Exactly.
Yohan Cabaye
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Exactly.
Who the hell is "X" ? How can you make conclusion about the potential quality of the midfield when you have an unknown player ?
I'm assuming X is one of the dream signings everyone obviously wants, one who could compete with the top cms in other top European teams. A proper Scholes replacement, basically.
OK, so if Cabaye is not an ideal signature right now then we should be looking for Y (another dream signing ) so that our midfield options would be better than "mediocre" ? Either that or our poor scouts will have to pull some rabbits out of their hats. It's not gonna be easy to sign a top class CM, never mind two.
Nah, Y doesn't have to be another dream signing. Just someone who could actually force Carrick to compete for his place beside Mr.X. Would it really be that hard to find a player who's as good as Carrick or at least has the potential to reach that level? I don't think Cabaye is quite there, I'd take Carrick over him any time, personally.
Even if we signed Cabaye + X, I still don't think our midfield would be as good as it was the last time we won the CL. Plus even then midfield was probably the weakest part of our team. It'd be great to at least get back to that level though.
Players change. Some grow old, some improve and a good number of players don't accept the bench and leave. Carrick is 32 years old so we cannot exclude that we'll soon start seeing signs of decline. Fellaini and Cleverley must either improve quickly or else they stay at a top club may soon be over.
There are 3-4 clubs in the world who have the financial depth to get nearly any player they want. The rest must take risks. Take Juventus as an example. Marchisio was a homegrown talent who returned to Juventus after a good season at Empoli. There were no guarantees that he would turn that good. Pirlo was an old player who left AC Milan after they didn't want to risk giving him a 2 year contract. Vidal was a promising talent who did very well at Leverkusen and Pogba was an unexperienced kid who couldn't get enough games at a team with stars such as Ando and Cleverley. None of these players were even close to what Fabregas is nowadays. Yet they shaped a CM which is much stronger then ours.
Cabaye may turn into a Fellaini/Ando mark 2 or else he can become like Carrick who came as a pretty underrated player only to improve and became crucial for us.
There aren't many options out there, a player that could compete with Carrick, I ain't no scout obviously but a midfielder of Carrick's style and ability who will be affordable seems difficult for a club like Utd.
Its not about options. United had always developed their own midfielders irrespective on whether they were homegrown talent (ex Scholes) or not (ex Carrick and Keane). The only finished product we brought in was JSV and it didn't turned great.
I can't understand why we're so reluctant to do that now. Its seems we either go for world class player or we stick to one of Fergie's or Moyes own (who are mostly crap). I promise to god anyone saying the 'no one can replace Paul Scholes' phrase will get a kick in the teeth.
He's more viable certainly, and there's nothing suggesting he wouldn't come here. But I can't see it for a number of reasons. Among them, Germans seeing Munich as the pinnacle, the fee potentially being 40m+, possible interest from other clubs such as Madrid, Barca, City, Chelsea, PSG and Bayern.
And unless he has a release clause it would take him throwing a massive stressy just to make the deal possible, since I can see Dortmund putting a massive fence round him. These things don't scream 'Manchester United signing'.
Just because he's more viable that doesn't mean he'll end up here. That's why we need to act quickly and wisely + we need to have 3-4 other realistic options in mind. Wasting time on players like Fabregas is, erm, stupid
Hang on, that's exactly what I said in the first place.
Wasting time on Fabregas was daft though. I reckon we seemed to think Barca were playing hard to get or something. For me missing out on Thiago was worse.
So it seems like there's two camps with opposing viewpoints on what's needed and they seem to be talking past each other.
Cabaye is the answer if you want a very, very good midfielder at the top of his game for the next 3 or so years. Objectively speaking you've been winning a lot with worse central midfield options than him for a while now. He'd be a great short term addition, better than anyone else there for you and will definitely help you win things. He's a proven quantity in the league and IMO would adapt to your team well. Very little risk involved with this purchase. And, in this toon fan's opinion, he still has a little room to improve with better teammates/coaching.
However, he isn't the answer if you want a world class CM at a tender age who'll give you years and drive the whole team. There may be a few out there, and yes you should also be going for them before the likes of City/Real/Chelsea snap them up.
Personally I think you should go for both. If it has to be one or the other ... well, that's really hard to say.
