Well, this is your opinion which I respectfully disagree with. When I compare our team to other rivals, I strongly believe we are good enough to at least put a title challenge this year. Hopefully it happens.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Well, this is your opinion which I respectfully disagree with. When I compare our team to other rivals, I strongly believe we are good enough to at least put a title challenge this year. Hopefully it happens.
I got this wrong. Actually United have amassed more points than any other team since Bruno was signed, 51 points. He's actually turned United into title challengers from nowhere. If he gets injured we're fecked. If he stays fit we might actually challenge this season. Also United are on a 9 league game away winning run. The record is 11 by Chelsea and City. Our next 3 away games are Sheff Utd, Leicester and Fulham.
I think all three are winnable! Hopefully we win them and stay within top four for a long period of time.. I’m not convinced with Ole, we need some consistency. Hopefully he can pull it off!
Allison
TAA VVD Maguire Robertson
Fabinho Thiago
Salah Bruno Mane
Rashford
It’s not even debatable that those 8 Liverpool players would have gotten into our XI as obvious upgrade. Even if we replace VVD with our player, Liverpool still have 7 players. You can call it opinion, if I ask you and lot of people in here to do combine XI with our 4231 formation right now, you and others will have the same or something similar. Even someone like Wijnaldum not in that XI is above Donny in pecking order in national team.
We aren’t treating them as invincible gods. They have better players, their players are more proven & have done it for years than ours. They don’t win PL & CL and supported with number of goals & assists in years and play more regular in national team than some of our players for sensible reasons. And their players are still in the prime age.
I agreed with that until he said he had to sub as they were injured so it wasn't tactical at all. They may have stayed on longer or not been subbed at all. Either way the result could have been different
Sure, just to be bailed out by the so-called average players again. Was outplayed at the time of my posting thoroughly. I hope that from now on, those posters who say our squad is shite will be silent. If anything, the last game showed that pound for pound Moyes is a better manager than Ole. We are extremely reliant on individual brilliance rather than collective effort. That is the huuuge difference between Ole-level managers, who would have hardly been approached by any mid-level team in any top league if they had been fired, and the elite ones.
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So what you are saying is that if Moyes had been given the job at United, we would be at the top ? Moyes has hit good form with this West Ham-side just now - and take into the equation that this is the first time since his Everton-days that Moyes has had a team in really good form.
He wasn't good at Sociedad, at United, he was a disaster at Sunderland, he was poor in his first spell at West Ham - and now he has won 13 out of 35 games at West Ham.
Finding a bit of form for a short period of time and being a good manager is not the same thing. Moyes has been poor for 7 years.
Ole's tactics are simple. He throws Bruno in the deep end and he hopes that all turn down ok. I wonder what happens if god forbid Bruno picks an injury.
No. The overwhelming majority of opposition fans want Ole to stay forever. His continued presence at the club worries absolutely nobody outside of the people who actually have hopes of United winning the league anytime soon.
I wonder what happens if RVP got injured in 2013, if Rooney got injured in 2011, if CRon got injured in 2008, if RVN got injured in 2002, if Cantona got injured in 1996.
We always have a talisman. Other than 1999, we’ve always relied on an individual player. This is what building a team around your best player is.
We certainly wouldn't have our arse spanked by a small EPL club managed by a failed manager. Prior to Fernandes we made West Ham look like prime Barcelona and Moyes look like prime Pep. Bowen was cutting into our 145m+ defences like Messi. Then the manager came in the same half and voila he sorted everything. There again maybe Ole need time to reform defence/midfield. Maguire erm, Telles erm, AWB erm, Henderson erm, McT erm, Greenwood erm, VDB erm, ok Lindelof is certainly not his player.
Under the greatest manager of all, when Cantona got banned in 94/95 we didn't win the league, when Keane did his ACL in 97/98 we didn't win the league, when Rio got banned in 03/04 we didn't win the league. Same when he exiled Stam in 01/02. Top players make a difference.
You must be a delight in real life.
Totally agree. Suddenly the standard of LFC last year and Barcelona a couple of year ago is the only acceptable standard. Today no team except of maybe Bayern perform on a consistent very high level.
Yes.. We are Man Utd, but come on folks. Perfection is easy in theory, but changing things big time is definitely a high risk - which some fans seem to forget.
