I have to say my mind has been firmly changed, Cina. I would still be nervous that getting someone like Cabaye in January would lead to us not addressing the issue in the Summer (as we'd have Cleverley, Anderson, Fellaini, Jones, Carrick, Cabaye and Giggs), but if it means that the majority of those players are condemned to the bench more often then it can only be a positive step.
Yohan Cabaye
- Thread starter Mainoldo
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
- Status
I have to say my mind has been firmly changed, Cina. I would still be nervous that getting someone like Cabaye in January would lead to us not addressing the issue in the Summer (as we'd have Cleverley, Anderson, Fellaini, Jones, Carrick, Cabaye and Giggs), but if it means that the majority of those players are condemned to the bench more often then it can only be a positive step.
A move for Cabaye would not surprise me, and I'd have taken him over Fellaini any day.
But yea, I went a whole summer listening to 'As I told you before, Manchester United football club are always interested in the best players in the world', then we near on equalled our transfer record on a player who, even with our worst midfield in my entire time supporting United (about 20 years), cannot get into our team. Given he isn't going anywhere, we could really use a top class player.
As I also said in another thread a week or so ago, which led to me being chastised for about 2 pages, Cleverley may also need to be let go. We need two players in my view, and we operate in a 25-man squad cap era. If we want two players in, we need to look past just Anderson to get rid of. Who is realistically next in line?
But yea, I went a whole summer listening to 'As I told you before, Manchester United football club are always interested in the best players in the world', then we near on equalled our transfer record on a player who, even with our worst midfield in my entire time supporting United (about 20 years), cannot get into our team. Given he isn't going anywhere, we could really use a top class player.
As I also said in another thread a week or so ago, which led to me being chastised for about 2 pages, Cleverley may also need to be let go. We need two players in my view, and we operate in a 25-man squad cap era. If we want two players in, we need to look past just Anderson to get rid of. Who is realistically next in line?
I understand what your saying by that and the thought crossed my mind as well. However Moyes isn't a paper over the cracks type manager so I can't see that happening, by buying Cabaye it might even give the rest of our midfielders a kick up the arse.
Cabaye signing for you would be moderately pleasing to me. He'd improve your midfield but not by the margin you could hope for.
He'd be part of a process to progress the midfield over time. He'd never be a long term solution to anyone signing him.
If that pleases you, so be it.
If that pleases you, so be it.
Don't worry fin, most people come round to my way of thinking eventually. It's inevitable really.
Indeed
Exactly, I've said before he isn't the solution but he's a step in the right direction. Those saying he isn't an improvement on what we have can also gtfo. Moyes is going to be constructing his own team in the coming few years. Signing him wouldn't by any means represent the finished article by which we mean to conquer Europe with, just a starting point.
Your lot could do a lot worse than him. Imo he's better than anything you have in there apart from Gerrard.
He'd be a much better player than Anderson, arguably Fellaini and, probably at the present moment in time, Cleverley, so in that sense it'd potentilally be a good move. That said, I don't think us signing him would frighten the top teams into thinking we're going to close the gap.
This is true. Currently performing better than a few of our midfielders but in general he is still inferior to the midfielders of the other top clubs and is about on par with the midfielders at a team like Southampton.
Reminds me of the time everyone was talking about the Swansea midfielders and suggesting we sign them. It just won't happen.
To be fair, Fellaini is still finding his feet here. He's still not reached his Everton level yet. What if Cabaye took 12 months to get going? Everybody always presumes these players will hit the ground running. It's probably why we avoid signing players over the age of 26.
You make a good point pocco, Fellaini was always gonna struggle at the start for me unless he was played in that position behind the striker and with a long ball tactic. The technical football needed (we're no Barca or Bayern but still) at CM for Utd and what Fellaini could propose at his best weren't compatible.
You may say he was brought as a destroyer and you may be right in doing so, it just would be completely madness to sign a player for such a reduced role nowadays.
