Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Nou_Camp99]

Dramatic much?



8 games into the season. People are talking about where we are on the table. Literally not far away from the action.


You think was 8 games left in the season and we were trying to leapfrog them teams the way you made your entrance

Exactly. 5pts behind Chelsea with a game in hand.

Fans on here are clearly just not right in the head. People were calling for Ole to go after our 3rd league game ffs. These types of 'fans' are everything I hate about modern football. Brats.

 

[Volumiza]

Thats fair enough. Good post. However could I ask a genuine question? How much do you think your view is influenced by the fact that we've just come off of a dull 1-0 scrappy victory? Did you feel the same way after the Everton win? After the PSG and RBL wins?

I've already stated that I've been flip flopping for ages, way before the Everton game. Much as I love Ole and very much appreciate the squad he's put together I have long been unconvinced at his ability to get the best out of the players. We've seen some great performances, some lovely football but we've also repeatedly seen how easily we can be nullified. How incapable we have been at breaking teams down, this has been happening so often and with no visible remedy or improvement.

I want to see us playing football that looks like it has a purpose, a clear and recognisable system.

I'm not trying to suggest that you are kneejerking by the way. Just that perhaps the nature of a football fan is to be tilted by the most recent performance (which i guess is the same as kneejerking, but without the negative connotations)

No, I don't think I kneejerk as such. I've been flip flopping, teetering on one side then the other. Mainly because I've been willing Ole to succeed and there's been times where I've thought things had clicked but then, next match, back to square one.

And that's it for me. It's not the winning, the losing or the lack of trophies, its this feeling that things have stayed the same. We've got a good squad, with some good options so my view is that there are fewer and fewer places for Ole to hide now and the uncomfortable feeling for me is that he's reached a plateau. If he has another step in him, he needs to find one pretty smartish.

 

[Wilt]

Dramatic much?



8 games into the season. People are talking about where we are on the table. Literally not far away from the action.


You think was 8 games left in the season and we were trying to leapfrog them teams the way you made your entrance

Bollocks!! 8, 18, or 28 games ....it doesn’t matter anymore. This club is in decline and everyone knows it.

 

[Flexdegea]

Exactly. 5pts behind Chelsea with a game in hand.

Fans on here are clearly just not right in the head. People were calling for Ole to go after our 3rd league game ffs. These types of 'fans' are everything I hate about modern football. Brats.

He deserves the full season.


I'm not sure what the fuss is about. Convincing win against Everton after going behind. Wasnt great saturday there but as I said at the time should have been winning comfortably, had it won by couple goals at least. Still got the 3 points.

The front 3 hasnt even started yet which is a the main reason we had such a strong finish to last season.


In my eyes we are sitting good in league all things considering. Not far off the action and martial and Greenwood to get going again.


Can see us building into the season again like last time only this time we wont be miles behind the leaders.

 

[Flexdegea]

Bollocks!! 8, 18, or 28 games ....it doesn’t matter anymore. This club is in decline and everyone knows it.

Drama, no doubt about it

 

[Bilbo]

I've already stated that I've been flip flopping for ages, way before the Everton game. Much as I love Ole and very much appreciate the squad he's put together I have long been unconvinced at his ability to get the best out of the players. We've seen some great performances, some lovely football but we've also repeatedly seen how easily we can be nullified. How incapable we have been at breaking teams down, this has been happening so often and with no visible remedy or improvement.

I want to see us playing football that looks like it has a purpose, a clear and recognisable system.



No, I don't think I kneejerk as such. I've been flip flopping, teetering on one side then the other. Mainly because I've been willing Ole to succeed and there's been times where I've thought things had clicked but then, next match, back to square one.

And that's it for me. It's not the winning, the losing or the lack of trophies, its this feeling that things have stayed the same. We've got a good squad, with some good options so my view is that there are fewer and fewer places for Ole to hide now and the uncomfortable feeling for me is that he's reached a plateau. If he has another step in him, he needs to find one pretty smartish.

That's fair enough. Lets see where we are by year end. These are our league fixtures up to then:

Southampton (a)
West Ham (a)
City (h)
Sheff Utd (a)
Leeds (h)
Leicester (a)
Wolves (h)

If we can get out of our CL group and get a decent points haul out of that lot then we'll be in good shape going forwards

 

[Wilt]

Drama, no doubt about it

No drama, just fact

 

[Footy van de Geek]

People on here are clueless in what they actually want. Guarantee most of the ones moaning will be doing same to the next manager. They have no patience because most of them are glory hunters and can't take United not being the best. It's mainly about their bragging rights and egos.

