Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Plymouth Red]

When I see stats that say we're the top team this season for points away from home but we're 17th in the league for home form, I can't get my head around it. I also struggle with understanding how our form can fluctuate so wildly within 90 minutes, because today wasn't the first time we've had to retrieve a losing position.
It's great that we can, otherwise we'd be battling to stay out of the relegation places.
By now, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the coaches to have got to the bottom of the problem and worked out a way to eradicate it.
Feels like Ole is not able to get us out of this Masochist United rut we're stuck in.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Just saying mate, you take Bruno and Rashford out of that squad and we saw what happens today. Martial doesn't look like he's going to cut it at a top club, Pogba was tragic for 60 minutes, VDB was okay but plays too many short passes. No one took the game by the scruff of the neck and organised the midfield and told the attack to get in behind until Bruno came on. We need more of that on the pitch.

But that’s where some doubts creep in you see, because some managers are able to keep performances up even when important players are out and can make a Newcastle midfielder (Wijnaldum) or Henderson look brilliant, or get the Ox to take a game by the scruff of the neck. Their tactics/system appear to allow the effect of big players missing to matter less.
The doubt is that Bruno just maybe United’s most important squad member, where there is little doubt that Klopp is Liverpool’s most important, (Just as SAF was for us), if that makes sense?

But you make some very valid points pal regarding unrealistic expectations. Although I don’t think most see it that way, most would be happy with us being consistently 3rd all season, close enough to the top even if not in a title race and plenty of good football even if not every week.
At this point in Ole’s tenure, that’s all I want and expect, and I’m confident it is for most who have doubted him. (Just maybe not the loudest ones). That’s why I’m happy enough now, and why I can still enjoy a defeat to PsG.

 

[owlo]

I'll preface by saying I feel he is a poor manager, has made poor signings, and plays shit on a stick football a large percentage of the time. I've been consistently OGS out, and am still so.

That said, it's a results business. The players don't seem to overly hate him, and as long as he keeps us around where we are in the league and competing in the cups; it's hard to argue that we require an immediate and drastic midseason change.

I wouldn't let him spend more money, I wouldn't want him long term, I wouldn't even overly allow him to drive contract renewals. But I'd let him continue for now whilst properly planning his replacement.

 

[crossy1686]

No, but that’s where some doubts creep in, because some managers are able to keep performances up even when important players are out and can make a Newcastle midfielder (Wijnaldum) or Henderson look brilliant, or get the Ox to take a game by the scruff of the neck. Their tactics appear to allow the effect of big players missing to matter less.

But you make some very valid points pal regarding unrealistic expectations. Although I don’t think most see it that way, most would be happy with us being consistently 3rd all season, close enough to the top even if not in a title race and plenty of good football even if not every week.
At this point in Ole’s tenure, that’s all I want and expect, and I’m confident it is for most who have doubted him. (Just maybe not the loudest ones).

I hear what you're saying but he's had the benefit of having those lads for 4 to 5 years now, and although most of us never rated Wijnaldum at the time, Klopp must have seen something in him to know he could do a job in the system he wants to play. I think Ole's biggest downfall is that we don't have a solid recognisable 'brand' of football that we play.

If he coined some Norwegian term for our style of play and sat in pressers talking about double pivots and inverted wingers his PR would be very different. I think the other teams are 5 years into a project also and are well drilled by the manager at this stage, anyone that couldn't get the system has been moved on. We're still in the thick of dealing with that sort of stuff.

If that's the expectation for most doubters then I think it's fair as long as it's caveated with remembering how far we've come in a short space of time with essentially other managers players + Bruno until this summer. I think we're not far off it though, most of us said at the start of the season by the time the 10th game of the league comes around we'll be at match fitness and finding better form/consistency. Let's hope we start to pick up wins on a regular basis moving forward now.

 

[crossy1686]

I'll preface by saying I feel he is a poor manager, has made poor signings, and plays shit on a stick football a large percentage of the time. I've been consistently OGS out, and am still so.

That said, it's a results business. The players don't seem to overly hate him, and as long as he keeps us around where we are in the league and competing in the cups; it's hard to argue that we require an immediate and drastic midseason change.

I wouldn't let him spend more money, I wouldn't want him long term, I wouldn't even overly allow him to drive contract renewals. But I'd let him continue for now whilst properly planning his replacement.

All the bolded parts are stuff you've made up.

And you've essentially said you wouldn't sack but you wouldn't let him do anything a manager is supposed to do so you're essentially sacking him and keeping him on?

 

[iato89]

People dont like being wrong.

