Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


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We are in a title challenging position in december. All good for now. Why would anyone want Ole out?

This has to be a joke.
I'm beginning to think that being mediocre is now seen as being acceptable.
We are in 7th place, while former managers (Jose, Moyes) are above us in the league, while using fewer resources than available to Ole.

:lol: The feck all trophy

And for those who are not used to winning trophies, the FA Trophy is not the trophy that winners aim to win.
 
I made it clear that the approach we have against big teams at home is not consistent with others. Your Chelsea examples were during empty stadiums too, so I'm not buying it being worse for us and better for others.

Lampard faced Liverpool at home and had them exchange blow for blow until the red card. They were not set out to play cautious. I suggest you rewatch the game up to the red card if you're not familiar, Fabinho saved a couple of Werner's breaking runs through to the Liverpool defence. Of course that stupidity from Christensen ruined the game.
Lampard faced Spurs with the lions share of possession (61%) and probably would have won had Abraham put away any one of the sitters that Reece James had placed on his head.
We played City today and created nothing outside a couple headers from a corner, and didn't even dictate the game, we had around 47% possession.

It's clear that other teams do not adopt the same cautious approach. Even Arteta who is the most cautious of all managers went at Spurs to attack them and most the game took place in Spurs' own half.


They may have settled for a draw but Chelsea created far more than we did today, and Chelsea also had dominated possession.

Yeah I don't have an issue with this - that's my view before a ball was kicked today. I'd have taken a point. But the way this game panned out, it's just poor as a performance.

If you followed my posts here you'll see I'm not counting good or bad results under Ole but I'm counting good or bad performances from us under him. In his 2nd full season at the club I expect more consistent performances. That's why I was pissed when we won 3-2 vs Brighton and happy at half time when we were 2-0 down to Southampton. And today, although we got a result I'd have taken before kick off, the problem is, our performance was lacking. There are chronic issues with our attack in the lack of familiar attacking patterns, the wastefulness of our strikers and the lack of press from the team. Look at how DCL, Richarldson, and Iwobi are hunting down Chelsea from the goalkeeper's short pass every single time. I havent' seen us do that once this season. It's the performances that are a concern today, not just how many results we muster.

Neville was right today in saying we are with the title pack but it feels off because the performances are a problem and you can't skim through games like that all too often. Ole needs to build on good performances not just good results, and he's not doing it. I praised him from Istanbul, praised him at HT at Southampton (because I just knew we'd win the game the way we played), and praised him against PSG even when we lost. But my count lasted at 3 before he plummeted against at West Ham. That shit isn't good enough. You can't be this inconsistent. He's terribly lucky that Chelsea and Arsenal took punts on novice managers too, as it helps his cause. But a club like Manchester United who have been in abyss for 8 years need to take less risks and get someone proven if this inconsistency continues.


Dont disagree with much you say.


What I'm saying with the manager in home games being hesitant is because of the shocking start and let's be honest fragile defending all season, I feel him ove compensating the line up and tactics in these 'bigger' games.


Honestly think if we didn't start of bad three spurs in too he defo be more proactive.


To be honest we even feel the same before games. Happened other night against red bull behind in a minute, then you see we best them 5 nil, you see the major issue at times.
 
Aston Villa in 10th spot are also 6 points only away from the top. I guess you can also say they're now in a title challenge ?
Exactly the point. Too early to draw any concrete conclusions. We're still on course for top 4 which is the take away.
 
Exactly the point. Too early to draw any concrete conclusions. We're still on course for top 4 which is the take away.

....and you think that the Top 4 Trophy is anything to be proud of?
What is the obsession with Top 4?
Guys, let me explain: Top 4 Trophy is nothing to brag about. Winning actual trophies is what counts.
The much ridiculed Arsenal fired their long term manager because he kept winning the Top 4 Trophy and an FA Cup (from time to time).
If we get 4th place, that is abject failure!!!
 
But trophies don't happen in silo. It's the trajectory that matters surely?



The same form which had these 3 being one of the most productive in Europe? Also please don't talk about Bruno. He can be shite for a day considering what he's done for us.


Maybe brother. Maybe I am.
Im on about the form of the front 3 which has fell off a cliff this season, compared to the lockdown last season. Bruno to a lesser degree.
 