Ole is a lot more popular with match going fans than he is with the keyboard warriors. Most sensible people don't ask for a manager to be sacked 2 games into a season like they did on here.

The fans who travel to away games would rather fall off a cliff with a manager than ever show any signs of disrespect.

Admirable to some people. But it's counter-intuitive at times. They are the ones paying big money to travel all around the country and abroad. They have a right to voice concerns when it's warranted. They don't have to wave white flags or handkerchiefs. But being a robot on one setting doesn't make them any better than people with opinions that aren't as black and white as manager in or manager out. You can support Ole while recognising his flaws, and can dislike Ole while giving him credit when he does something good.

I don't like Ole the manager. At all. But I have been just as vocal about all of our other managers when they have done wrong or made mistakes. Fans generally want what's best for the club. I couldn't care less about bragging rights over Liverpool fans. I wasn't smug when we were successful, and I won't be smug when we are again. People want to see a reasonable style of play with some consistency between performances. Not the extremes we have seen under Ole. Our bad is as bad as anyone's, while our best can be very intricate stuff at times. But you will rarely see us dominate for 60-70 minutes in a game. That's where most of the frustration comes from. It's coming up to 2 years now. We should be more consistent than what we are.

 

[Volumiza]

That's fair enough. Lets see where we are by year end. These are our league fixtures up to then:

Southampton (a)
West Ham (a)
City (h)
Sheff Utd (a)
Leeds (h)
Leicester (a)
Wolves (h)

If we can get out of our CL group and get a decent points haul out of that lot then we'll be in good shape going forwards

Nothing would please me more than being in a decent position come the year end. I have no personal desire for Ole to lose his job, my principles are really simple, like amoeba simple ... I want to enjoy watching our football on a more regular basis, win, lose or draw. For as long as Ole is our manager I will support him but I can't deny I've reached a point where a change might be good. Might not be though. Nobody is ultimately right in this discussion.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I've seen the same comment on here from a number of posters recently, always from people who were strong Ole out all season until we finished strongly. Posters who then backtracked and said Ole deserved another season.

"My mind is always open"

It isn't though. Really all you've done is reverted to type

You’re back in fantasy land I see? I clearly said as soon as he incredibly survived December that we may as well now give him the January window to see where he goes from there.

As soon as results pick up, you have to let a manager crack on. You don’t fire a manager when his results are improving.

You can check back and you’ll see that was always my stance. I wanted him gone in December, badly. He managed an acceptable season, thanks to a massively improved second half and even if he’d have finished 5th then I reckon he should have been kept on because “clear improvement” and upward trajectory.

Starting the following season just as poorly though, well, you have to start asking serious questions again, and the club will if he has bad results vs. Southampton, WHU & City. Rightly so.

Blind faith gets you nowhere.

 

[markhughes]

That's fair enough. Lets see where we are by year end. These are our league fixtures up to then:

Southampton (a)
West Ham (a)
City (h)
Sheff Utd (a)
Leeds (h)
Leicester (a)
Wolves (h)

If we can get out of our CL group and get a decent points haul out of that lot then we'll be in good shape going forwards

100% agree with this, the games above are all challenging fixtures but also winnable if we are able to play well. We should know by the end of the year where we stand and if things don't go well we bring someone in during the January window I guess. I imagine we will take around 12 points from the 21 available, will that be enough for Ole to survive?

 

[romufc]

Exactly. 5pts behind Chelsea with a game in hand.

Fans on here are clearly just not right in the head. People were calling for Ole to go after our 3rd league game ffs. These types of 'fans' are everything I hate about modern football. Brats.

Modern day fans will complain because the manager is not their flavour of the month, or because he smiles too much.

If players are not happy with the manager, his methods, training, do you think he would get big results when his job is on the line? No.

To me that suggests that within the group, there is not that much pressure, its all external from fans who will complain because they think playing Fifa or Football manager makes them brilliant managers.

 

[Bilbo]

Nobody is ultimately right in this discussion.

Amen to that

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I imagine we will take around 12 points from the 21 available, will that be enough for Ole to survive?

Nope, that got Mourinho the sack and will be the second year in a row for Ole with such a horrific start.

If Ole is to get through the season he’ll need to be closer to 30 points after 15 games. I think he needs 15 points or Ed will be knocking on Poch’s door.

 

[Volumiza]

I imagine we will take around 12 points from the 21 available, will that be enough for Ole to survive?

I'd expect to take slightly more than that really when you take into account the quality of our squad but more importantly, surely it depends on the manner with which we take those 12 points? Scraping through, just winning with sleepy and uninspiring performances will only drag out this conversation and won't help Ole's cause. Get them 12 points playing some good, confident and committed football and it becomes a more appealing 12 points.