Actually I am. Just ask those who met me personally.
Does that has anything to do with football or are the Ole ins resorting to personal attacks?
In 94/95 we ended second 1 point away from Blackburn while in 97/98 we ended up second again 1 point away from Arsenal. Were would we end without captain/manager ?
Ole was able to spend over 250m and that on top of quality players coming from the youth academy (Rashford, Henderson, Greenwood) AND players who were already here (Martial, Pogba etc). We shouldn't be a 1 man team.
Why are we debating the manager in a live game though, hes not playing? He rested two-three key players, other than that it was a pretty standard line up. It was not like he made some completely mental team selection or had everyone play out of position
Go back to page 922(ish), right when WH score. These are not thought out, reasonable posts from people that "feel that the club will be better off in the short to medium to long term if the manager's replaced," Its purely reactionary, emotional bile
This judging a manager by a game to game basis is stupid enough, but the fact that posters starts sharpening their knives in a live game, is very telling. Their mindset is that when things go south, its all on the manager and when we actually turned it around the predictable "individual brilliance" excuse was wheeled out again. Where was the individual brilliance in first half? Didn't the players get their individual brilliance injection before HT?
Judging by the tone and content of their posts, i am pretty confident these type of posters desperately want Ole to do badly (and by extension the club), so they can be proven right. They dont want what is best for the club then. Even if they truly do want what is best for the club, why cant they show support when things are going badly as well? Are they only capable of showing support when things are going smoothly?
The weirdest thing is that right now we are in a pretty good period. Four league wins in a row and despite us losing to PSG in the midweek it was a good game vs a very good team. If we were in horrible form right now, i could understand that people were moaning, but the fact that people jump on him the second we go under speaks volumes.
People really need to take a step ack and just do some numbers in their heads. Leaving aside the last 4 seasons, where the PL winner got 90+ points ,late 90s in the last 3), the PL winner generally ends up on 85-88 odd points.
Now assuming, the winner would lose 5 games in the season, the team would have a record like P38 W26 D7 L5. So, basically, we're saying the champion team has had 12 games in 38 where they dropped points. In terms of consistency, you're dropping points roughly every 3rd game or so.
Add to that, if a team has had 12 games where they've dropped points, it's a fair assumption that there would have been 5-6 odd games where they'd drop points to a mediocre side (and there would obviously be games where they'd have dug deep to get something out, not be a convincing win or anything, but a win nonetheless).
What has happened is since this is looking more like a season where normalcy is returning in terms of results after a pretty long time, people have forgotten that big teams drop points all the time
Now assuming, the winner would lose 5 games in the season, the team would have a record like P38 W26 D7 L5. So, basically, we're saying the champion team has had 12 games in 38 where they dropped points. In terms of consistency, you're dropping points roughly every 3rd game or so.
Add to that, if a team has had 12 games where they've dropped points, it's a fair assumption that there would have been 5-6 odd games where they'd drop points to a mediocre side (and there would obviously be games where they'd have dug deep to get something out, not be a convincing win or anything, but a win nonetheless).
What has happened is since this is looking more like a season where normalcy is returning in terms of results after a pretty long time, people have forgotten that big teams drop points all the time
Me too. Can you imagine Liverpool and City fans faces. They have the best managers in the world and they lose a league title to Ole Gunner Solskjear. They’ll be getting it.
I’ll lead the campaign. A lot of you guys lack the wit and Charisma to do us justice. Well @sammsky1 would do a good job.
You.... you just relax.
It’s just funny how your arguments get more and more deranged as our points total continues to grow. Your bitterness is about anything but football
It’s just funny how your arguments get more and more deranged as our points total continues to grow. Your bitterness is about anything but football
Then tell me what is my 'bitterness' all about?
The reality is that we're riding upon our luck and at the back of 1 player. That despite the manager being allowed to spend shit loads of money and can rely on top quality players from previous managers AND the youth academy. Soon enough it will all come tumbling down and the crush won't be pretty at all.
I hope we will too, and I think it should be considered a massive success if we do.
A load of bitter rantings. We’re winning games and you’re losing the plot. You should go and “support” another team, since you obviously can’t deride any joy from watching United.
