I get the cries to sack ole. It's turning into an omni-shambles and in as much as the fans have some power to affect any change at a football club, getting the manager sacked is about the only option available to us. But it's just such a low ambition idea. It might improve us a little bit in the short term but honestly lads what's the point in using our energy to change manager? Have some bloody ambition. Think about what the actual problem is and work to solving it. And I don't know how we get shot of the American parasites who have attached themselves to us or how to get rid of their lacky ceo. But things will not improve in a meaningful way unless that problem is solved. I can guarantee that. The Glazer's want you to spend your time giving out about the manager and hoping the next new shiny one will be the spark to turn it all around. Please be smarter. Focus on the underlying issue.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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Cant defend Ole's record, hes been around for a full year and the numbers just speak for themselves, its shite. I think someone like Poch or Allegri will do better as it they will get more out of this squad because they are better coaches than Ole (there are a lot of coaches better than Ole tbf). All of that said, we will still not win jack shit with Woodward in charge of signing players. Its been said to death, but the days of a manager sticking around for years are over, the idea of trying to replicate what happened with SAF and him running everything on the football side of things are over, top clubs sack managers all the time that is the norm. What we need is a football head, someone to be in charge of the recruitment and get the players that are at the level of what a United player should be. Sporting Director, Director of Football whatever you call it, that is the new manager in football. Making sure we have the right person with the right abilities there is what matters the most in a modern club. With very few exceptions, all the biggest clubs in the world operate this way. Its mind boggling how Woodward thinks he understands football when he clearly does not and literally a teenager who plays FM would do a better job than him at recruiting players. Without getting rid of Woodward or significantly reducing his role (and his existing team's) in the recruitment of players, we are not going to win titles regardless of who the manager is.
Go on then, and apologies if you have elsewhere, numerous times, but gives us the names of a RB, CB and Midfielder that could've been signed for the £130m instead of AWB and Maguire.
I'll give you Elseid Hysaj
It's up to the scouts to go around and find talent outside the EPL on the cheap. Surely we don't need them to 'discover' Maguire and AWB on a looping 130m fee. The former doesn't look so much better to Smalling and we spent a world record fee on him.
Therefore to answer your question.
Demiral - 15m
Theo Hernandes - 20m
Meunier - 25m
Rabiot - free
Olmo - 45m
Haaland - 10m
Brandt - 21m
James 15m
a-Smalling should have been kept. We should have sold Rojo and got rid of Jones and we should have got a young CB on the cheap like Demiral. Smalling, Demiral, Tuanzebe, Bailly and Lindelof would be enough
b- Shaw is pretty much useless really. If we could get 15m out of him we could have bought Theo Hernandes for an excess of 5m
c- Meunier was available for around 25m as he was heading at the end of his contract.
d- Rabiot was on a free last summer. He would have been a decent replacement for Herrera
e- Olmo was around 40-50m in the Summer. He can cover RW and AMC.
f- Brandt was bought by Dortmund for 21m. He can play as CM and LW
g- Haaland was available for around 15m
i - James is a decent signing so I'd say 15m on him was worth the while
That's 151m. When one considers that we were selling Lukaku for 80m, Jesse for 20m, Rojo and Shaw for 15m each then it goes down to 21m. You have to admit that this squad would fair better in the league then the current squad.
GK: DDG, Romero
DR: Meunier, Young, Dalot
DC: Demiral, Smalling, Lindelof, Tuanzebe, Bailly
DL: Hernandes, Williams
DM: Matic, Rabiot
MC; McT, Fred
MC: Pogba, Periera, Brandt
AMR: Olmo, James, Mata
AML: Martial, Rashford
STK: Haaland, Greenwood
Unfortunately it might lack the 'understanding our culture' or whatever that means that Ole keeps rambling about. It really didn't helped us much against Burnley but hey....it's seems quite important.
It's laughable he is still in charge ..... laughable
Same sentiments. With the board as it is, he doesn't stand a chance of turning things around.
Tbh, I don't think even Poch would fare much better but I guess we need new ideas.
