That's what I'm getting at, it may not be a case of us selling him, it may be a case of him wanting to leave. For example if we bought Cabaye and a 'Fabregas' type player that would leave Cleverley with very little playing time next season, he wouldn't be happy with that especially if he has international ambitions.
Yohan Cabaye
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Cleverley will be a United player for at least the next 2/3 years. He'll either improve or get fed up being a benchwarmer and want out.
There is no doubt at all though that Cabaye would walk into the side.
There is no doubt at all though that Cabaye would walk into the side.
feck sake, you still using this shitty flawed logic? He's an excellent midfielder and an improvement on every midfielder bar Carrick and as someone else has stated, he has a lot of facets of his game that are superior to Carrick.
He doesn't need to prove himself, he proved himself with an extremely impressive debut season in the Premier League, last season he was blighted by injuries, but he's been back to his best this season, while not forgetting that he's a main fixture in the France national team.
He's a very ideal fit for our midfield given his range of passing and all-round ability defensively and offensively - which is very important with a two man midfield and our emphasis on wingplay - and he would quite possibly come at a very reasonable price. I would certainly be all for his signing in January.
Stop being so ignorant and blinded by the fact he plays for a 'lesser side' and watch Newcastle play on a regular basis and then you will hopefully see what a vast improvement he is on Cleverley, Fellaini and Anderson. If you can't then you are quite frankly deluded.
You want to make a bet with me
He's not very useful at the moment though is he, and hasn't been for some time.
I think that's a harsh assessment, hes not the solution to our midfield but he's done a job. Home grown talent has a lot of uses, it gives the youth coming through sight that they'll get a chance and if they don't work out they save us a fortune on back up. Cleverley is a squad player with potential and unless we get another youth player coming through we'd be stupid to push him away. We simply aren't going to replace Cleverley until he wants to leave or we others come through.
Expecting us to go out and sign 3 midfielders some of which will only replace our squad players is absurd. There's a reason Anderson is still here despite him never being a success, transfer funds are better spent elsewhere.
It remains to be seen whether Powell will be dropped deeper into central midfield, but his impressive form for Wigan probably warrants a squad role more so than Cleverley who has been poor for the best part of a year.
Of course it isn't as straight-forward as that with Cleverley being the type of player who is very useful as a squad player - when he plays well - and the best thing for Powell at the moment is continuity in the first team, which he's getting at Wigan.
Still, there's a 'homegrown' player who has more potential and ability than Powell, while also in a rich vein of form. Homegrown or not, Cleverley's poor form shouldn't automatically warrant a place at United. I don't want him to leave, but he really needs to start performing soon otherwise I wouldn't be adverse to us letting him go, as I'm sure a lot of United fans won't.
That's more or less what I've said, only in a more direct way. We need him to do more than a job, it's not good when a 40 year old winger and a centre back is getting picked in midfield before him. I like Cleverley, that doesn't mean that I won't give an honest opinion on him.
Indeed they do, we currently have Evans, Januzaj and Rafael as regulars in the starting 11. All these players came through our youth system. I don't think we need to keep Cleverley to give our youth players hope, the history of the club shows that.
You go on to say they it saves us a fortune, if we keep him around and he contributes very little, will he not be costing the club a fortune?
So how long are we to give his potential? Another 2-3 seasons. Barkley, Ramsey, Wilshire, Pogba, these players have long overtaken Cleverley.
We constantly complain about our midfield yet some want to keep one if our weakest players.
Absurd, really? This is the part of the post that confuses me if I'm honest.
You don't think midfield is our weakest area?
How long does he have left on his contract? I think newcastle rejected a 10-15m bid from arsenal last summer, dont see him being let go for less than that in Jan.
I think it was £10m from Arsenal and Pardew wasn't insisting he wouldn't be sold, he just said Arsenal need to raise their bid iirc. I reckon we could get him for £15-20m and he'd be worth it imo. Would strengthen our first eleven and that's the important thing.
Well, the club spend near 30 million on Fellaini, so unless Cabaye begins to make noises about wanting a move etc then I don't think Newcastle will be letting their best player go on the cheap. They did fleece Liverpool 35 mil for Carroll, but then again that was probably down to the stupidity of Dalglish and Comolli.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/8763244/
It only took a £10m bid from Arsenal for him to kick up a fuss and refuse to play for them so you never know. He seemed to be keen enough on a move here in the summer.
The only stumbling block is that there has been nothing to suggest we are genuinely interested. It's all fan speculation from what I can see.
I think Cabaye is a solid midfielder and is good at times. But no way is he good enough to dominate a midfield in europe. We don't need 'another' midfielder. That's the kind of business Tottenham is doing. Buy any player that has had good form during a season and hope it works out for the team.