 

[Bilbo]

You’re back in fantasy land I see? I clearly said as soon as he incredibly survived December that we may as well now give him the January window to see where he goes from there.

As soon as results pick up, you have to let a manager crack on. You don’t fire a manager when his results are improving.

You can check back and you’ll see that was always my stance. I wanted him gone in December, badly. He managed an acceptable season, thanks to a massively improved second half and even if he’d have finished 5th then I reckon he should have been kept on because “clear improvement” and upward trajectory.

Starting the following season just as poorly though, well, you have to start asking serious questions again, and the club will if he has bad results vs. Southampton, WHU & City. Rightly so.

Blind faith gets you nowhere.

I just dont believe that its been bad enough for anyone who said that he deserves another season to go full circle again. I dont see it, but thats me.

Call it blind faith or whatever you want to. Its a little insulting to claim that people dont have anything more than that to go on, but that's okay. That blind faith and delusion ultimately proved accurate last season and this time last year we had far fewer reasons to be optimistic.

I know that no amount of arguing will change anybodys minds about where they stand. Only results will do that. There doesn't appear to be any pressure on Ole at all from within the club, so come what may we are all going to find out what happens.

 

[Volumiza]

Modern day fans will complain because the manager is not their flavour of the month, or because he smiles too much.

Seriously, no one is against Ole because he smiles.

If players are not happy with the manager, his methods, training, do you think he would get big results when his job is on the line? No.

But in one sentence this explains one of my concerns. Why, when we have a quality squad, does it take for the pressure on Ole's job to get so great they have to pull a massive performance out for him? Why can't that be replicated more often? We've all seen how well these players can play so why can't Ole get them playing that way more often?

 

[Greck]

Yeah, like that is going to change a lot of peoples minds.

He doesn't realise Jose leapfrogging us on the table after only 6 months in charge is an embarrassment for Ole. Same guy talking about how the table after 6 games doesn't matter. Talk about a lack of self awareness

 

[Bilbo]

I'd expect to take slightly more than that really when you take into account the quality of our squad but more importantly, surely it depends on the manner with which we take those 12 points? Scraping through, just winning with sleepy and uninspiring performances will only drag out this conversation and won't help Ole's cause. Get them 12 points playing some good, confident and committed football and it becomes a more appealing 12 points.

You may be disappointed with that. We have 7 league games, 3 CL games and one League cup game in the next 5 and a half weeks. Its going to be a grind. Players are going to be fatigued. I think every team in Europe are going to find this period difficult to navigate. Ill take points however we can get them

 

[Flexdegea]

He doesn't realise Jose leapfrogging us on the table after only 6 months in charge is an embarrassment for Ole. Same guy talking about how the table after 6 games doesn't matter. Talk about a lack of self awareness

You finding it an embarrassment is on you.


I'm not sure what is embarrassing about it. Long long season ahead. Unless you already have spurs as champions elect.


Another case of peoples emotions running wild

 

[romufc]

Seriously, no one is against Ole because he smiles.



But in one sentence this explains one of my concerns. Why, when we have a quality squad, does it take for the pressure on Ole's job to get so great they have to pull a massive performance out for him? Why can't that be replicated more often? We've all seen how well these players can play so why can't Ole get them playing that way more often?

It's not only your concern. I cannot understand how we struggle to be more consistent. He can play one team on the weekend and win 4-0 and the same team the week after and we would lose or draw, the problem with this team is you know that a bad result is round the corner.

If we are looking at Southampton and West Ham as ify games, its not good enough. We need to go to these places and assert ourselves.

 

[Greck]

You finding it an embarrassment is on you.


I'm not sure what is embarrassing about it. Long long season ahead. Unless you already have spurs as champions elect.


Another case of peoples emotions running wild

That was my point. Read the page for god's sake. The original post isn't even that far up

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

He doesn't realise Jose leapfrogging us on the table after only 6 months in charge is an embarrassment for Ole. Same guy talking about how the table after 6 games doesn't matter. Talk about a lack of self awareness

You're going to find alot of hypocrites once a different manager takes over from Ole and is underperforming

 

[Volumiza]

Ill take points however we can get them

Ultimately so will I. But at some point dude, Ole is going to have to show us that he can elevate this group of players and form some kind of momentum and consistency regardless of schedules. Win well or win ugly, there's a time for both. We have an expensive squad and as I've said before, I like it and I see no reason this squad shouldn't be slugging away with the top teams.

