How the Hell has Cleverley got the best long ball stat of the three? There's something fishy going on there, because TC's range of passing is not something I'd consider one of his strengths.
Yohan Cabaye
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http://www.whoscored.com/Players/69956
Clev has made 43 long balls, 34 were successful.
Carrick has made 88 long balls, 67 were successful.
Cabaye has made 33 long balls, 17 were successful.
So although Carrick has made more long balls, Clev has a better success rate. But you have to balance that out considering Carrick has played more mins. Hence why I did the first batch of results as Per Min because its a fairer way to evaluate the stats.
The percentage in itself mean nothing without the number of long balls attempted, plus it's difficult to have stats that will tell you which long passer is more "creative" than another, which one attempts more dangerous passes than another, which one plays with shitty teammates who cannot make runs and control the ball.
I bet most of Cleverley's long balls were easy cross-field passes to Evra, whilst a fair few of Cabaye's attempts were probably hoofs to the target man. Kouroux's right about a lack of context in the numbers. Good work all the same RedSky, that graphic certainly paints an illuminating picture.
Those target man being Ameobi and Cissé, it helps understanding why Cabaye's percentage is lower. I didn't mean to say that stats are pointless, they're tools. Fortunately football is a lot different than basketball.
It's also a bit unfair to compare Carrick/Clev to Cabaye because he's normally a bit higher up the pitch. But people seem to think he'd be a good player for United. I think he'd do well for us, but the problem is that I don't think we'd give him the freedom he'd want in the middle. Our central midfielders tend to be disciplined and don't push too high up the pitch.
Did anyone want me to look at any other players btw? I'm just doing Lallana atm.
Did anyone want me to look at any other players btw? I'm just doing Lallana atm.
Injury record isn't great ? In his last 4 seasons at Lille he played a total of 169 games (averaged 34 each season in the league)
In his first season at Newcastle he played 34 matches in the league - and last year he had a couple of injuries so he only played 26 games in the league. If that is bad - there are few with good injury records out there.
I didn't even realise that WhoScored has European team stats. So I've thrown Koke on the end, but i'll add in a few more top muppet transfers and see how it changes. But it's interesting to see who's top of the table so far:
Look at the gulf in stats for total passes between Carrick and everyone else! I also decided not to include the Success Percentages due to some misleading stats. I.E. If someone has only made 1 through ball but it was successful, they'd get 100%. Therefore giving points for that misleads the end result.
Look at the gulf in stats for total passes between Carrick and everyone else! I also decided not to include the Success Percentages due to some misleading stats. I.E. If someone has only made 1 through ball but it was successful, they'd get 100%. Therefore giving points for that misleads the end result.
Thought i'd look at the 3 mentioned the most on the last page.
What it shows is that Cabaye is much more of an AM. However, whats impressive imo is his Tackle/Interceptions. He's got some steel to his game.
Per min from what? A whole season? The current season?
If they are whoscored stats then I'd take them with a serious grain of salt. A regular grain won't even do.
Current season. Whoscored takes their information from Opta. It's the best free statistics website I've found on the internet.
This is last season:
I just don't trust them because every game their stats, possession and passing, are vastly different from UEFA's in the CL.
Current season. Whoscored takes their information from Opta. It's the best free statistics website I've found on the internet.
This is last season:
Cleverley is quality.
The midfield debate really is a tough one. So tough I don't even know what to think anymore.
First I thought we needed some physicality, now I think we need pace and dribbling. Cleverley can be shit or very very good. Fellaini is a physical beast but kind of slow and is taking lots of time adapting. Anderson could probably solve all the problems but has poor fitness and probably should not have been bought after breaking his leg. Giggs is 40. Carrick is brilliant but a tad slow and not the most imposing player. Rooney I see as a future deep-lying midfielder but for now is too good as a forward.
The fancy, big name players don't seem to want to come here. Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal seem to be buying all the midfielders out there. The rest play in Spain or Germany.
feck it, Moyes should call Paul Scholes and get him to do some yoga and get him back in the side.
Or maybe we should go against tradition and play a 3 man midfield and have players like Januzaj and Nani to play more centrally. Valencia would only get games at RB and Young would be sold back to Villa and do really well.