Cabaye is the answer if you want a very, very good midfielder at the top of his game for the next 3 or so years. Objectively speaking you've been winning a lot with worse central midfield options than him for a while now. He'd be a great short term addition, better than anyone else there for you and will definitely help you win things. He's a proven quantity in the league and IMO would adapt to your team well. Very little risk involved with this purchase. And, in this toon fan's opinion, he still has a little room to improve with better teammates/coaching.
However, he isn't the answer if you want a world class CM at a tender age who'll give you years and drive the whole team. There may be a few out there, and yes you should also be going for them before the likes of City/Real/Chelsea snap them up.
Personally I think you should go for both. If it has to be one or the other ... well, that's really hard to say.
Agree that we'll probably need to take a risk on someone, I'm just not convinced that Cabaye is the player to take the risk on. Don't get me wrong, he's a very good player. I just don't see him getting to the level Carrick was at last season, for example. Maybe I'm wrong but I'd hope we could find a player with a higher celing to try and develop into the player we want.
I think The Box is right, we'd ideally go for one proven top class talent and another player we can mould into what we want. Is Cabaye really the best option available for that second role? I can't see him developing all that much beyond where he's at now.
Its so hard to know what's right for us and what's wrong. JSV was the second most rated playmaker in the world (second only to a certain Zidane). He had both vision and skill. However his inability to adapt to the more physical and high tempo British game ended up ruining his career in England. I remember him complaining that in the EPL a playmaker need to actually drop deep and tackle. That was something he never did before.
Which leads us to Carrick, a player who is hardly a world beater but who did very well with us. This fact is food for thought. Maybe what we need to do is to stop running after names or player with exceptional skills in certain areas of their game (we can't afford them either) and aim for players who actually have the skills that we need.
What do we need? In my opinion we need a midfielder whose pretty mobile (which would compensate for Fellaini/Carrick lack of mobility), whose a great passer of the ball and whose got vision. Someone who can drop deep and tackle if needed. Cabaye is not Fabregas but he does tick all the right boxes.
I know that my argument is somehow simplistic. Success and failure are determined by others stuff which include character and LUCK. However we need to start from somewhere.
For those of you who would rather see us go for a top class talent over Cabaye, are there any realistic targets you have in mind? Genuinely want to hear some opinions. Expecting Vidal and Gündoğan responses, who aren't realistic for us in my opinion.
It's hard to say who's realistic though, isn't it? Would we have thought we were going to sign RvP even a few months before we did? If there are no top midfielders available then that's fair enough. I find it hard to believe that one of the very biggest clubs in the world couldn't attract even one top midfielder though, at least if we're willing to commit enough money to the cause.
If it is impossible then we should at least try for a player with the potential to become one of the very best, like we do in other positions. We invested money in young talent like Rooney, Ronaldo, De Gea, Jones, etc. All of whom at least had the potential to be brilliant. I'd prefer us to take a risk on exceptional talent like that than settle for average players who'll do a job now. We have enough players who'll do a job, it's time to be ambitious.
Agree in part with purchasing a player with the potential to be top class, just think we desperately need a ready made player for the midfield.
I honestly don't see any top quality midfielders who'd be realistic targets for us. Herrera and Cabaye seems our level at the moment, and we refused to meet Bilbao's valuation for Herrera.
Better than Fellaini and Cleverley, but not wha we need. If we sign a great midfielder and Cabaye as the second one, then maybe yes, but it will be utterly depressing (see Fellaini) if he is the midfielder who is supposed to improve our midfield.
If there would have been a midfielder outside of England so we can look at them, but unfortunately Germany and Spain are producing only shit players nowadays.
If there would have been a midfielder outside of England so we can look at them, but unfortunately Germany and Spain are producing only shit players nowadays.
Vidal completely unrealistic. Gundogan more possible. Matic very possible.
Matuidi on a free this summer, koke available for the right money. There's plenty to choose from....problem is they all cost money. Matic and Koke would instantly transform this team
Koke I'd love. But knowing United we'd find a way to make a balls of any possible deal for him.
It's going to be interesting to see how he does against our inferior midfielders at the weekend.
O shut up... He's far more realistic than Vidal or Fabregas.
Cabaye is more realistic than Vidal or Gundogan. Why would they want leave Juventus or Dortmund and why would the said clubs want to let them go? We are not known for making tempting £35+ million offers. However with Cabaye PSG are said to be interested in him. Woodward will have to make very competitive offer if he wants both Mike Ashley and Cabaye interested. Newcastle's will be looking for a profit + enough money for another cheap Frenchman to replace him.
