Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Transfermarkt squad valuations (independent, not my pessimistic opinion) puts us 4th in the PL. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/spieler-statistik/wertvollstemannschaften/marktwertetop

Yet you’re already admitting you’d be happy with 5th. Go figure.

Liverpools squad is “worth” so much BECAUSE their manager is that good, don’t you see that?

They rate Trent at 100m, Andy Robertson at 67m... increases all across the board on Klopp’s signings or youth products.
Meanwhile OGS signings are plummeting in market value. Maguire for example by half.

That’s because of Ole, how can you not fecking see that? Excusing Ole having the second most expensive squad because his shit management has them all plummeting in value is another brilliant one in fairness @Leftback99

The worse Ole does, the more the value of these players plummet, it’s a great way to judge a manager.
I’m sure our squad value halved between Fergie retiring and Moyes getting fired.

 

[Leftback99]

Yet you’re already admitting you’d be happy with 5th. Go figure.

I never said I'd be happy, just what I see is most likely by my own assessment. We all want an over achieving manager but every team can't have one it's impossible.

 

[OrcaFat]

Yet you’re already admitting you’d be happy with 5th. Go figure.

Liverpools squad is “worth” so much BECAUSE their manager is that good, don’t you see that?

They rate Trent at 100m, Andy Robertson at 67m... increases all across the board on Klopp’s signings or youth products.
Meanwhile OGS signings are plummeting in market value. Maguire for example by half.

That’s because of Ole, how can you not fecking see that? Excusing Ole having the second most expensive squad because his shit management has them all plummeting in value is another brilliant one in fairness @Leftback99

Are you suggesting Klopp is better than Ole? Get outta town.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Are you suggesting Klopp is better than Ole? Get outta town.

Top managers make their squads more valuable, shit ones make the value plummet.
SAF -> Moyes the perfect example of this.

Yet somehow the plummeting value is an excuse for Ole rather than another damning stain on his time here.

The plummeting value of Maguire alone is why Chelsea are above us in the table @Leftback99 sent of market value. Excuse after excuse.

 

[justsomebloke]

I'm firmly behind the strategy of patience & rebuild. The results this season is not the main thing. I don't subscribe to the view that this is United and anything other than dominance is unacceptable. That's just an empty sense of entitlement. If we're serious about winning, then things have to be done properly and you have to accept that the squad isn't good enough when it isn't.

But that doesn't automatically mean OGS should be backed indefinitely and at all cost. There has to be progress - in terms of performance, and in terms of establishing a clear system and style of play. And on those points, much more than on the results, this season has not been positive so far. The transfer window is a big part of it, in that obvious needs were not addressed and OGS was left with a squad which is badly suited to sustaining the formation they're using - too many central midfielders, too few wingers (of adequate quality). Between that and the apparent vulnerabilities in central defence, there appears to have been a shift towards a more cautious style of play. This is not where we should be heading, however understandable the adjustment is given the defensive shambles of the first three games. And the overall performance levels of the team, offensively as well as defensively, seem decidedly lower this season than they were post-January last season.

Mainly because of that, I'm significantly less convinced about the progress of the project now than I was in August. Still backing Ole to continue though.

 

[Leftback99]

Top managers make their squads more valuable, shit ones make the value plummet.
SAF -> Moyes the perfect example of this.

Yet somehow the plummeting value is an excuse for Ole rather than another damning stain on his time here.

The plummeting value of Maguire alone is why Chelsea are above us in the table @Leftback99 sent of market value. Excuse after excuse.

Latching onto some arbitrary figures now to try point score. Unless you know what they all looked like this time last year its a pointless debate, the total of our squad shows an increase in the table of all teams.

I can't take you seriously when what 10 PL games ago you said this:

Improvement has been so good since mid-December that he should and will be in for another season regardless of what happens in the next 5 games.
All you can really expect from a manager is for them to learn and improve, and there’s no doubt our second half of the season has been night and day from the first.
Delighted for him.