Exactly my point. While Madrid take on Europe and blast hefty sums on the likes of Gundogan and Vidal, United fans clamour for Yohan Cabaye. And people then complain when our midfield gets torn to pieces. If the United board don't start showing some real ambition in the market in a financial sense then we'll fall further and further behind. "Who's available? " people cry. Almost any player is available if you make it so. If United can't afford to do this due to the debt then that's fine with me, but I would appreciate it if Ed Woodward stopped swanning about like Billy Big Cock. These next two windows will be very revealing as to where the club truly stands. If it's Cabaye and not big bids for the likes of Gundogan then Moyes has a tough task ahead of him.
Totally agree with that.
Btw, who took the fella who posts odd and confusing threads and replaced him with someone I agree on something with?
We don't need to dominate Europe's best (we won't be able to do that anyway). We need to be able to compete and stand a chance. I certainly won't feel confident goin into the last 16 with a midfield 2 including a centre back or a 40 year old. Gundogan would always choose Real over us of he gets the choice. It's just usually the way it is.
People saying we never sign world class players but think Cabaye is a signing we'd make are wrong. It's not often that we sign 27 year olds that aren't real top quality. The last player in that age range/quality that we signed was Ashley Young.
Fellaini is 26.
If PSG can sign players like Thiago Silva, Cavani and Ibrahimovic then I'm pretty sure that United can compete with the big boys in Europe provided the club spend significant outlay. I wouldn't expect this normally, but when the chief executive has, twice, given quotes about wanting the best players and being able to spend millions upon millions then I'll hold him to his word. Offer Gundogan a place in the United team, should signify his importance, offer him big wages, pay the fee that Dortmund want and anything is possible. At least you're giving it a genuine shot. If he chooses Madrid after that then fine, but it's ambition. It isn't curling up in a ball at the thought of paying over £30 million pounds.
Like I said, it's very likely all of Carrick, Fellaini, Cleverley and Fletcher will be here next season. Maybe even Giggs. The midfielder we need is not Yohan Cabaye.
Psg are owned by one of the richest men on the planet and these players mainly went for the money, not the competitiveness of the league. Wanting the best players and signing them are totally different things. We wanted Fabregas, yet put in some laughable bids for him.
With them midfield players you listed we are still incredibly weak in that area and will struggle to get a foothold on games even against the smaller sides in the league, like we have done for ages.
With them midfield players you listed we are still incredibly weak in that area and will struggle to get a foothold on games even against the smaller sides in the league, like we have done for ages.
I'd have him in a heartbeat. He is a technically sound player and has proven it on more than the odd occasion in the league. Type of player that we could sign down for the best years of his career - similar to the likes of Cazorla (Not in how he plays but the age he is signing at)
He's not an excellent midfielder. What absolute bollox.
If we take financial implications out of the picture id agree with you, i don't think ppl take into account the cost of replacing players. However, we cant bankroll such changes and personally id rather put the £10mil it would cost us to replace Cleverley towards a marquee signing instead. He's good enough for our backup position not every player needs to be potentially world class, ill only want rid if he's taken up space for someone with more potential.
Then again perhaps i just rate him higher than yourself. We need a sure thing in midfield, Cabaye would end up taking the last spot in midfield without being good enough imo. Id have rather had Cabaye than Fellaini though
Get Cabaye in at a reasonable price, sign Blaise Matuidi from PSG whose contract is up in the summer, and then coax Pogba back from Juve.
Then we'd basically have the France midfield.
Then we'd basically have the France midfield.
PSG are said to be interested in Pogba so ...
I hope we sign him in January. He's nothing special but a very good midfielder. He'll be a Arteta type signing for me. Very good player but not world class. The logic that he'll walk into our side is a bit flawed because many central midfielders would at present. But bring him in, in the January window. I think we could get him for around £15m(hopefully anyway).
I'm sure I remember comments from David Gill most summers that weren't a million miles away from that, and most summers (obviously except 2012, maybe 2007 before that) we were disappointed. It's just talk, likely designed to appeal to the customer base (the supporters) or maybe to try to talk-up the image of the club ahead of more sponsorship negotiations.
We can't compete with certain other clubs in the league because the Premier League is a proud sugar daddy league; we can't compete with the big boys in Europe owing to a combination of their current dominate standings in their leagues or in the Champions League, or the profile of their managers, their locations, or in some cases also having sugar daddies.
I'm not saying we shouldn't try to go for the top bracket player in the hope of finding someone with the values of an RVP, but we need to be prepared with realistic targets when we fail to get those players. Cabaye might be that level of player. He'd at least improve our current lot.