Not at all, I'd say we have an equally unlikely chance of getting Vidal/ Marchisio/ Gundogan, then you have the 'even rarer', such as Fabregas, Iniesta etc... For me Cabaye is slightly more attainable than all
This is the problem. Most every single person in Europe with even a passing fancy for football knows this, so getting a good deal on a player becomes near impossible.
Also, seems Carrick is being quite underrated here, I doubt it'd be that easy to just roll up a couple of midfielders that are of his quality(never mind available).
Well a club of out stature and financial clout can always get Leon Osman unless Chelsea or City want him!! Basically there's enough midfielders for us to chose from and unless they play for Madrid or Barca United will be a step in a higher direction.
Gundogan and Koke would be ideal for me. If not (I think Koke could happen, Gundogan less so), Cabaye is certainly a player who would give us depth and quality in midfield, as long as we also signed another midfielder who close to world class, or if not, has potential to be world class.
Then surely we just have to accept that we're not going to get a good deal? Overpaying for a player isn't the end of the world if they're the right player. We overpaid for Carrick when we signed him but it doesn't seem that way in hindsight as he's been such a success.
As for underrating Carrick, I don't think we are. Top clubs have to able able to sign midfielders of his quality when needed, otherwise they don't stay top clubs. In fact, a lot of our rivals have midfielders who are better than Carrick or have the potential to be. Hell, the likes of Bayern and Barca have a few. It really shouldn't be this much of a struggle for us. After all, we've always managed to find top players in every other position (players who are at a higher level than Carrick is in his).
I'd have absolutely no problem with overpaying. The fans can accept all the overpaying all they like, Moyes probably doesn't give much of a feck about overpaying. Woody and the Glazer gang though, I don't think they fancy it much.
Certainly out there, but the way some of the posts read above, buying a couple of Carrick equivalents isn't much different to going down the local and picking up a six pack of beer.
It is a puzzle though, it's not going to be ridiculously easy, but it should certainly be very possible, especially for a club of our stature. As you say, we do it across the rest of the pitch.
Never really wanted Cabaye, it was nothing against him, just had my attention elsewhere. However, with the possible name being thrown about, I actually would welcome Cabaye in January. Whether that is realistic or not, I don't know and I would worry about the price. But he is a solid midfielder and the more I watch him could prove a smart signing in the event that we offload Anderson, possibly Fletcher at some stage and inevitably Giggs.
So I'm not as hesitant as I first was. Still have no idea if there is anything in it though.
So I'm not as hesitant as I first was. Still have no idea if there is anything in it though.
No no no no no no
Liverpool should be signing Yohan Cabaye, he's decent enough but we've already pissed away a 28m fee and can ill afford to get it wrong again.
I was all for signing a stop gap midfielder just to see us finish the season well but on reflection we need to look at improving the squad more dramatically, an upgrade Cabaye maybe but not significantly.
I would rather see us load our wage bill with talents that push us towards Europes elite and as good a player he is I don't think Yohan fits that bill.
Did you miss the part where I said I would worry about the price?
It's what doesn't make it straight forward, I don't know what type of fee he would go for, so I said I don't know if it is realistic, in January, I can't see us spending over 15m on a player and after the Fellaini signing, that's probably right.
Surely if there was ever a time to spend big money it's now? Our squad is currently the poorest it has been in years and we have a new manager who'll need all the help he can get. If the money we spent on Fellaini stops us from spending what's needed on better players then we've screwed up twice as bad. We won't improve without spending big money, so going for Cabaye simply because he's a bargain would be a very, very, very bad sign.
Well that's not true. We have signed some very good players who have given us great service for money that wouldn't have been described as big money at the time. Sure, we need one or two top class players and they are going to cost a fair bit but we can improve with some good, smart signings.
United has made a real habit out of that in recent times.
Okay, I'll rephrase. We can improve on what we have without spending big money. However, we're extremely unlikely to reach the level we're aiming for if we refuse to match the kind of money our rivals are willing to spend. As such, choosing Cabaye over better options simply because he's cheap would indeed be a very, very, very bad sign. It would indicate that, despite the obvious weakness of the squad and the difficult situation our new manager is in, we're going to continue to spend less than is required to maintain a dominant, top class team.
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