We all make knee jerk comments, there will be a few from me too, but no doubt you will swing the other way again if we win a few.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We all make knee jerk comments, there will be a few from me too, but no doubt you will swing the other way again if we win a few.

That’s a bang on comment.

But a new season has started as shit as the last.

Sticking to a point despite evidence is idiotic, so unlike you my mind has always been open and I’ve always been desperate for Ole to prove me wrong.

 

[Sky1981]

No. I’m saying a lot of people would cite our poor start to the season as clear-cut evidence that Ole isn’t good enough and needs to go, but generally they wouldn’t make the same call for Pep.

Same results gets the best manager in the business sacked, while the other worst manager got a free pass.

Therein the different.

If city and united ended up 8th and 7th respectively everyone would rightly says pep is finished, while listing 100 excuses for ole.

 

[Leftback99]

That’s a bang on comment.

But a new season has started as shit as the last.

Sticking to a point despite evidence is idiotic, so unlike you my mind has always been open and I’ve always been desperate for Ole to prove me wrong.

Same way I'm happy to be proved wrong if we sack him and suddenly turn into a top team again under the next guy.

My guess is we'll make a change at the end of the season.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

CVs are very important. We've been shit post Fergie but it's no coincidence our highest achievement came from one of greatest managers of all time.

Ole has two separate CVs one is his record of being a United player. This makes him understand the club and know what it needs and this has reflected as our recruitment has been the best post Fergie.

The other is him being a manager at Molde and Cardiff. Let's change Ole's name to Fredik. Cardiff were relegated during Fredik's time with them and they performed poorly in the championship and though he won 3 trophies in Norwegian league with Molde his last one was seven years ago. This one shows that in no reality is Fedrik ever good enough to coach one of the biggest clubs in the world. In what world would people think this guy along side highly rated or accomplished managers like Pochettino Brendan Rodgers Allegri Rose etc is actually the one that will get the best out of our squad.

Ole has a tough task trying to convince people he's good enough because his CV suggests he's far from it ad he hasn't done anything in his time at United to suggest otherwise.

I've said this before but you look at Zidane who was underqualfied for the Madrid job, he's had to win 3 champions league in a row and the La Liga without Ronaldo for people to actually rate him. Zidane had to set himself apart from former Madrid managers and other potential Madrid managers and do something spectacular for people to actually rate him and even then some still attribute his success to individual brilliance and Barcelona's decline.

Guardiola also was underqualfied for the Barcelona job. But he convinced people by also setting himself apart from former Barcelona managers and other potential Barcelona managers by implementing arguably the most dominant style of play in football and making that Barcelona team one of the best in history

Now what has Ole done to set himself apart from his predecessors and potential United managers? He's not going to convince people until he does something spectacular and we will continue to remain divided until then

 

[Nou_Camp99]

We only won 3 of our first 10 games last season and finished 3rd. This time we've won 4 from 8. If we beat Southamton and Westham then it will be 6 wins from 10 which is a decent start.

People need to understand the situation. The disruption to our season at the start can't be underestimated. Don't think we'd lose to Palace if we played them this weekend coming and I don't think we'd lose by 6 to Spurs either. Fitness and lack of sharpness was a huge issue and personally feel we got thrown under the bus by the PL. Same as City who 'coincidently' are also struggling. Hmmmm it's almost as if the teams who went further in Europe are being punished.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I never said I'd be happy, just what I see is most likely by my own assessment. We all want an over achieving manager but every team can't have one it's impossible.

Is getting 4th over achieving?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We only won 3 of our first 10 games last season and finished 3rd.

In every other Premier League season we’d have been miles off 3rd though, the points total was so low.
History tells us we simply won’t get away with that again.
Southampton and WHU away are incredibly tough games, especially with the way we are playing.

 

[M16Red]

We only won 3 of our first 10 games last season and finished 3rd. This time we've won 4 from 8. If we beat Southamton and Westham then it will be 6 wins from 10 which is a decent start.