We still have nowhere near the quality we had elsewhere in those sides of the past which still had many results like this, losing 3-1 to Fulham at home:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/3206852.stm
"United did not get a look-in for the opening 20 minutes".
£250m really isnt that much when average sides like West Ham are spending £100m+ themselves. We used to out spend them by higher multiple at our peak, hence the difference in quality back then.
I'm here for the reaction when Ole signs an extension over Christmas. I'll have to first remove a couple dozen posters off my ignore list to get the full effect though.
I hope he gets the extension at the end of the season, rather. He deserves it undoubtedly, but want players to play with fear this season that if they lose a game, Ole will be sacked - which seems to be working so far this season
Forums are there for debate so if you're searching a place were top red lemmings limit themselves in high fiving one another then you're in the wrong place. The result was great but its evident that this side is poorly coached and poorly managed. We shouldn't have been schooled by West Ham in the first half as we did and we shouldn't be so reliant on 1 player. I am a 3rd generation United fan. In my nearly 35 years of supporting United I've never seen us so dependent on 1 player as we're now and that include during our time with Eric. It borders to the ridiculous.
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West Ham didn't had top quality players like DDG, Martial and Pogba to rely upon + it hasn't produced players like Greenwood, Rashford and Henderson from the youth academy. This side is not perfect but it is competitive. Sir Alex would certainly win the league with such funds and players.
You can't say that for certain he'd have won the league when he lost it to City in the past even before them and Liverpool were putting up 95+ points seasons.
For certain if he'd have stayed on the squad wouldn't have been in such a mess by December 2018 but that's a different story.
Don't get me wrong now. I'm not saying now Klopp is a bad manager. He is clearly very good. But why do we need to compare Solskjaer to him every time? Klopp have won league once in five years. If it is about comparing we could aswell compare with Ranieri. He made Robert Huth look like Maldini and Danny Drinkwater like prime Gatusso.
You say something intressting. It is about system. Klopp needed 4 years to get the system right. People want to get rid of Solskjaer and demanding we play best football ever after his 2nd whole season. Fans need to calm down. To expect unrealistic targets make this place exactly what it looks like. Toxic. So called fans, wich a refer as Fooball Manager players, need to come back to reality.
On TAA, I agree that Klopp has a big part of his development but you don't think he was a great talent regardless? Did Rijkard made Messi the player he is? Nothing to do with talent, I imagine?
On Robertson, it is possible for great players to play for poor teams in the early stages of their careers, you know?
In general, I agree that Liverpool are not invincible but let's keep things in perspective and acknowledge they have a great set of players.
Every team that have great player will be affected by loss of their best player. As you said, where would we be without them? Where would Barcelona be without Messi? Real and now Juventus without Ronaldo, PSG without Neymar, Milan without Ibrahimovic, Bayern without Lewandovski. Should we continue?
I think it is only brought up because some people are really trying hard to bring that negativity around Solskjaer. They are right that he would be missed. But their goal is not to tell you that, their goal is to get Solskjaer more negativity.
I think the current form is unsustainable. Winning games late, producing patchy performances, etc. We've managed to turn Brighton, Southampton and West Ham into 3 wins. That's been crucial. 9 extra points.
Eventually, we'll come across a team who shut the door on us when on top. Brighton and West Ham both failed to do that.
We need to stop conceding the 1st goal and take more control of games.
Build on these bonus wins and stop with the bipolar mess we've become. I still think a better manager/coach and staff extract the extra consistency we need to compete at the very top again. But for now, Ole can't be sacked based on results alone. Performances are a different matter.
Eventually, we'll come across a team who shut the door on us when on top. Brighton and West Ham both failed to do that.
We need to stop conceding the 1st goal and take more control of games.
Build on these bonus wins and stop with the bipolar mess we've become. I still think a better manager/coach and staff extract the extra consistency we need to compete at the very top again. But for now, Ole can't be sacked based on results alone. Performances are a different matter.
Two arguments from both sides (Ole in /out) I keep reading which amuse me every time:
1.) “We are top of the table since the January transfer window.”
Well, that still “only” makes us the best of the rest. Liverpool had nothing to lose since January until the end of the season. Same for City, they were going to end up 2nd, not better, not worse. So why should both team have continued with the same intensity and concentration? It is still a very good achievement by us but doesn’t really show that we have done better than last season’s top 2.