We may not win the league with Poch and our current squad but at least we’d look like we can play football, pretty certain about that.
All of which were his decisions. He decided to blow the entire budget on defenders and we still concede every game. He decided to go into a season with a depleted squad.
We have the highest injury rate since he took over compared to the 5-6 years before him under various managers and we still don't look fit enough or smart enough to press.
He's Woodward and Glazers mouthpiece and if people somehow expect anything at the club to change with him in charge are deluded.
Its a thin squad for sure but Ole isn't helping by doing little or no rotation with the players. He exacerbated the injuries to Pogba, Mctominay, Maquire and Rashford by letting them play whilst injured.
I thought some of the players look absolutely knackered tonight - Wan-Bissaka was out on his feet the last 10 - 15 minutes. Ole's run this squad into the ground.
I'm really starting to twist on this. It's very hard to keep defending him when such abject displays are put on tape. The set piece stat .. that's very, very damning. Particularly after spending 80 million on Maguire. That result last night is unacceptable, even allowing for injuries.
But the issue, as @bdecuc rightly says above, is higher. We can sack the manager, again. We can appoint a new manager, again. We can have hope, again. And ultimately, because of the God awful structure in place at the club, and the absolute buffoon who is currently running all football matters, the new manager will fail. The Glazers must be laughing at us all, getting into an uproar at the manager, while they bleed the club dry in the background.
Until Ed steps away, and / or a DOF is appointed, no manager has a hope.
But the issue, as @bdecuc rightly says above, is higher. We can sack the manager, again. We can appoint a new manager, again. We can have hope, again. And ultimately, because of the God awful structure in place at the club, and the absolute buffoon who is currently running all football matters, the new manager will fail. The Glazers must be laughing at us all, getting into an uproar at the manager, while they bleed the club dry in the background.
Until Ed steps away, and / or a DOF is appointed, no manager has a hope.
When Ole said he had to make short term signing and yet makes no sense that he did not sign Halaand for agent cut reason. What a stupid stupid emotional decision.
This a ridiculous excuse. Tell me how many players on that Burnley team would have got in our team? None. Zero. Nada. Even with injuries, recruitment etc Ole should beat Burnley. You saying Burnley were the better team on paper and favorites to win?
With the absolute buffoon that is currently managing us we're guaranteed failure.
Last night display and this season as a whole is dedicated to all the deluded ones that somehow think keeping Solskjaer will make Ed or the board's job less safe.
What budget? We only spent £40 million net with Lukaku leaving. If we cannot afford to spend more than £ 40 million in a transfer window then we are in dire straits. With Herrera and Fellaini also leaving, we should have been looking to buy a midfielder and we were heavily linked to Bruno in the summer. The fact that we didnt agree a deal with Sporting then, as is the case now, is frustratingly incompentent from Woodward and Co.
We bought Maguire and we have massively improved defensively. We are one of the top teams in goals conceded from open play. Our defending in set-pieces is shocking and hopefully the coaches sort that out quickly. But in general I am not worried about our defence if everyone is fit and that is due to the recruitment in the summer. What we need now is a proper midfield and a creative outlet.
New (Graham) Poll added
OLD POLL RESULTS DELETED. NEW POLL ADDED. POLL WILL CLOSE AFTER 14 DAYS. YOU MAY CHANGE YOUR MIND DURING THAT TIME & CHANGE YOUR VOTE ACCORDINGLY
How much did Chelsea spent? How much Leicester spent?
We have 4 clean sheets in 24 games after 130m spent on defence.
We have the highest number of goals received from set pieces, yet he's absolved from fault?
You do realize Herrera and Fellaini are different position to Bruno right?
Again - if he didn't have the "net" funds he shouldn't have gutted the squad. Simple as.
I was considering starting a thread on this. I keep seeing this sort of excuse for Ole but there's absolutely no way the 18 players in our match day squad are worse than theirs. I was at the game yesterday and I thought Burnley were really poor yesterday, just stringing a few passes together looked hard for them when we were closing them down. Yet it finished 2-0 to them!? It's absolutely scandalous.