Are even watching our poor performances or just the results? We cant keep playing this badly and keep winning, luck will run out like it did vs psg, arsenal istanbul etc.

 

[lysglimt]

I'll preface by saying I feel he is a poor manager, has made poor signings, and plays shit on a stick football a large percentage of the time. I've been consistently OGS out, and am still so.

That said, it's a results business. The players don't seem to overly hate him, and as long as he keeps us around where we are in the league and competing in the cups; it's hard to argue that we require an immediate and drastic midseason change.

I wouldn't let him spend more money, I wouldn't want him long term, I wouldn't even overly allow him to drive contract renewals. But I'd let him continue for now whilst properly planning his replacement.

I am sure you can question his tactics, his managerial skills etc - but his signings ? Seriously ? Which signing was it you didn't like ? Diallo, Bruno, AWB, Cavani, Telles, Pellistri ?

 

[AshRK]

What about the players? There was nothing wrong with our starting 11. Yes we rested a few but that 11 was still far stronger than Westham. Why is Ole to blame? The team was sloppy and players Ole trusted to give him a performance let him down.

It's not always the manager. These players get away with murder.

We blow hot and cold. When we play good we look unstoppable but then there are moments we don't look good. Not blaming solely that on manager but also on players, but that has to be fixed. We still concede silly goals. I understand we cannot have 90 perfect minutes but when you look so clueless for 50 mins there is an issue.

And this is not about all on Ole and players walking away from any criticism. I care about the club and we need to fix it.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

We blow hot and cold. When we play good we look unstoppable but then there are moments we don't look good. Not blaming solely that on manager but also on players, but that has to be fixed. We still concede silly goals. I understand we cannot have 90 perfect minutes but when you look so clueless for 50 mins there is an issue.

And this is not about all on Ole and players walking away from any criticism. I care about the club and we need to fix it.

There's a whole host of reasons why this keeps happening. One that isn't talked about is freshness. We keep playing energetic teams who have had the week off whilst we've been in Europe. That really doesn't help our cause either.

51 pts to Liverpool's 50 since Bruno's debut. Same games played. That's progress. The end.

 

[R'hllor]

fecking hell this forum these days, dunno which side is worse. Both obnoxious to the bone in different ways, sometimes extreme Ole in bunch can make you wish that Ole gets sacked tomorrow, while wishing Ole to stay in charge forever regardless of results just to see how Ole out crowd can choke on their dislike for the man. Difference between them is that one side is real about their dislike while other is a bunch of deluded sheep, hooked onto Ole like leeches.

Actually it reminds me of friend of mine who was/is such a huge fan of Beckham, he couldnt stop mentioning him, was brought up in every conversation, he single handedly drove whole street to dislike Bechkam because of him.

 

[Dve]

 

[troylocker]

Can you tell me what Ole did today? Our players bail him out yet again. Ole is stealing a living.

You are actually the captain of Moanchester United. Do you think our players share your view on this? Would you dear to say your opinion in the United wardrobe after the match? That haters use this thread instead of the match thread to bash Ole every time we go behind is sickening.

What did Ole do? He understandably wanted to rest a couple of key players today, as we have a more important game on Tuesday. The original gameplan didn’t work out, so he changed it, made two subs at halftime and changed to more direct passing and faster transitions. With great success.
Nine straight away wins in the Prem, in the last five of them we have come from behind....

Some quick yes/no’s:
Are we as consistant as we want to be? No
Are we frustrating to watch at times? Yes
Was our football under Moyes, LVG and Moyes a joy to watch? No
Is our squad better than Liverpool, Chelsea or City’s? No
Are we 4th? Yes
Are we still in the league Cup? Yes
Are we still in the CL with one match to go in a group with two semifinalist from last season? Yes
Sackable status by Dec. 5 2020? No

Do we still need to improve the squad? Yes
Will that improve the consistancy and results? Probably

 

[el3mel]

I do agree that people shouldn't really post during halftime in this thread talking about sacking the manager. Makes it really weird whenever we win at the end of it. At half time and only 0-1 down anything was possible. Express frustration maybe, but asking to sack the manager during half time will put you in a tough spot in front of others if we win later on.

 

[Shark]

You are actually the captain of Moanchester United. Do you think our players share your view on this? Would you dear to say your opinion in the United wardrobe after the match? That haters use this thread instead of the match thread to bash Ole every time we go behind is sickening.

What did Ole do? He understandably wanted to rest a couple of key players today, as we have a more important game on Tuesday. The original gameplan didn’t work out, so he changed it, made two subs at halftime and changed to more direct passing and faster transitions. With great success.
Nine straight away wins in the Prem, in the last five of them we have come from behind....