People need to understand the situation. The disruption to our season at the start can't be underestimated. Don't think we'd lose to Palace if we played them this weekend coming and I don't think we'd lose by 6 to Spurs either. Fitness and lack of sharpness was a huge issue and personally feel we got thrown under the bus by the PL. Same as City who 'coincidently' are also struggling. Hmmmm it's almost as if the teams who went further in Europe are being punished.

Our open play is crap, that is a facts here and it's not getting better and has been poor for a long time. I watch a lot of footy and we are crap to watch.

 

[Bilbo]

I’m totally aware lots of things have improved. The makeup, balance and depth of our squad. Our league position and accomplishments last season were good on the face of it all but unfortunately the biggest metric I measure against is what I see on the pitch.

Sure, we’ve had some fantastic performances but we’ve had so many more clueless, insipid and lifeless performances surrounding them.

So we know the players can do it. I think we’ve got a really good squad, yes it could always be improved but I think it’s our best squad in years.

So why do we watch so many matches with us looking toothless? For me, that is the manager. Why do we still struggle to break teams down? Why haven’t we seen some improvement on how we deal with teams who sit back? Why aren’t these things changing? Because these are the details that will move us from scraping 4th and qualification for the CL, to 3rd, then 2nd and eventually title winners.

In my view we’ve plateaued. Oles done a good job. I’ve lost belief that he can take us further.

Thats fair enough. Good post. However could I ask a genuine question? How much do you think your view is influenced by the fact that we've just come off of a dull 1-0 scrappy victory? Did you feel the same way after the Everton win? After the PSG and RBL wins?

I'm not trying to suggest that you are kneejerking by the way. Just that perhaps the nature of a football fan is to be tilted by the most recent performance (which i guess is the same as kneejerking, but without the negative connotations)

 

[rotherham_red]

 

[Bilbo]

3 nasty PL games ahead I see.

Southampton away
WHU away
City home

Moyes might get him the sack, feck me how depressing.

Surely Bilbo, Zen, Leftback et al understand that this start is fecking depressing for us all, we’d all love to be proven clueless idiots and I for one was delighted we clinched top 4. I wanted nothing more (and still do) for Ole to start well and have a cracking season.
If Ole smashes it from here on out and Bilbo wants to gloat about RAB the moron, fecking awesome, I’m game.
I just wanna see United play good football more often than not, with our expensively assembled squad it really is the least we should expect.

I never gloated last season, despite the temptation to do so. There's no point. Managers are always 2 games away from being idiots all over again, and fans are too quick to forget to good moments

 

[rotherham_red]

In every other Premier League season we’d have been miles off 3rd though, the points total was so low.
History tells us we simply won’t get away with that again.
Southampton and WHU away are incredibly tough games, especially with the way we are playing.

Why? This season tells us that the league table is even more fractious and compacted than it ever was last year. Win our game in hand and we're joint 5th with Southampton FFS.

 

[M16Red]

And here we are... 3rd is a high point?

 

[slyadams]

I was one who never wanted Ole to be appointed in the first place and nothing I've seen since has convinced me otherwise. We're now expecting, excusing and rationalizing mediocrity. Do I think Ole is solely to blame? Not at all. Do I think a better manager could do more with these players? I'm 100% certain of that. This isn't a PL winning squad, but it is a top 4 squad and whilst we did get 3rd last season, we cannot deny there were some freakish events that got us there and I can't see us finishing ahead of all of Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and City this year. 5th is the best we can hope for, 6th is where I reckon we'll end up.

 

[M16Red]

Why? This season tells us that the league table is even more fractious and compacted than it ever was last year. Win our game in hand and we're joint 5th with Southampton FFS.

If Place win today they will move up to 7th, as the goal difference is higher. our goal difference is -1 ! Also Southampton play today...

FFS indeed.