We completely dominated that game with our better players. Martial and Mata should have scored. Also with the amount of possession we had we should have been able to create a lot more chances than we did. Pereira did nothing but get in the way of everything which killed off everything that went near him. If we had a world class player in that area of the pitch, the forwards would have had a lot more chances at goal.
I am now clear in my mind that Pochettino should be appointed in the summer.
Sadly I have chosen the first option.
I would agree on that but with this squad, I'm skeptical.
Some of our players look at times uncoachable.
Gone with the second option but if Poch is available now, first option definitely.
Burnley are a truly terrible team, there is no excuse to lose or even draw against them. If it happens it's simply a failure which admittedly happens to everyone from time to time but can't be excused by the "wasn't backed argument".
Whilst I’m all understanding that sacking Ole is ultimately the correct move because he isn’t good enough, it concerns me that that is primarily where we are directing our frustration.
The real issue is Woodward. And, to be fair, not his own fault either. He’s destroying our football strategy (do we have one?) and whilst we can all act like we are top upstanding people and suggest he should eat some humble pie, accept failure, and resign from the football operations, it’s completely understandable that he doesn’t - be it for ego, financial gain, or anything.
The real issue is our owners - and no, to be clear, it’s not because of their recent lack of investment or sucking the club dry of money (except maybe in the Fergie years - we could debate that another day). The fact is the amount we pay our players and the amount we’ve paid to acquire them is a lot. The issue isn’t WHAT we have spent. It’s HOW we have spent.
And that incidentally directly correlates to the point about Woodward.
At this stage it’s not about sacking Ole, Woodward, or hoping for a new owner. In my view, the fix is in plain sight.
Fix step 1: We need someone (call them a DOF, if you want) who works with the manager and Woodward to deliver a clear strategy and ethos for our football. With a strategy you know what type of player you need. With that you need to go find them. So...
Fix step 2: Fix our scouting department. Have a look at who we are employing right now. A complete mish-mash of individuals from the last few years all interlinked with their corresponding managers who all had different playing styles. There is no point in having the best scouts in the world if they all pull in different directions.
The reality is this isn’t a short term fix. And it requires a big revamp. Which is why it isn’t happening. But without it, we won’t proceed. Sacking Ole or not.
The real issue is Woodward. And, to be fair, not his own fault either. He’s destroying our football strategy (do we have one?) and whilst we can all act like we are top upstanding people and suggest he should eat some humble pie, accept failure, and resign from the football operations, it’s completely understandable that he doesn’t - be it for ego, financial gain, or anything.
The real issue is our owners - and no, to be clear, it’s not because of their recent lack of investment or sucking the club dry of money (except maybe in the Fergie years - we could debate that another day). The fact is the amount we pay our players and the amount we’ve paid to acquire them is a lot. The issue isn’t WHAT we have spent. It’s HOW we have spent.
And that incidentally directly correlates to the point about Woodward.
At this stage it’s not about sacking Ole, Woodward, or hoping for a new owner. In my view, the fix is in plain sight.
Fix step 1: We need someone (call them a DOF, if you want) who works with the manager and Woodward to deliver a clear strategy and ethos for our football. With a strategy you know what type of player you need. With that you need to go find them. So...
Fix step 2: Fix our scouting department. Have a look at who we are employing right now. A complete mish-mash of individuals from the last few years all interlinked with their corresponding managers who all had different playing styles. There is no point in having the best scouts in the world if they all pull in different directions.
The reality is this isn’t a short term fix. And it requires a big revamp. Which is why it isn’t happening. But without it, we won’t proceed. Sacking Ole or not.
The biggest issue , as many have pointed out before, is actually the mentality of the players.
Look at Chelsea Arsenal yesterday. As crap as those teams played, they were actually giving effort. You could see on everyone at the pitch that they were emotional and had passion for the game.
Disregard how OGS seems to lack some tactical knowledge, disregard how lacking our squad is, but too many times this season our players just look numb and muted.
They dont have any urgency about them, they dont have the killer attitude. And I am betting a big part of that is because OGS keep calling them «boys», «lads», «young» etc. They dont get any pressure from him at all. Its like we’ve gone a full 180 from where Mourhino was.