....and you think that the Top 4 Trophy is anything to be proud of?
What is the obsession with Top 4?
Guys, let me explain: Top 4 Trophy is nothing to brag about. Winning actual trophies is what counts.
The much ridiculed Arsenal fired their long term manager because he kept winning the Top 4 Trophy and an FA Cup (from time to time).
If we get 4th place, that is abject failure!!!
We ain't winning the league this season if that's what is success for you
 
Exactly.

The level where bottling every semi final we get to is to be cheered 'because at least we got to a semi final'. The level where we cheer a 0-0 home draw against City because we stopped them creating chances. The level where bottling out of a CL group we were comfortably leading is cheered 'because last season we were struggling to beat Astana'. The level where just scraping into the top four every season is to be cheered 'because we're still only at the start of the never-ending rebuild'. The level where 'clear signs of progress' is taking 5 points from a possible 18 at OT, scoring an awe-inspiring ONE GOAL from open play in the process.

Haha. Well said.
 
Im on about the form of the front 3 which has fell off a cliff this season, compared to the lockdown last season. Bruno to a lesser degree.
And that is on Ole? I mean he can be the one to blame but the same time he's been the reason they were good in the first place or is it they were good players always (yet neither reached the standards until last season under accomplished managers) but ole was the reason they failed suddenly? Surely thats hypocritical?
 
....and you think that the Top 4 Trophy is anything to be proud of?
What is the obsession with Top 4?
Guys, let me explain: Top 4 Trophy is nothing to brag about. Winning actual trophies is what counts.
The much ridiculed Arsenal fired their long term manager because he kept winning the Top 4 Trophy and an FA Cup (from time to time).
If we get 4th place, that is abject failure!!!


So is it win a league with a team who on paper seem like they ain't ready to win league.........or do you think we should win a league?



I'm confused these days because either top 4 is being arsenal and is apparently shit even since we barely managed it since fergie left.



Sounds like spades of emotion as usual from some people.
 
....and you think that the Top 4 Trophy is anything to be proud of?
What is the obsession with Top 4?
Guys, let me explain: Top 4 Trophy is nothing to brag about. Winning actual trophies is what counts.
The much ridiculed Arsenal fired their long term manager because he kept winning the Top 4 Trophy and an FA Cup (from time to time).
If we get 4th place, that is abject failure!!!

100% mate. Oh how standards have dropped.
 
....and you think that the Top 4 Trophy is anything to be proud of?
What is the obsession with Top 4?
Guys, let me explain: Top 4 Trophy is nothing to brag about. Winning actual trophies is what counts.
The much ridiculed Arsenal fired their long term manager because he kept winning the Top 4 Trophy and an FA Cup (from time to time).
If we get 4th place, that is abject failure!!!
But then youre not taking context into account and pretending we have 2009 standards will kill our progression even more.
No manager would take our side that finished 3rd last year, add VDB, Cavani and Telles and watch our board feck transfers up, and expect us to win the league or its failure. Hell we are even in the title mix as we speak. We havent even had a chance to fail.
 
Chelsea will probably end this weekend fourth if Leicester win their match. Jumping above them is hardly an achievement ?
 
....and you think that the Top 4 Trophy is anything to be proud of?
What is the obsession with Top 4?
Guys, let me explain: Top 4 Trophy is nothing to brag about. Winning actual trophies is what counts.
The much ridiculed Arsenal fired their long term manager because he kept winning the Top 4 Trophy and an FA Cup (from time to time).
If we get 4th place, that is abject failure!!!
Glazers have really messed up the club's standards. Top 4 is only a requirement for the financial benefits. As far as progress and ambition goes it means little and more importantly it doesn't mean more than an actual cup.

Ole needs to win a trophy this season. Moyes won the mickey mouse community shield, LVG can say he improved on that by winning the FA cup, Jose improved on that by winning the league cup and the Europa league. Ole is in danger of being the first manager to win nothing in any of his 3 seasons, not even a minor cup. His returns have most certainly not been the best
 

Because they look at performances and not just blindly look at results alone.