Cabaye could also struggle I suppose but his technical ability, his mobility make us more hopeful than when Fellaini was mentioned to be a possible Utd transfer.
Is Fellaini's Everton level good enough for United? Of course you will disagree with me, because you are against Cabaye coming to United. The age thing is silly, we have signed older players before. There's a year between Fellaini and Cabaye, we signed Young when he was 26, and he's been a dreadful signing. Any signing could have a chance of not working out. Who do you reckon we should go for? Be realistic now.
For starters, he's way better than Fellaini... but that's not saying much.
We will struggle for 4th with the midfielders we have playing the way they are, no Cabaye won't turn us into the best team in the league but he will be an improvement on what we have. That is all you can really hope for in January. I don't understand why some are against it, most f us see game in game out our midfield getting overran and the team struggling to control games and want us to keep the current set until summer were we can buy this 'world class' midfield who will solve all our problems. Let's take it one step at a time ey?
I agree. He'd improve our first XI and that's the most important thing.
Exactly. I don't see the point of continuing as we are and going all out in the summer, even if we do bring in or two quality midfiielders he would be a great option on the bench. The very best midfield's have depth and quality. Barca, Juve, Bayern, Real and Arsenal to name a few.
I actually said in the summer that we should have gone for him instead of Fellaini.
He has several qualities that we lack yet some people would appear to prefer that we should carry on as we are, waiting for a world class CM who is the answer to all of our midfield problems that we might not even get. Cabaye would be an obvious improvement over every midfielder we have apart from Carrick. I'd be happy if we got him.
I'm not really sure that there will be any world class CMs on the market any time soon. All the best seem to be safe and happy somewhere.
Regardless, Cabaye would add quality and depth to our squad IMO.
Regardless, Cabaye would add quality and depth to our squad IMO.
Good player that he is, right now we need more then that. We need some genuine world class quality.
If we keep buying decent/good players from mid table clubs, thats where we'll eventually end up.
If we keep buying decent/good players from mid table clubs, thats where we'll eventually end up.
He's a good player. I wouldn't have minded us buying him this summer - yes, over Fellaini. I wasn't opposed to Fellaini, be it said, but my main concern back then was buying a bloody midfielder, practically anyone, to boost the numbers. Now, however, I don't know. Fellaini won't be going anywhere soon - and I think he can become a decent (squad) player for us, so that's fair enough. The question then becomes what Cabaye's role would be. If we bought him too as a squad option, long term, then by all means. The inevitable consequence of that would be getting rid of both Ando and Cleverley, though.
If we're still planning on buying a truly top class CM (and I believe we are), we're looking at: Top Class Man, Carrick, Cabaye, Jones and Fellaini. With Giggs as a possible luxury player of sorts next season. And Fletcher as another possible squad player. Even if you remove the last two from the equation, we'll still have five central midfielders, not counting Cleverley and Ando. Something has to give there. And then the next question becomes how much of an upgrade Cabaye is - as a squad player, mind. If our main pairing next season is Top Class Man and Carrick, one could argue that Jones, Fellaini (who will undoubtedly improve with time) and Cleverley is good enough as back-up.
If we're still planning on buying a truly top class CM (and I believe we are), we're looking at: Top Class Man, Carrick, Cabaye, Jones and Fellaini. With Giggs as a possible luxury player of sorts next season. And Fletcher as another possible squad player. Even if you remove the last two from the equation, we'll still have five central midfielders, not counting Cleverley and Ando. Something has to give there. And then the next question becomes how much of an upgrade Cabaye is - as a squad player, mind. If our main pairing next season is Top Class Man and Carrick, one could argue that Jones, Fellaini (who will undoubtedly improve with time) and Cleverley is good enough as back-up.
Would that be so horrible ?
In the grand scheme of things, £27 million isn't that expansive in the current market. It is expensive in context of the actual player, but the fee itself is still smaller than the £28 million that was spent on Veron over a decade ago. In inflation terms, Veron was the equivalent of a £40 million signing in today's market. Then there's Rio. At the time, his fee was obscene considering his position.