You cant expect them to play with the right attitude when your boss makes excuses for you every time you fail.
You cant get them to feel that a loss is catastrophic when all the manager says is «i will back them nomatter what». They are treated like kids and therefore they act like kids. And no matter how badly they play they still get to play next match.
OGS needs to put every player that underperforms on the bench, just look at what happened to Rashford when he got kicked out of Englands starting XI.
I dont care if he plays the full U23 team and lose 5-0, I am pretty sure they will show alot more attitude than this current crop.
Look at Chelsea Arsenal yesterday. As crap as those teams played, they were actually giving effort. You could see on everyone at the pitch that they were emotional and had passion for the game.
Disregard how OGS seems to lack some tactical knowledge, disregard how lacking our squad is, but too many times this season our players just look numb and muted.
They dont have any urgency about them, they dont have the killer attitude. And I am betting a big part of that is because OGS keep calling them «boys», «lads», «young» etc. They dont get any pressure from him at all. Its like we’ve gone a full 180 from where Mourhino was.
You cant expect them to play with the right attitude when your boss makes excuses for you every time you fail.
You cant get them to feel that a loss is catastrophic when all the manager says is «i will back them nomatter what». They are treated like kids and therefore they act like kids. And no matter how badly they play they still get to play next match.
OGS needs to put every player that underperforms on the bench, just look at what happened to Rashford when he got kicked out of Englands starting XI.
I dont care if he plays the full U23 team and lose 5-0, I am pretty sure they will show alot more attitude than this current crop.
I have gone with the second option because the season is clearly over, no new coach is retrieving this. We should have acted when we lost at Newcastle because that's when he proved he isn't good enough but now with 8 days left in the window what do we hope to achieve with a new coach without a chance to realistically bring in an improvement or two?
He is employed to manage these players but he is so set on favouring others at the expense of players who could be useful. So whilst the playing squad is awful he still hasn't exhausted all the options he has because he wants to keep recycling all those who have let him down before.
I think it's easier to look at our squad and just let the feeling of doom encompass you but Ole simply hasn't helped himself. His supporters say he has no options when he plays Lingard and Pereira but Gomes isn't getting a look in whilst Greenwood can't even get a start with Rashford out.
He is employed to manage these players but he is so set on favouring others at the expense of players who could be useful. So whilst the playing squad is awful he still hasn't exhausted all the options he has because he wants to keep recycling all those who have let him down before.
He's like a cat that's been beaten to death. At some point you have to do it quickly.
I never absolved him of anything, his team has been very poor at defending set pieces which means he is obviously not attending to it properly. But the fact remains that this defence has been one of the best at defending in open play. Our clean sheet situation is partially due to De Gea which makes the defence look worse than it is.
Also no, I have no idea who Fellaini and Herrera even are. My (seemingly obvious) point was that we were light in midfield and should have signed a midfielder. Bruno Fernandes can play box to box like Herrera, but I was obviously using him as an example of someone we could have signed that would have improved the squad. McTominay seemingly had Herrera's position well handled so we needed someone with an attacking threat given that only Pogba can play that role well in our current squad.
Pretty sure you can't do it quickly after you've already beaten it to death.
Went with the first option as we could still potentially get CL with a competent manager.
Except other managers have succeeded relative to what Solksjaer is doing, and they also had this board. How do explain the distinctly lower vein percentage under Solksajer compared to even Moyes? @Regulus Arcturus Black has repeatedly posted this stat and yet we still have this drivel being posted on every page.
When we were light in midfield and it is clear to everyone on this board and fan of the club you don't spend 80m pounds on CB when you have 7 of them already only to send one of them on loan. That's called priorities and it's on him.
What the feck does best at defending in open play mean? We are one of the worst in scoring from open play and have the largest amount of goals scored from penos this season, is that even a category?
Fact is Leicester have conceded 5 less than us, despite selling us their best defender. Sheffield coming from the Championship have conceded 6 less than us. Even Palace who sold us AWB has conceded 1 less than us and you have the decency to call it a progress?