Some quick yes/no’s:
Are we as consistant as we want to be? No
Are we frustrating to watch at times? Yes
Was our football under Moyes, LVG and Moyes a joy to watch? No
Is our squad better than Liverpool, Chelsea or City’s? No
Are we 4th? Yes
Are we still in the league Cup? Yes
Are we still in the CL with one match to go in a group with two semifinalist from last season? Yes
Sackable status by Dec. 5 2020? No

Do we still need to improve the squad? Yes
Will that improve the consistancy and results? Probably

Our squad is easily at it's strongest since SAF stepped down, easily. Also it's highly debatable that it's worse in quality to the teams you've mentioned. Maybe if you were talking about City two to three seasons ago. Liverpool's squad isn't phenomenal, they have a world class attack and Klopp is a top class manager who makes sure the rest is also ticking despite being below par in parts. Chelsea are also still a work in progress despite looking star studded on paper.

 

[R'hllor]

People are dressing up the unrealistic expectation of a 100% win rate this season while playing the best football they've ever seen at United as a *minimum requirement for a United manager all of a sudden, I have no idea where this set of expectations have come from. I think Liverpool winning the league has broken a lot of people who are yet to recover.

I think the consistency issue is most likely new players of a similar ability to Bruno and Rashford are needed. We saw it today, as clear as you like. As soon as they came on, Bruno led the midfield and even managed to drag Pogba into the game who had been a passenger. Greenwood was coming deep for the ball until Bruno had a go at him and told him to run in behind, after that West Ham looked stretched.

We don't have enough of these leaders on the pitch.

What a nonsense ott claim.

 

[Matt851]

I still very much think our manager is nowhere near good enough. We have good players who can produce brilliant moments but no style or structure hence the wild inconsistency

Micheal Cox was tweeting earlier about how dreadfully organised we are and its hard to disagree

There is process. Process means step by step. You don’t go from born baby to walking man means you don’t just look at points as the progress because there are deeper things you could actually view it. If you don’t understand that and you can’t see it then I can’t help you.

 

[el3mel]

You are actually the captain of Moanchester United. Do you think our players share your view on this? Would you dear to say your opinion in the United wardrobe after the match? That haters use this thread instead of the match thread to bash Ole every time we go behind is sickening.

What did Ole do? He understandably wanted to rest a couple of key players today, as we have a more important game on Tuesday. The original gameplan didn’t work out, so he changed it, made two subs at halftime and changed to more direct passing and faster transitions. With great success.
Nine straight away wins in the Prem, in the last five of them we have come from behind....

Some quick yes/no’s:
Are we as consistant as we want to be? No
Are we frustrating to watch at times? Yes
Was our football under Moyes, LVG and Moyes a joy to watch? No
Is our squad better than Liverpool, Chelsea or City’s? No
Are we 4th? Yes
Are we still in the league Cup? Yes
Are we still in the CL with one match to go in a group with two semifinalist from last season? Yes
Sackable status by Dec. 5 2020? No

Do we still need to improve the squad? Yes
Will that improve the consistancy and results? Probably

I honestly don't see anything special about Liverpool's squad. They're better than the sum of their parts. This season I think we're definitely on bar with Liverpool, Chelsea and City teams. City have been mostly dreadful this season and I bet you we'll defeat them again next derby.

 

[blemis]

I am telling you , if you sack him right now & get Allegri , you guys are going to win the league this season, no messing about and no need to wait for "rebuilding" to be completed .Your squad is good enough for it , just need a tactically astute manager to tweak here and there to perform well consistently.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Nothing has changed.

If you’re Ole in - it’s 3 points although another slow start but a win is a win and Bruno is Bruno. 4th after 10 isn’t great but it looks a lot better than a few weeks ago.

If you’re Ole out it’s another lucky display. Henderson’s pass was out (confirmed now by a few sources) and we scrap our way back from being shite for 60mins against a team we should comfortably beat.

This thread is set to go on until eternity.

 

[AshRK]

There's a whole host of reasons why this keeps happening. One that isn't talked about is freshness. We keep playing energetic teams who have had the week off whilst we've been in Europe. That really doesn't help our cause either.

51 pts to Liverpool's 50 since Bruno's debut. Same games played. That's progress. The end.

I am generally an optimistic and.look for positives but I didn't like today's performance but I am super happy with the 3 points. I understand you have to grind results and we did that today.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I am generally an optimistic and.look for positives but I didn't like today's performance but I am super happy with the 3 points. I understand you have to grind results and we did that today.

