it got us. That is why having world beaters in midfield is not the only way to get ahead...The main thing is to have a team unit from back to front that can beat up on any opposition due to its strength functioning at optimum capacity. Personally I don't believe we only need a world beater creative player to place alongside Carrick to be a great side again. We just need a consistent, 7/10 creative player. We had that in 2007/2008 that is why even without a world beating midfield we made a champions league final and won the league at home....for the midfield was able to give competent platform for Tevez, CR7 and Rooney to shine.

sullydnl said:
All of that assumes we're trying to get our midfield back to the standard we were at the last time we won the CL. It's important to remember that cm was still the weakest part of that team, as our defence and attack were both outstanding.
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Currently our strike force is already outstanding. Our wings are pretty good if we can get especially Kagawa and Nani functioning at optimum capacity and our defence is getting better all the time. What really holds us back right now is a lack of consistent creativity in center midfield. More than a lack of a world beater there. I also don't believe chasing after world beaters who we might never convince to come is the ideal solution to get over such a hurdle.

I believe rather that players in the Cabaye (on the lower end) or Herrara (on the higher end) category of such player, if they are super consistent would suit our needs way better. Thus even a Cabaye wouldn't be such a bad idea as a target. But there are better options out there in the same bracket.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
That is because having player like him alongside Carrick, who can actually create things at an above average level can allow us firstly to function properly, for we have very good wingers and a world class attack, or secondly, to sign world beaters for our wings to add to our already stellar forward line.

Don't for get the year we won the champions league with CR7 around it was Fletcher and Carrick who were paired together more often than not yet see where it got us. That is why having world beaters in midfield is not the only way to get ahead...The main thing is to have a team unit from back to front that can beat up on any opposition due to its strength functioning at optimum capacity. Personally I don't believe we only need a world beater creative player to place alongside Carrick to be a great side again. We just need a consistent, 7/10 creative player. We had that in 2007/2008 that is why even without a world beating midfield we made a champions league final and won the league at home....for the midfield was able to give competent platform for Tevez, CR7 and Rooney to shine.

Currently our strike force is already outstanding. Our wings are pretty good if we can get especially Kagawa and Nani functioning at optimum capacity and our defence is getting better all the time. What really holds us back right now is a lack of consistent creativity in center midfield. More than a lack of a world beater there. I also don't believe chasing after world beaters who we might never convince to come is the ideal solution to get over such a hurdle.

I believe rather that players in the Cabaye (on the lower end) or Herrara (on the higher end) category of such player, if they are super consistent would suit our needs way better. Thus even a Cabaye wouldn't be such a bad idea as a target. But there are better options out there in the same bracket.
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So basically you're saying we don't necessarily need a top class midfield, just one that allows the other top class areas of our team to function properly? In a similar way to how Fletcher and Carrick allowed our otherwise brilliant team to win the CL?

I'd agree with that if the rest of our current team was as good as that CL winning team. The truth is we've become weaker in almost every position since then. Out of curiosity, how many of our current players do you think would have got into that CL winning side? I can't see many.

Our defence simply isn't as good as it was then. Our wings are weak too, I think. We've been waiting for Nani to fulfil his potential for too long at this stage, he can't be relied on. Kagawa isn't a winger and still hasn't found his place here. Our strikers are obviously excellent but RvP's fitness may become an issue and there are no guarantees Rooney is going to stay. I think we'll have to strengthen those positions a lot before they're at the stage where they can carry a functional midfield as they did when we won the CL.

So, if we're going to have to bring in top quality anyway, why not in midfield? Why not aim for a team that's more balanced than that 08 team. If we just aim for a functional midfield (as in 08) then it puts massive pressure on us to be outsanding in every other area of the pitch (as we were in 08).

Beyond that, it might be misleading to compare ourself with that one team. Why not compare ourselves to a team like the current Bayern one? They're the benchmark atm, after all. Look and the strength and depth they have across their team (particularly if they sign Lewandowski). How do you think our team (with Cabaye and Carrick in cm) would compare with theirs? Personally, I think we'd still be a long, long way from being near their level.
 
Pexbo said:
Martinez was a level above Cabaye before he signed for Bayern. Hence why they spunked so much cash to get him.
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Cabaye would be more similar to Mandzukic or Dante - experienced, reliable, proven quality from within the league. No one can seriously argue that Mandzukic is a top class player that brought them closer to Barcelona in terms of individual quality, but he played a part in allowing them to effectively employ the system they wanted to make them a stronger team as a whole. Buying him didn't stop them from trying to go for Lewandowski either, it just allowed them to improve the team in the short term and improve the squad in the long term. That's what some people could see Cabaye doing.
 
Brwned said:
Cabaye would be more similar to Mandzukic or Dante - experienced, reliable, proven quality from within the league. No one can seriously argue that Mandzukic is a top class player that brought them closer to Barcelona in terms of individual quality, but he played a part in allowing them to effectively employ the system they wanted to make them a stronger team as a whole. Buying him didn't stop them from trying to go for Lewandowski either, it just allowed them to improve the team in the short term and improve the squad in the long term. That's what some people could see Cabaye doing.
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Makes sense, certainly. There's a potential difference, though. We're likely to pay an indecent amount of moolah for the fecker. Unlike Bayern we can't bring in players in that category without overpaying* - especially when we're talking about a midfielder.

* He plays for the Toon, which is bad for us in all sorts of ways.
 
Yep, Mandzukic cost around 13m and Dante was less than half that. If Cabaye was available for those prices it might be more tempting. We'd probably have to pay around 20m though, wouldn't we?
 
Unfortunately the price is a big issue and in my opinion, will prevent this deal happening in January.

The thing is though, we don't decide the fees, a player is worth what a club wants for him. And we are in a position where we need to buy. So, in an ideal world, we could look for a quality player at a good price but they are few and far between these days. That's why I think it's vital that we continue to produce players because if you can always have 5 or 6 graduates in and around your team, it probably saves you around 100m a team in terms of transfer fees.

Overall, I would love Cabaye at United, the highest I would go is 20m (absolute max) and who knows what we will get for players leaving like Anderson etc. But overall, I think he will stay or even head back to France to PSG.
 
I don't think he'd be a bad buy for £15-20m. The unfortunate thing is that we should have bought him instead of a Fellaini in the Summer, not as well as. I don't think Newcastle would be against selling hime or that price range, especially if he kicked up a fuss again. They were just nonplussed with Arsenal's £10m bid.
 
LR7 said:
I don't think he'd be a bad buy for £15-20m. The unfortunate thing is that we should have bought him instead of a Fellaini in the Summer, not as well as. I don't think Newcastle would be against selling hime or that price range, especially if he kicked up a fuss again. They were just nonplussed with Arsenal's £10m bid.
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We could offer them Fellaini as part of the deal? Although, that might be more of an insult.
 
Goooose said:
We could offer them Fellaini as part of the deal? Although, that might be more of an insult.
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Worth a punt! I would be happy if we got rid tbh, I just don't think Moyes sees him as someone he can sell given how much we paid for him. He seems to have a faith I don't share that he'll come good here.
 
Anyone think Anderson would move the other way? I am not one for talking about these player + cash deals, 9 times out of 10 they are just talk and never happen but we have seen players move from United to Newcastle before. Like for like players in terms of their position.

Could add some weight to a possible deal.
 
Eric'sCollar said:
Anyone think Anderson would move the other way? I am not one for talking about these player + cash deals, 9 times out of 10 they are just talk and never happen but we have seen players move from United to Newcastle before. Like for like players in terms of their position.

Could add some weight to a possible deal.
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zing.
 
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