I was relieved when Moyes and Mourinho were sacked. Even though Ole clearly isn't working I won't feel the same when he is eventually sacked, and he will be sacked, because I know now we'll continue to decline under this board and ownership.
Can we please ban oppo fans from voting. They take the piss on every vote.
I'd rather not. Let's have the deluded one that want Ole to finish the 'plan'. Named and shamed
Not that I think Ole is doing a good job, but football is not a staightforward zero-sum-game.
To beat teams that are worse than you consistently in a stacked EPL calendar you cannot just rely on some better players on paper. You need a team to gel, you need quality options for rotation etc otherwise teams can become more coin flippy.
You concede that 0:1 on a set piece, it can happen - had you still fit quality on the bench you might turn it around and players might have the belief they can turn it around. But if you bring on Lingard, what message does that send...
And of course the pressure for everyone involved is also bigger at United than at Burnley. Injuries to key players in an already thin squad will mess with a team in transition and many young, inexperienced players like United and likely show in the results under any manager.
That's not to say there's not a bunch of managers out there able to do a better job than Ole. But people on here obviously get very emotional after disappointing and unexpected defeats so things are coloured more black and white when there's actually a grey area.
Just because Ole might not be good enough (and his post match press conference seemed bereft of any confidence or determination to be able to turn things around) it does not mean that there is not these other factors that affect performances quite heavily (Injuries, lack of experience).
Woeful, dreadful, clueless, uninspiring, boring.
Can’t see many kids today deciding to support United over other teams and asking mummy for a shirt for Christmas.
How will this affect attendances and revenue in ten years time.
When you see how this board works, they spend big on players like Pogba, Lukaku and Fred but wont be held to ransom over decent players. To think the Poch is out there and they are going to let him slip through their fingers.
I half expected them to show Fergie walking out after 85 last night. I bet he wanted too.
Can’t see many kids today deciding to support United over other teams and asking mummy for a shirt for Christmas.
How will this affect attendances and revenue in ten years time.
When you see how this board works, they spend big on players like Pogba, Lukaku and Fred but wont be held to ransom over decent players. To think the Poch is out there and they are going to let him slip through their fingers.
I half expected them to show Fergie walking out after 85 last night. I bet he wanted too.
Because the squad is getting significantly worse over time, clearly. Also, Ole is quite obviously building for the long term, so you're going to take a hit in the short term with regard to wins.
But even still, he shouldn't be losing games like that, last night.
But yes, the fact the squad is now into its 4th manager since Fergie, and 4th different type of manager too (long ball -> possession -> park the bus and win at all costs -> play young players, play on counter with pace). With each new manager came a new philosophy, came new players. Ultimately was borne a complete mish-mash of a squad. So it's not too surprising that results will ultimately suffer. Then, Ole is building for hte long term. Placing emphasis on youth. That's how I explain the lower win percentage.
I'm not excusing it though. I've been trying to be positive. But I'm really, really struggling after last night.
What is your point here? I am struggling to understand. All that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. We are talking about the defence and I am referencing a statistic that implies that our defence compares favourably to others in the league. You are free to use the scoring from open play statistic for your own ends, but I am not saying our attack is solid. I am saying our defence is solid.
All those teams you mentioned have conceded fewer total goals than us, but that is because we are the worst at defending set pieces. Those teams are all worse than us at defending from open play. Given the fact that the vast majority of time in a match is actually open play, I'd say that our defence compares favourably to theirs.
Our defence is 2nd best in the league at defending from open play. Don't you have the decency to admit that is a positive? Or would you rather stick to your dogma even when presented with a rational arguement.
I'm sorry, but our defence is not solid. You can't just cherry pick your stat based on how the goals were scored. Just because we concede a lot from set pieces ... that makes our defence solid? Defending from set pieces isn't primarily the task of the defence? No offence mate, but it's a rubbish point. Whatever way you look at it, our defence is not solid. I have not looked up the stats, but I'd be very surprised if we're even in the top half of number of clean sheets in the league.
"we've conceded the least goals scored with left foot. Solid defence."
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