I didn't like first half either. However luckily I understand there's 90 mins in a football game and you rarely ever dominate for whole game. Same as I realise to not ask for our manager to be sacked after 3 games of a season like some balloons did on here. Few months later and we are right near top.

We have probably the worst fan base in football. Some brilliant fans of course too but we've got way too many plastic cry babies. Wish they'd go support somebody else tbh.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Nothing has changed.

If you’re Ole in - it’s 3 points although another slow start but a win is a win and Bruno is Bruno. 4th after 10 isn’t great but it looks a lot better than a few weeks ago.

If you’re Ole out it’s another lucky display. Henderson’s pass was out (confirmed now by a few sources) and we scrap our way back from being shite for 60mins against a team we should comfortably beat.

This thread is set to go on until eternity.

If he can prove me wrong and win a title (even league cup) then I feel I might be wrong and he could fight for more titles in the future.

 

[Tom Cato]

First time we've won the first 5 away games since 1983.

Extend the club record for successive away wins to 9 games. The Premier league record is 11 games.

 

[troylocker]

Our squad is easily at it's strongest since SAF stepped down, easily. Also it's highly debatable that it's worse in quality to the teams you've mentioned. Maybe if you were talking about City two to three seasons ago. Liverpool's squad isn't phenomenal, they have a world class attack and Klopp is a top class manager who makes sure the rest is also ticking despite being below par in parts. Chelsea are also still a work in progress despite looking star studded on paper.

So you don’t think Alisson is a great goalie, VVD is a world class CB, TAA and Robertson are great wingbacks, Fabinho is a great DM or Thiago would walk into our midfield? Those are just average pieces in Klopps brilliantly coached patterns of play?

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Potentially a couple of season defining games ahead.

Leipzig - After winning the first two games, against the hardest teams in our group, it was ours to lose. Bottled it against Instanbul and made a foolish error keeping Fred on against a meddling PSG team. We lose against Leipzig then it’s an almighty bottling and face going into an Europa League where the amount of games hardly sounds encouraging for our league form.

City - A win against City and suddenly we’re serious contenders this season. It’s very, very early days and I won’t ignore that but after hitting some league form, we may be on to something. It’s incredible how we’re only a couple of points off top but that’s the state of the league this season. Alternatively, our luck may run out and we get absolutely shafted by them.

I’m expecting a draw vs Leipzig and a slender defeat to City.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

So you don’t think Alisson is a great goalie, VVD is a world class CB, TAA and Robertson are great wingbacks, Fabinho is a great DM or Thiago would walk into our midfield? Those are just average pieces in Klopps brilliantly coached patterns of play?

Even Wijnaldum is regular midfield in Netherlands national team while Donny who people want him to play more is only a rotation option in national team. VVD, their full backs and both Thiago & Fabinho would have start in our XI right now.

 

[troylocker]

Nothing has changed.

If you’re Ole in - it’s 3 points although another slow start but a win is a win and Bruno is Bruno. 4th after 10 isn’t great but it looks a lot better than a few weeks ago.

If you’re Ole out it’s another lucky display. Henderson’s pass was out (confirmed now by a few sources) and we scrap our way back from being shite for 60mins against a team we should comfortably beat.

This thread is set to go on until eternity.

This team has beaten Leicester 0-3 away, taken 1 point against City and Spurs, came from three straight wins and we met them in London......comfortably, sure every time

 

[sammsky1]

 

[el3mel]

So you don’t think Alisson is a great goalie, VVD is a world class CB, TAA and Robertson are great wingbacks, Fabinho is a great DM or Thiago would walk into our midfield? Those are just average pieces in Klopps brilliantly coached patterns of play?

VVD is out for good this season.

TAA and Robertson honestly Klopp made them who they are. Robertson was coming from a relegated Hull side, iirc.

Liverpool have a good squad for sure otherwise they wouldn't have won the league but I really see nothing that special about their squad that made them comfortably better than ours this season, I repeat, this season.

And results wise it's shown anyway. We aren't far from them at all.

I really hope people stop treating City and Liverpool as invincible gods because they aren't anymore this season.

 

[Shark]

So you don’t think Alisson is a great goalie, VVD is a world class CB, TAA and Robertson are great wingbacks, Fabinho is a great DM or Thiago would walk into our midfield? Those are just average pieces in Klopps brilliantly coached patterns of play?

Yes I do, however Ole has also inherited and signed players of a similar quality or what he deemed as. He has Henderson as backup to DDG which is embarrassment of riches in that department, Maguire is surely the equivalent of VVD in terms of status and transfer fee. AWB and Telles are also highly rated full backs and Fred, Matic, Pogba and VDB may not equal Thiago and Fabinho but it's not not exactly a huge drop in quality.