I never said that we can't buy quality players for cheap prices. What I have previously said is that it's likely that all of Carrick, Fletcher, Fellaini, Cleverley and in the form he's in right now, Giggs, will still be here come next September. Those that expect a brutal cull of Fletcher and Cleverley have their head in the sky. It's likely that there is only room for one midfielder. If the money is there like Woodward has boasted, then I see no reason as to why the club can't sanctions big bids for the best players. Cabaye is good, but he won't really solve anything. Buying decent players like Young and Fellaini - and make no mistake, they were top players for good clubs - is constantly criticised on here and dubbed a major reason for decline of our football. If there was ever a time to pay big money to sort out a position then it's now. If the club can't do that then that's fine, like I said. It just means that Woodward is full of hot air.
Well that's definitely not happening, so we need to get someone in the side that is better than most of the shite we currently have.
Nay - it wouldn't. I'm thinking more along the lines of would it actually be worth it? The man is 27 going on 28 - and to my thinking he would be nothing but a squad man once we get in someone who will actually do (and be) the business. Cleverley has been largely written off by many of late - but he could improve, is younger and might be an allround better and cheaper squad player in the long run.
Right here, right now Cabaye looks like a player who would give us a boost in CM. But as others have pointed out, he might need some time to bed in, just like Fellaini - and all of a sudden we're looking at another initial misfit who is, in fact, below Phil Jones in the pecking order. Perhaps we're better off waiting until we can get our hands on someone who is so bloody good all this bedding-in nonsense won't matter.
People banging on about his age when we have Giggs in the team 
It's interesting, I reckon. The next two or three transfer windows will be very revealing in regards to how much money United can actually spend on a player. According to Ed Woodward, "there was never a cut-off price" under Sir Alex and "if David wants to go after a stellar he can do that." Moyes himself said "there is no budget here." So the ball is in their court. I'm aware that chief execs come out with this waffle all the time, but it was said nonetheless.
Unsure about Cabaye. On the one hand, we have room for at least two midfielders so we could easily sign him and one other. He's PL proven, probably better than everyone we have bar Carrick and obtainable. On the other hand, those are all the same arguments that were used to justify signing Fellaini. We have enough dross in our squad, we don't need any more. Really, any player we sign at this stage should at least have the potential to be as good as/better than Carrick and I don't think Cabaye does.
A lot of players would be a "step in the right direction", the next few players surely have to be a bit more than that? We're past the point where slight improvements are acceptable. I think we're past the stage where players like Cabaye are worthwhile.
A lot of players would be a "step in the right direction", the next few players surely have to be a bit more than that? We're past the point where slight improvements are acceptable. I think we're past the stage where players like Cabaye are worthwhile.
Money isn't an issue here, it's the availability of our targets and identifying players. We spent £27m on Fellaini and I refuse to believe that it wouldn't have got us a better midfielder or that we couldn't scout a talented midfielder in a weaker league and sign him for considerably less.
In the last 5 years or so we struggled to identify good midfielders and there were some on the move for reasonable money - Gundogan , Vidal and Martinez being prime examples. We just never went in for them. We're not getting a top class midfielder from Bayern or Barcelona, we need to look at smaller clubs in Germany, France, Spain, Italy etc. and try to get the best of them.
Cabaye has done it reasonably consistently with both France and Newcastle, I don't think there'd be any fear of him being unable to find his feet like Fellaini has so far. He'd be an immediate starter alongside Carrick. We're gonna be selling Anderson soon, Cleverley is an okay squad player and Fellaini is Fellaini... I mean, Cabaye is a no brainer for a reasonable price.
Nobody is saying Cabaye is the answer to us closing the gap in Europe, he won't do that. However, most sane people are saying he would improve the first team immediately if he came in January. Then we go for the world class £40m player as well in the summer. Wouldn't we all be pleased with that?