2.) “Ole should thank Bruno.”
Well he got Bruno to save our season and succeeded.
Another manager was in a similar situation 6-7 years ago and then got Mata in January (our club record signing back then) but he failed to make any difference at all. Don’t forget that before joining us Mata was a very good player at Valencia and at Chelsea under three different managers (AVB, Di Matteo, Benitez).
It seems like Bruno was one missing link in our team. But Ole has managed to integrate him quickly and made the team to link up well with him. After all he is not creating, assisting and scoring all our goals on his own, winning all our penalties, playing DM role(s) and defence. At least some of his teammates do play well and link up well with him as well. What we now need is one quality winger to share the attacking responsibility with him and Rashford and we will look better and less reliant on those two.
After all pre Bruno, and with Pogba being such an inconsistent and moody player, who exactly should have provided the attacking sparks? Mata? Lingard? Pereira?
I keep reading here how apparently every player gets worse after joining us and improves after leaving us, so surely Ole should get praise (and not stick) for Bruno’s ongoing impact? Here’s hoping we get a good winger soon (or Amad steps up quickly once he is here, or Pellistri, but we still need a ready made winger) who ends up being as important a signing for us as Bruno.
1.) “We are top of the table since the January transfer window.”
Well, that still “only” makes us the best of the rest. Liverpool had nothing to lose since January until the end of the season. Same for City, they were going to end up 2nd, not better, not worse. So why should both team have continued with the same intensity and concentration? It is still a very good achievement by us but doesn’t really show that we have done better than last season’s top 2.
2.) “Ole should thank Bruno.”
Well he got Bruno to save our season and succeeded.
Another manager was in a similar situation 6-7 years ago and then got Mata in January (our club record signing back then) but he failed to make any difference at all. Don’t forget that before joining us Mata was a very good player at Valencia and at Chelsea under three different managers (AVB, Di Matteo, Benitez).
It seems like Bruno was one missing link in our team. But Ole has managed to integrate him quickly and made the team to link up well with him. After all he is not creating, assisting and scoring all our goals on his own, winning all our penalties, playing DM role(s) and defence. At least some of his teammates do play well and link up well with him as well. What we now need is one quality winger to share the attacking responsibility with him and Rashford and we will look better and less reliant on those two.
After all pre Bruno, and with Pogba being such an inconsistent and moody player, who exactly should have provided the attacking sparks? Mata? Lingard? Pereira?
I keep reading here how apparently every player gets worse after joining us and improves after leaving us, so surely Ole should get praise (and not stick) for Bruno’s ongoing impact? Here’s hoping we get a good winger soon (or Amad steps up quickly once he is here, or Pellistri, but we still need a ready made winger) who ends up being as important a signing for us as Bruno.
I don't think anyone would say that we deserved to get anything vs BHA, I think we deserved a point yesterday (we were pretty good in the 2nd half). However, I just can't agree with the Southampton assessment. We were a much better side than them, and even though we went down by 2, I think, the scoreline didn't really reflect what was going on in the game.
As for the performances bit, I think since the Spurs debacle, I don't think there's been a game where you can say we didn't deserve anything. If anything, I'd say we were slightly better in the Chelsea game, the Arsenal game was forgettable one where scoreline of 0-0 would have been more apt
what?
We deserved all 3. Yes we were pretty crap for 60 minutes, but we twatted WHU in that last 30 and utterly dominated the game in a way West Ham hadn’t come close to.
Just because West Ham were better than us for 60 minutes doesn’t mean they deserved a point.
No your not doing the maths correctly here at all. The way it works is you count all the goals u ited scored, ignore any chances we missed and then compare it to all of the chances West Ham had.
I love Ole, but like I said after PSG game - had the easy chances been finished, the game was done. Before the 60th min, they missed 3 golden opportunities - Fornals miss, Haller slip and the Soucek miss in the 2nd half. Its a different story that we may have even scored 5 in the last 30 mins if we were trailing by that much, but how often does that ever happen
How likely is it that a team finishes every chance they get?
Does Rashford’s shot on the post count?
Do I think United deserved a point vs. PSG? No. We played pretty well for large parts of the game but ultimately deserved to lose.
Yesterday wasn’t a smash and grab, we took over the game and steamrolled them in the last 30 or so minutes.
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