As I said many times on this thread, look at performances. It's so early in the season (just 11 games), I don't care if we are 2points off 14th or 2 points off top. It means nothing, just look at whether we are seeing more games like Southampton or more games like West Brom - both wins but one was a thumping performance by way of chances, aggression and intent and the other was a drab affair relying on a moment to win a game.
 
The players talk about winning the league. They think it’s as open as ever. Offensive mindset. Belief.

Yet, if any fans say that they believe we are still in the title race or even have an outside chance of contending, the green smileys, insults and ridicule comes out.

I don’t understand how half of you even bother following this club.
 
The players talk about winning the league. They think it’s as open as ever. Offensive mindset. Belief.

Yet, if any fans say that they believe we are still in the title race or even have an outside chance of contending, the green smileys, insults and ridicule comes out.

I don’t understand how half of you even bother following this club.
It's great to have an offensive mindset - I think the problem is we are starting games too slowly and it's setting the tone generally for the game. We need to stop reacting to games generally, and start minute 0 with the offensive mindset you claim we have.
 
Against Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and City we've scored one goal (a penalty) and taken 2 points. These games were all at home and we didn't deserve to win any of them. We're meant to be a club that challenges for the biggest trophies. We need to get a top class manager in. I appreciate that Jose and LVG did not work out here, but I don't think that should mean that we should give up on employing a top class manager going forward.
We've got a lot of away games against the big 6 in the second half of the season and I think we'll struggle under Ole.
 
Let's just accept we're not good enough to be attacking and pressing for a win against this City side. This was a decent result in our circumstances. If we want to be a glass half full then being disappointed with the result is a sign of progress

Desperately missing fans.

I think we played okay today, very well in the first half, even. But to suggest we are not good enough to go for a win against this City side... I'm trying to understand that point of view, but I can't. City? This season's City? The one starting the day in 8th place? Sorry Sults my friend, I don't mean to sound so incredulous, but I'm genuinely baffled. What did City do today that suggested they are a team we can't go out and beat?
 
It's great to have an offensive mindset - I think the problem is we are starting games too slowly and it's setting the tone generally for the game. We need to stop reacting to games generally, and start minute 0 with the offensive mindset you claim we have.

Really, really not the point I was making at all.
 
I think we played okay today, very well in the first half, even. But to suggest we are not good enough to go for a win against this City side... I'm trying to understand that point of view, but I can't. City? This season's City? The one starting the day in 8th place? Sorry Sults my friend, I don't mean to sound so incredulous, but I'm genuinely baffled. What did City do today that suggested they are a team we can't go out and beat?
Hey buddy

I agree City aren't that good at the moment. However, I'm not sure United are much better than City at this point in time.
 
Really, really not the point I was making at all.
I know the point you're making - if the players speak openly about a title race, why shouldn't you?

Well do you have quotes that say they can win the league? Can you confirm what their quotes are just so I can understand what they are saying?
 
I wouldn't rule out most top teams for the PL this season but, if we're going feature amongst them, we need to get our act together now.

As Neville said, and many other fans ,pundits, we're still a team finding its feet and is that really good enough now ?

We're still a moments team. We can be subdued for the majority of the game and then alittle passage of play or a individualist effort and we can grab a victory from the claws of defeat.
But this has been the case with Jose too. We were defensively alittle more sound but we still relied heavily on moments from individuals.

Personally, overall, I still think this is as far as Ole can take us. I think he's having a real hard time in trying to fix this team both mentally and tactically.
He's trying too many different set-ups at a consistent basis, for me. Chopping and changing constantly.

I think if United had any ambition this season , now would be the best time to move Ole on.
 
Because they look at performances and not just blindly look at results alone.

As I said many times on this thread, look at performances. It's so early in the season (just 11 games), I don't care if we are 2points off 14th or 2 points off top. It means nothing, just look at whether we are seeing more games like Southampton or more games like West Brom - both wins but one was a thumping performance by way of chances, aggression and intent and the other was a drab affair relying on a moment to win a game.
More of Southampton?
 
I know the point you're making - if the players speak openly about a title race, why shouldn't you?

Well do you have quotes that say they can win the league? Can you confirm what their quotes are just so I can understand what they are saying?

The point I was making is that some of the fans in this thread are so miserable, negative and borderline spiteful, especially when people try to put a positive spin on the situation, or argue why everything isn’t as bad as it seems/a lot make it out to be.