 

[troylocker]

VVD is out for good this season.

TAA and Robertson honestly Klopp made them who they are. Robertson was coming from a relegated Hull side, iirc.

Liverpool have a good squad for sure otherwise they wouldn't have won the league but I really see nothing that special about their squad that made them comfortably better than ours this season, I repeat, this season.

And results wise it's shown anyway. We aren't far from them at all.

I really hope people stop treating City and Liverpool as invincible gods because they aren't anymore this season.

I agree that they are not invincible, but their squads are still better than ours. I also think Chelsea has a better squad than us, and that is why I think our realistic expectations should be to fight for top 4. Anything better than 4th would be overachieving with this squad given that context.

 

[adexkola]

So you don’t think Alisson is a great goalie, VVD is a world class CB, TAA and Robertson are great wingbacks, Fabinho is a great DM or Thiago would walk into our midfield? Those are just average pieces in Klopps brilliantly coached patterns of play?

Yeah they are all average players magically elevated by Klopp's magical system. Ditto for Pep.

 

[Trondivan]

Just stop. He made a bad selection and made the right changes at half time. Thats ok in my book.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Yeah they are all average players magically elevated by Klopp's magical system. Ditto for Pep.

You joke, but when you read about some of the details Klopp and his coaches put into their decisions, you'll realize it's not that far from the truth with regards to a lot of Pool players. Pep is similar but the other way around.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Yeah they are all average players magically elevated by Klopp's magical system. Ditto for Pep.

Nothing magical about it. SAF won a league with the exact same squad Moyes was set to finish 7th with just a matter of months later. Managers absolutely do elevate players.
Kagawa, Mikhi, Götze, Şahin... all examples of players who looked pure gold under Klopp but ”meh” when they left him.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

It looks like Ole is capable of building a team from scratch. If we add players like Haaland, Grealish and Sancho next summer we maybe on to something. Ole tried to sign 3 of them this summer. With our very good academy players coming up too.

Haaland will solve striker quality problem. Martial is not ready to lead the line. Grealish will complement Bruno especially if he is rested/injured.

This year target should still be Top 4 and good run in the CL at least last 8. If not Ole should be replaced in the summer.

 

[meamth]

You never know he could win a league. If he does they need to give him a gold trophy!! Would be the biggest achievement in world football.

And the most humbling and humiliating "I told you so" moments in here..

I wish that day will come.

 

[rotherham_red]

It wasn't a great 60 or so minutes and I honestly couldn't tell you why that was the case. We literally didn't run or make any off the ball movement during that first hour, which as we all know is the modus operandi of a Utd team under Ole. That inconsistency in application needs to be improved as it just can't carry on in this manner.

Here's hoping for us to ride a crest of a wave and get the result that we need versus Leipzig.

 

[He'sRaldo]

It wasn't a great 60 or so minutes and I honestly couldn't tell you why that was the case. We literally didn't run or make any off the ball movement during that first hour, which as we all know is the modus operandi of a Utd team under Ole. That inconsistency in application needs to be improved as it just can't carry on in this manner.

Here's hoping for us to ride a crest of a wave and get the result that we need versus Leipzig.

It's always appreciated when one can still be critical and analytical despite being in favour of keeping the manager.

As someone who leans towards replacing Ole, I'll reciprocate by adding that someone else mentioned what to me was a very good point. The poster said that Ole seems to have created a style which doesn't work all the time, but when it works, it does so to devastating effect. It may even be possible that Ole's more flexible style is Kryptonite to a lot of teams that live and die by a more rigid philosophy.

The issue is that we need to gain consistency of performances from somewhere and, for the recent 90+ points teams, consistency has come from a very micromanaged style of play. It's hard to see us hitting such heights without a similarly drilled team, which is why even though I enjoy the devastating nature of Ole's team, I would also like to see him get a coach who can really drill possession play for when we need it to grind out points, as well as people who can look after the finer details of our play such as set pieces and 2nd balls.

 

[Morpheus 7]

I really think we would be top of the league with a better coach. Ole deserves credit for gutting out a lot of the squad he's inherited. This league is open and it's there for someone to take. I personally think the man is out of his depth, majority of United fans I know feel the same. Interesting to see a huge contrast to that in here. I just don't understand how some can't see it still. Glad we are winning, hope he proves me wrong. My gut feeling hasn't let me down when it's came to United unfortunately. I just find the denial of obvious things odd in here. Like it's not his fault Fred got sent off. Bringing on Cavani was masterstroke against Southampton. He's been fluking by on individual moments for ages, Bruno is masking so many glaring problems in my opinion.