Ya, I'd take Cabeye.
First I thought we needed some physicality, now I think we need pace and dribbling. Cleverley can be shit or very very good. Fellaini is a physical beast but kind of slow and is taking lots of time adapting. Anderson could probably solve all the problems but has poor fitness and probably should not have been bought after breaking his leg. Giggs is 40. Carrick is brilliant but a tad slow and not the most imposing player. Rooney I see as a future deep-lying midfielder but for now is too good as a forward.
The fancy, big name players don't seem to want to come here. Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal seem to be buying all the midfielders out there. The rest play in Spain or Germany.
feck it, Moyes should call Paul Scholes and get him to do some yoga and get him back in the side.
Or maybe we should go against tradition and play a 3 man midfield and have players like Januzaj and Nani to play more centrally. Valencia would only get games at RB and Young would be sold back to Villa and do really well.
Ya, I'd take Cabeye.
Rakitic is third and he's probably been best of the lot this season.
Dortmund aren't a possession based team. Carrick will therefor always look better than a Dortmund midfielder on paper like that.
Why this specific batch of players?
Dortmund aren't a possession based team. Carrick will therefor always look better than a Dortmund midfielder on paper like that.
Why this specific batch of players?
Imo its much more about what the combination is. For example Cleverley gives away the least fouls. We missed Jones' aggression by a mile when he replaced him in midfield and players ran past him. Even Kagawa was more aggressive in the tackle. And not giving the ball away or being tackled is all well and good, but you should take a risk every now and then to make something happen.
You look at the 18 goals Rakitic has had the final pass or scored and the most key passes, or Banega's most dribbles and total throughballs with 3rd least likely to let his man dribble him and 3rd most fouled and each has more impact on a match, even if they dont have as many or the same total stats to suggest they are the best. The combinations are better because they are less passive players than Cleverley
You look at the 18 goals Rakitic has had the final pass or scored and the most key passes, or Banega's most dribbles and total throughballs with 3rd least likely to let his man dribble him and 3rd most fouled and each has more impact on a match, even if they dont have as many or the same total stats to suggest they are the best. The combinations are better because they are less passive players than Cleverley
In the Summer I'd have definitely said we should sign him (along with a top quality midfielder). However after the Fellaini signing, acquiring him would merely mean having 3 decent midfielders and Carrick.
He was the signing we should have made instead of Fellaini, not as well as.
He was the signing we should have made instead of Fellaini, not as well as.
Very harsh on Cabaye. Think he's clearly a better midfielder than both Fellaini and Cleverley and I'd happy take him here.
He looks like the sort of player who could really make the step up at a bigger club too.
I noticed this too, but I did some research last season and found out that UEFA's is wrong... Or they may count clearances as passes, which may explain it. Last season, they had Modric's passing completion against Manchester City (away) as very poor, I can't remember what it was, but it was less than 60%. Opta is the best stats organisation out there - WhoScored uses Opta and is one of the best stats on the net.
Well, I took names of players that are key muppet transfer names. I added Schneiderlin in because he's someone I rate at Southampton as being one of the best DM's in the league. Delph I put in because he's having a very good season and it'll be interesting to compare his stats from last season to this season.
Also, I've redone the ratings so if the player comes first he gets 13 points, 2nd = 12, 3rd = 11, 4th = 10 etc etc
I've saved over the old image, so if you want to have a look at the order, check out the image again.
Rakitic comes out on top last season by a country mile.
Opta had Xavi with a 100% passing success whilst the official stats said that he got at least 4 wrong. That's a big difference where it's easy to see who went wrong. The official stats are also a lot clearer. Not only do they tell how many passes are made and not made but also who the ball is passed to and it's also categorized intro 4 different categories that are without bias, that is, short, medium, long and cross instead of through balls and the key passes which is heavily influenced by what the stat person thinks.
They don't count clearances as passes. In that particular game, according to the stats, the short and medium passes have the worst percentage. The difference isn't just in passing. Opta says that the possession was 66% - 34% in that game. UEFA has it at 55% - 45%. They do specify that it is ball possession so there might be a difference in how it's measured.