Are the players also to be answered with “Comical Ali” and “ :lol: :lol: Clueless” and “deluded, sack him, how far the holy standards have fallen” , “Win the league? You’re having a laugh, we’re as far away from 14th as the top, do you think BAYERN would accept being almost 14th? Huh? HUH?” if they verbally talk about a title challenge? A title challenge in some very weird times that no one has ever been through before? A title challenge we’re actually right in the middle of, after about a third of the season?

Here’s some quotes. I hope the miserable brigade have a go at De Gea as well, the clueless has been.


 
I don't understand how a manager called the things he's called on this forum came third last season and if we win our game in hand are 3rd this season. Despite so many managers who aren't spoken about with such hate and are said to be better, being behind him.

The mental gymnastics at play are staggering. Beat leipzig 5-0 but 'that was totally unfair result.' lose to leipzig, 'what a fraud, completely out of his depth.' this type of double standard is just so routinely applied by the same posters there's not even a useful discussion happening here most of the time.

It's all very cringeworthy to read.

I'm not a full ole backer, and worry that despite doing a good job maybe he's reached his limit but seriously, some of you need to take a breath and calm down a little before posting sometimes. There's such rage and bitterness and sometimes even hate behind posts. And this is us with 13 points from 15 and 4 off the top. Try to see both sides of an argument, it helps
 
Hey buddy

I agree City aren't that good at the moment. However, I'm not sure United are much better than City at this point in time.

Good to see you around, hope all is well, Sultan! :)

I don't think anyone would argue that United are better than City right now. But we are not a lot worse, as one can see from the table, and today City looked very much beatable, as they generally have all season. Therefore, I don't think a draw at home against them is the decent point it would have been in past seasons, and I certainly think we should at least be trying to create chances against them at home. Shame that we didn't go for it in the second half, I felt.
 
The point I was making is that some of the fans in this thread are so miserable, negative and borderline spiteful, especially when people try to put a positive spin on the situation, or argue why everything isn’t as bad as it seems/a lot make it out to be.

Are the players also to be answered with “Comical Ali” and “ :lol: :lol: Clueless” and “deluded, sack him, how far the holy standards have fallen” , “Win the league? You’re having a laugh, we’re as far away from 14th as the top, do you think BAYERN would accept being almost 14th? Huh? HUH?” if they verbally talk about a title challenge? A title challenge in some very weird times that no one has ever been through before? A title challenge we’re actually right in the middle of, after about a third of the season?

Here’s some quotes. I hope the miserable brigade have a go at De Gea as well, the clueless has been.



You are looking at two different things.

DDG says we can win the league.

The reaction you speak of is when Ole talks and sets us out to play in a defeatist manner, which is basically saying "no chance we can win the league if we play/set out like this".
EDIT:
His approach for the match and post-match-comments are such obvious reasons why we will never win any trophy under him.
For example this quote - suggests we won't win a trophy because of the way he's setting us out. Not because of a lack of potential in the squad itself.
 
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I don't understand how a manager called the things he's called on this forum came third last season and if we win our game in hand are 3rd this season. Despite so many managers who aren't spoken about with such hate and are said to be better, being behind him.

The mental gymnastics at play are staggering. Beat leipzig 5-0 but 'that was totally unfair result.' lose to leipzig, 'what a fraud, completely out of his depth.' this type of double standard is just so routinely applied by the same posters there's not even a useful discussion happening here most of the time.

It's all very cringeworthy to read.

I'm not a full ole backer, and worry that despite doing a good job maybe he's reached his limit but seriously, some of you need to take a breath and calm down a little before posting sometimes. There's such rage and bitterness and sometimes even hate behind posts. And this is us with 13 points from 15 and 4 off the top. Try to see both sides of an argument, it helps

I got set upon by another caf poster for suggesting this the other day, but I do feel it would be better if people could respond directly to the posters they are referring to, because I generally haven't seen that many of these "Ole out" posters who apparently "hate" the man.
 
We need to just stay in the mix until the window opens and hopefully buy a CB or a DM.... Whichever one Ole thinks is needed most. I suspect it will CB.

People need to chill out. Our league form has been good of late and today wasn't a bleeding gimmie was it?
 
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