 

[soapythecat]

Ole isn’t an inspiring figure. Neither is Carrick who is as dull a personas they come. My point to this is that they are 2 of the biggest figures on the coaching staff. I haven’t seen much from McKenna to comment on him but Phelan does have something about him at least.
Collectively they don’t appear to inspire much confidence or elude much passion or fight. Our bench looks disinterested and lacklustre - are they like this on the training ground too?
I’m highly suspicious of the whole team and given they all lack credible experience (Phelan aside), then it wouldn’t be a out there to suggest this is a problem.
Having spent a career in the military, I don’t see anything from Ole that would have me digging out for him.
It’s going to be a long season before this lot are out of the club, but I don’t see us being top 4 come the end so they will have to go.

 

[Danimancer]

Is Ole the best manager out there? No!
Do we need the best manager out there? Would be nice if it is possible (who though??)
Has Ole done a good job in terms for recruitment policy? Yes, emphasis has clearly been on bringing in youngsters that hopefully will be the stars of the future
Should Ole remain our manager? More merited managers have lost their jobs for less, but panic changes solves little
So what should we do? Ole should move on to a DoF role, overseeing us remaining true to the values of the club, continuing the great work we have done with your youth transfers of late. A better manager can then be brought in, focusing on improving our senior team's play

Naturally, life isn't this easy...

Ole isn’t an inspiring figure. Neither is Carrick who is as dull a personas they come. My point to this is that they are 2 of the biggest figures on the coaching staff. I haven’t seen much from McKenna to comment on him but Phelan does have something about him at least.
Collectively they don’t appear to inspire much confidence or elude much passion or fight. Our bench looks disinterested and lacklustre - are they like this on the training ground too?
I’m highly suspicious of the whole team and given they all lack credible experience (Phelan aside), then it wouldn’t be a out there to suggest this is a problem.
Having spent a career in the military, I don’t see anything from Ole that would have me digging out for him.
It’s going to be a long season before this lot are out of the club, but I don’t see us being top 4 come the end so they will have to go.

 

[M16Red]

Ole isn’t an inspiring figure. Neither is Carrick who is as dull a personas they come. My point to this is that they are 2 of the biggest figures on the coaching staff. I haven’t seen much from McKenna to comment on him but Phelan does have something about him at least.
Collectively they don’t appear to inspire much confidence or elude much passion or fight. Our bench looks disinterested and lacklustre - are they like this on the training ground too?
I’m highly suspicious of the whole team and given they all lack credible experience (Phelan aside), then it wouldn’t be a out there to suggest this is a problem.
Having spent a career in the military, I don’t see anything from Ole that would have me digging out for him.
It’s going to be a long season before this lot are out of the club, but I don’t see us being top 4 come the end so they will have to go.

Don't worry pal, Carra will train them. Rashy and Tony will bang them them.

That's Oles' best buddy method working, just get Jonesy a new contract and we'll be fine.

 

[Bilbo]

That’s a bang on comment.

But a new season has started as shit as the last.

Sticking to a point despite evidence is idiotic, so unlike you my mind has always been open and I’ve always been desperate for Ole to prove me wrong.

I've seen the same comment on here from a number of posters recently, always from people who were strong Ole out all season until we finished strongly. Posters who then backtracked and said Ole deserved another season.

"My mind is always open"

It isn't though. Really all you've done is reverted to type

 

[FatherWolff]

Ole's lead in the poll is falling like Trump's in Pennsylvania.

True. Everyone remember last years bad start. The man on the street was supportive, in her, in the real world, people where screaming ole out.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

The 'go get Poch guys' are very quiet though it can't be denied. Maybe because the guy we sacked and who Spurs replaced Poch with has them sitting top of the table.

Oh the irony....

 

[rotherham_red]

And here we are... 3rd is a high point?

No, but equally the sky isn't caving in after the horrendous start either which is what many are making the situation out to be at the moment.

 

[rotherham_red]

If Place win today they will move up to 7th, as the goal difference is higher. our goal difference is -1 ! Also Southampton play today...

FFS indeed.

Re Palace, we'll be level on points with them if they do so, or also Wolves if they won it but does it actually matter? We'd be 4 points from 1st place in any case.