Who are these bigger boys in Europe you speak of? I can only think of Madrid and Barca(if they have the money). We will always attract the best players we just need to start offering the right money.
I'm a big fan of Cabaye, I'd love him here for a reasonable price. He'd absolutely stroll into our first team.
I was being sarcastic. Of course United can attract the very best players. To do that, however, the likes of Woodward need to stop plucking clichés out of their arses and actually invest serious money into the players, their wages and unfortunately, their agents. Do that, and the players will come to United in glee.
I didn't say "bigger", but I was just repeating the label used in the post I was replying to - personally I'd prefer something like "other European elite clubs" or along those lines. Outside the Spanish two, then Bayern are the other obvious elite, maybe arguably Juvi and Dortmund, and of course PSG and soon Monaco due to the sugar daddy factor that repeatedly pulls away players of which we have been linked.
My view is that we are around this elite level, but realistically our ability to sign in demand players compared to those above clubs is less, due to a variety of factors touched upon in my last post. This for me makes it entirely acceptable to look at players like Cabaye who might not be 'galacticos', as long as they make the team better.
Ahh... that makes more sense than someone crazy enough to believe something the chief exec has to say
Have I missed something?
Ahh... that makes more sense than someone crazy enough to believe something the chief exec has to say
Nah, I don't. I would have no problems if financial restrictions meant that Cabaye was our level. None at all. He's a fine player. It just gets a little tedious to read Woodward making such grand proclamations, as well as venting his disappointment in regards to our lack of players in the Balon D'or list as if we should have more guys in there. He's right, ideally there should be. But that will take some serious investment. The kind he boasted of in the Summer.
Those players were just examples to reinforce my point. And because they're comparisons to Cabaye. They're the kind of midfielders that I would expect Madrid to move heaven and earth for in the near future. Usually, these kind of 'sagas' end up in Madrid's favour.
Ah, so what you're saying is Madrid haven't "taken on Europe and blasted hefty sums" on these two players, but to "prove" your point you've invented a scenario where they have, we haven't and this is a negative of ours. It's awful that we haven't signed these players for huge sums, especially when Real Madrid have, in an alternate reality inside your own head.
Stop picking a fight. What I said was hypothetical. You could substitute those names for Bale and Isco, or whoever. I named Gundogan and Vidal because they play in Cabaye's position, and because they are the two names most often mentioned when there's talk of replacing Alonso in their midfield.
I never said it was a negative on our part either. If all the club can afford is midfielders of Fellaini's and Cabaye's quality then that's fine by me. I don't really care about seeing huge signings. However, the chief executive's posturing is annoying all the same.
I'm not picking a fight. You've invented a scenario where Madrid have spent big money on two players you've named, and then said this is what we should do. The gist of your post was that whilst we're linked with Cabaye, Madrid are blasting big money on players they haven't actually blasted big money on. Yeah, you could have used Bale and Isco, it would have made sense to since Madrid actually bloody signed them.
Afford? We spent £27m on Fellaini. I wouldn't call that cheap. Bloody expensive for a midfielder who isn't known for being creative.
This really annoys me.
Why do some of our fans think that we have to spend big to improve the team, some of our best ever players have been bought for pennies in comparison to what other clubs spend, Cantona, Ole, Evra, Vidic, Hernandez to name but a few. Just because Cabaye won't cost 50 million doesn't mean he won't improve or fit into the team.
Midfield is by far our weakest area, it's so obvious now it's embarrassing. A player like Cabaye would be a great addition to the squad, and if we can get him for a relatively good price, then all the better. The club has shown that they will back Moyes by splashing out 27 million on Fellaini, they will back him again when the time comes.
The state our midfield is in atm, a " good addition" to our squad just won't be good enough, that's why ppl think we will have to spend big. Fellaini also is a good addition to our squad. He's still not the solution though. We need genuine quality in there. No matter the cost.
No one player will be the solution.
As far as I can tell no one has said that Cabaye is going to solve all our issues, he will help though, I have no doubt about that if I'm honest.
Personally I'd have him before Cleverley, Anderson, Fellaini and Fletcher, therefore he's an improvement, add another couple of players and we might have a decent midfield.
Edit: I agree that we need to spend big to get a certain type of player, however we also need to improve the squad in that area. That's what most posters are getting at I believe.
Is he going to solve our midfield problems single handedly, overnight? No, of course not. But he's definitely a step in the right direction. Classy player, available in January, PL proven, not cup tied for Europe, who has spoken highly of the club. Looks like a perfect fit in my opinion.
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