Some people underestimate how shit our CM is. Apart from Carrick (whose good but he's no world beater), our central midfielders shouldn't be at a top club. Cabaye at this present state (he may improve) wouldn't be a first teamer at clubs like Bayern and Barca but he would certainly improve us. He would be a great addition to our side and if by some miracle we do manage to produce/buy quality CM which can compete against the likes of Fabregas and Kroos then he would provide the quality cover/competition a team like United should have. Not to forget we would look less desperate which should, in theory, lower the prices down.
I see your point. I'm not saying it's wrong at all, but I can't help but shake the idea that the money is an issue here - and I want to repeat again, if it is an issue then I do not want or expect expensive signings to come. The club has never moved largely beyond the £30 million mark at any point over the last decade, and any apparent or rumoured interest in quite a few players - Hazard, Lucas, Sanchez, Benzema etc. - has resulted in those players ending up elsewhere. Generally, top bracket footballers are hitting 35/40 million plus. It will take that kind of fee, big wages and also a pandering to agents in the way Sir Alex claimed not to like. It isn't nice, but it's the reality. Can United afford to do that? I've seen nothing to suggest we can. That's why I think the next few windows will be revealing.
I do agree with you on identifying players. More often that not, a lot of players just need to be given the chance at a higher level and they can take it. I don't know anything about scouting or how United work when it comes to this, though, so I can't really comment.
I would. But at the end of the day, Carrick, Cabaye, Fellaini, Cleverley, Fletcher, *Insert £40m signing here* and maybe even Giggs is overkill. By all accounts, Moyes is set on 442 with Rooney and Van Persie, irrespective of how people may think of that. There's absolutely no way that Cleverley is getting bumped off so quick. The same applies to Fletcher, who will be given a fair crack. And a fair crack is longer than 4-5 months. Fellaini and Carrick are going nowhere either.
There isn't actually that much room for midfielders unless Moyes is going to be way more ruthless than I'd ever expect. For that reason, that one player should be better than Cabaye.
I have been saying that all day long.
Vidal was not the player he was before he joined Juventus. He improved once he went there just as Carrick did with us. A player like Fabregas would certainly improve us, however players like that are not available. We need to dig deep, take risks and hope for the best.
I honestly do not understand our club. So we can't afford a 40m signing or risk 15-30m on a foreign talent in the mould of Vidal (at Leverkusen). However we can still find money to spent 27m or 20m on EPL tested average players such as Young and Fellaini. That really doesn't make sense to be honest.
For me signing a Gundogan or a Vidal isn't really a viable option for us. What we should be looking to do though is getting them when they're at Nuremburg, Leverkusen etc. Not after they make the big move.
Let's say we sign two cms, Cabaye + X. We'd then have X, Carrick, Cabaye, Fellaini and Cleverley, in that order. Better than what we have now? Sure. Still pretty ordinary at our level though. Plus at that stage we'd have reached a celing in terms of improvement as we wouldn't have space to add any other cms. We'd be stuck with that mediocre midfield for years, still complaining about how much better our options are in attack and defence. Why settle? As you've said, Carrick is no world beater. Would it really be that hard to sign two cms who are as good as/better than him? Cabaye isn't, at least imo. If we get to the point where Carrick has to actually compete for his place in the team, then we'll be getting somewhere.
Our crap midfield is, in one way, a good thing. It offers us the rare opportunity to completely overhaul a weak area of our team and improve massively. Maybe we shouldn't squander this opportunity on players like Cabaye.
What's this obsession with age we caftards have ? I mean it's ridiculous, 27-28 age are the prime years for a midfielder and we have to accept in nowadays football market, not every player is there to stay for 6-7-8 years at a club. I'd take a 2-3 seasons with a player like Cabaye on the team while searching for other ways to improve CM options. 28 years is seen as weirdly old these days.
- Status