My point being that we don't know how Opta measures it. They aren't official. At least UEFA stats has that going for them. It's like the difference between citing your source and the source is a research paper whilst another one uses wikipedia.
Wait, I think you don't know much about Opta (not an insult, please don't take it as one). Opta measures the length of a pass, too. I'm not sure how many people know about this, but FourFourTwo Stats Zone is an app that you can download which provides you with the stats you need. It has square, short, long, failed, etc. passes. It has defensive blocks, interceptions, etc. WhoScored, I believe, have bought some of the services Opta offers, and not all, which is understandable. Re usage of UEFA/Opta: The Guardian and ESPN - to name two as an exaple - have used Opta's stats and not the UCL stats.
Edit - Also I think Opta are official. I'm more than certain that Sky has bought some of the services they provide.
Edit 2 - They are official. Here we go.
The time to sign Cabaye was this summer, and we should have got him instead of Fellaini. At this point we're stuck with Fellaini, we need to add an automatic starter to the the squad not another player at a similar level to what we already have.
I think he would slot into the first team straight away.
I think Cabaye would slot straight into the first team, but generally agree.
I agree that he'd start as well, but that's not really saying much currently. If we're buying a starter we should be aiming as close to someone of Fabregas' caliber as possible.
Opta aren't official. That's their problem imo. They'd have a bit more access if they were. They need get on that. I've done this for a living. I've been the official stats person for a league. I was only alone so the stats were very limited but the access is different if you are.
The stats you see in the Fantasy PL are official. They often differentiate from Soccernet's (ESPN) which seems to be Opta.
But whichever ones you choose you've got human beings counting them and there will be mistakes. I've seen UEFA make them. I know the people there don't have it spot on. But they are official and those are the stats that count.
Lallana, Barkley or Cabaye - all would greatly strengthen our central midfield. And all of them are very good players.
Yes please, Moyes
Yes please, Moyes
You're right there.I do though think we should be thinking two CM come January if possible.We may not get two in January, but we should be looking for two currently.One certain starter, and another that is thought to be a certain starter in the not so distant future.Lallana and Barkley would get games for us, and in a couple of years they could be regulars and key players.Cabaye would be ready for the first team right now, but we need to be aiming higher.
I agree he is much better than Cleverley and Fellaini.
However I'm not sure we could accommodate Fellaini, Cleverley, Carrick, Cabaye, Jones and A.N.Other for those 2 positions (even if Anderson leaves and Giggs retires).
Possibly if Rio retires and Jones is permanently dropped to CB it could be a good move.
I don't really care about games for any of those players except Carrick and Jones, and if Rio retires and as Vidic ages more, Jones will be played in CB more and more. If Cabaye makes our midfield better, who gives a feck if it prevents players like Cleverley and Anderson getting games?
I don't think you can discredit Opta because they aren't the FA, UEFA or FIFA.
It's a huge operation dedicated to sports stats and I don't think so many sources would use them if they didn't have the credentials to provide accurate stats.
Official means what in this case? UEFA in the CL? Means bugger all imo.
Lallana is able to roam at Southampton, he's more of a winger than a CM.
Barkley started the season well, but he needs time to develop.
Cabaye would certainly improve our midfield and is the player we should have purchased in the Summer.
He is not a CM, plays mainly as a wide playmaker. Schneiderlin/Wanyama/Cork play as their CM's
Everytime I see him, he's constantly shooting from long range - generally to very little success.
He's a very good player, but it's irritating.
He's a very good player, but it's irritating.
Not me, they've had more than enough opportunities. If Cleverley and Anderson are proper United players they will relish the challenge of some competition. To be honest they should both be looking at themselves anyway if they can't nail a place down in this current United midfield. The fact that a 40 year old winger is starting ahead of them in CM should be enough to question their futures at this club. Cabaye would walk into the place as the best CM after Carrick by some margin. Anderson should have been on his way in the summer anyway in my view. Can only think Moyes is being fair with everyone and giving them a chance.
Indeed, he's got a mental shot ratio this season. Almost as bad as that Townsend chap.
Possibly something he's been told to do, since every now and then he scores a corker? Would get irritating if he never scored but even Ronaldo has about 5 wild shots per game, except he has about another 5 shots that end up going in.
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