And it's a good job we play Southampton next as well, isn't it? So we could leapfrog them AND still have a game in hand on them.

 

[Gomes]

I've seen the same comment on here from a number of posters recently, always from people who were strong Ole out all season until we finished strongly. Posters who then backtracked and said Ole deserved another season.

"My mind is always open"

It isn't though. Really all you've done is reverted to type

You can't even admit being wrong of people's posting history and you have the audacity to talk how people hope to be proven right on the Internet.
Stick to inventing new ways that you can "see the progress" or new time frames for analyzing point totals. How about last financial quarter? Makes as much sense as all the other nonsense.

 

[Flexdegea]

Pep can potentially attract a Messi... while Jose can attract a Bale or Ibrahimovic
That is the main advantage of having a world class manager that even if you are struggling some greats will come to play for them.

Ole can attract Cavani?


Because you are literally comparing similar past it players here with big statue

 

[M16Red]

Re Palace, we'll be level on points with them if they do so, or also Wolves if they won it but does it actually matter? We'd be 4 points from 1st place in any case.

And it's a good job we play Southampton next as well, isn't it? So we could leapfrog them AND still have a game in hand on them.

Not if they win.

Again goal difference, we'd need to score 6 goals if they lost today.

Maybe if Liverpool lose to Brighton on the Saturday and Chelsea / Tottenham lose will be hard though as they play each other..

 

[Wilt]

Jesus! This is the level we‘re now at ....talking about leaping or being level with West Ham, Palace, Wolves, Southampton....

 

[Bilbo]

You can't even admit being wrong of people's posting history and you have the audacity to talk how people hope to be proven right on the Internet.
Stick to inventing new ways that you can "see the progress" or new time frames for analyzing point totals. How about last financial quarter? Makes as much sense as all the other nonsense.

Im not sure what you mean exactly by that first sentence. Wrong of peoples posting history. What does that mean?

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Jesus! This is the level we‘re now at ....talking about leaping or being level with West Ham, Palace, Wolves, Southampton....

No the table doesn't matter after 8 games. It matters where you are after 30, 35 and then of course after 38 matches.

We will get better as the season goes on like last time out. The start of the season was a joke for us and City. I'm not the least bit suprised neither club has started that well. Going into a season without playing a single friendly which a good number of our players did was asking for it. The PL stitched us up and was a big reason why I said we should have tossed away the Europa league when we already had CL football secured after the final day.

 

[romufc]

Its been a shit start to the season. If you actually look at this season its been shocking.

No pre season
Off field issues for Maguire, AWB, Greenwood
Signings came 3 games into the season
Pogba and Telles Covid
Martial suspended for games
No consistency because of schedule - International break has ruined any consistency that teams can get because players are away and come back on a Thursday, have to get a test done and have 1 training session.

Not excusing Ole, he should be getting more out these players but I really hope we can now just get back to playing football and get players int he groove.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

The 'go get Poch guys' are very quiet though it can't be denied. Maybe because the guy we sacked and who Spurs replaced Poch with has them sitting top of the table.

Oh the irony....

Yeah, like that is going to change a lot of peoples minds.

 

[NJM78]

Was that free flowing football? RB fecking Leipzig dominated most of the game, but capitulated and made stupid mistakes near the end. Context. Apparently.

This.

 

[Flexdegea]

Jesus! This is the level we‘re now at ....talking about leaping or being level with West Ham, Palace, Wolves, Southampton....

Dramatic much?



8 games into the season. People are talking about where we are on the table. Literally not far away from the action.


You think was 8 games left in the season and we were trying to leapfrog them teams the way you made your entrance

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Yeah, like that is going to change a lot of peoples minds.

People on here are clueless in what they actually want. Guarantee most of the ones moaning will be doing same to the next manager. They have no patience because most of them are glory hunters and can't take United not being the best. It's mainly about their bragging rights and egos.

Ole is a lot more popular with match going fans than he is with the keyboard warriors. Most sensible people don't ask for a manager to be sacked 2 games into a season like they did on here.