 

[Crustanoid]

I do think a fair few people would have less stressful lives if they switched their allegiance to Liverpool. Or Juve, Bayern of any other team dominating. You can always switch back when we start winning stuff again with the added bonus that the rest of us don’t have to wade through the negativity

 

[Stacks]

I feel bad for him to be honest. He is trying but is a bit lost at sea. As it stands he is doing better than Pep so there's that!

 

[Volumiza]

I do think a fair few people would have less stressful lives if they switched their allegiance to Liverpool. Or Juve, Bayern of any other team dominating. You can always switch back when we start winning stuff again with the added bonus that the rest of us don’t have to wade through the negativity

I'd go further than that even. Some people on here don't even seem to like football itself and should maybe follow another sport. Anything that incurs so much anger can't be healthy.

 

[OleTheGreat]

If we need trophies then Poch ain't the man for that.

Cannot just judge him on the basis of Espanyol and Spurs (who reached the CL finals just FYI)

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

But in one sentence this explains one of my concerns. Why, when we have a quality squad, does it take for the pressure on Ole's job to get so great they have to pull a massive performance out for him? Why can't that be replicated more often? We've all seen how well these players can play so why can't Ole get them playing that way more often?

The team is complacent. It needs something to motivate them or a point to prove. Not just Ole's job under pressure but we've seen it during games too. We don't wake up till we concede or after the half time break probably after the hairdryer treatment from Ole. It's really frustrating but alot of our players have a weak mentality and I don't think Ole is the right character for them as he is just as passive or reactionary.

 

[Bilbo]

Ultimately so will I. But at some point dude, Ole is going to have to show us that he can elevate this group of players and form some kind of momentum and consistency regardless of schedules. Win well or win ugly, there's a time for both. We have an expensive squad and as I've said before, I like it and I see no reason this squad shouldn't be slugging away with the top teams.

I agree, and im sure that we will produce some good football in that period, but consistently? I think its unrealistic to expect that.

4 of our next 5 league opponents do not have European football in their schedules. They are going to be fresher than United, with more time to prepare tactically for that match.

These are not excuses, and this is not new or unique to United, and we will still be expected to win, but i think we should be mindful of that.

 

[justsomebloke]

Ole isn’t an inspiring figure. Neither is Carrick who is as dull a personas they come. My point to this is that they are 2 of the biggest figures on the coaching staff. I haven’t seen much from McKenna to comment on him but Phelan does have something about him at least.
Collectively they don’t appear to inspire much confidence or elude much passion or fight. Our bench looks disinterested and lacklustre - are they like this on the training ground too?
I’m highly suspicious of the whole team and given they all lack credible experience (Phelan aside), then it wouldn’t be a out there to suggest this is a problem.
Having spent a career in the military, I don’t see anything from Ole that would have me digging out for him.
It’s going to be a long season before this lot are out of the club, but I don’t see us being top 4 come the end so they will have to go.

Not sure you're right about that. He certainly isn't a charismatic media figure. He doesn't communicate well. He sticks to basically no message during interviews. He comes across as dour and contentless. And these things matter much more in England than they do in Norway, where being dour is generally seen as a sign of competence and seriousness. He's paying for that now, among other things because he hasn't really explained where he's heading and why he's been doing things the way he has. It'd be much easier to like and support him if he showed more thoughtfulness and verve in his comments, and more visible energy in the technical area. Ultimately though, that's just public perception and it's not central to the job he's doing. And there are upsides to that way of handling the media too: He consistently deflects attention and blame away from his players and his squads, either by taking the blame himself or by just not really saying much, content-wise. I think that's probably really important, since this is a squad that faces extremely high expectations, and is simultaneously the youngest squad fielded by any team in the top 6 european leagues last season. In effect, he's turning the meeting of expectations into a collective responsibility. That's smart. Especially after 2 1/2 years of the Jose Mourinho show in every post-game interview.

I'm not sure he's the same in the dressing room and on the training ground though. Given the ups and downs that have occurred, it's really quite remarkable that there has been no sign of player discontent. On the contrary, they seem to be behind him, to all appearances. I'd take that as a good sign.

 

[Volumiza]

It needs something to motivate them or a point to prove.

That is Ole's job. To prepare them mentally for each game as if it were a battle. That is what I don't see and why I'm spending less and less time blaming the players. Most of our squad, our starting 11 certainly, are damned good players.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

That is Ole's job. To prepare them mentally for each game as if it were a battle. That is what I don't see and why I'm spending less and less time blaming the players. Most of our squad, our starting 11 certainly, are damned good players.

One glance at our coaching staff on the bench and it's easy to see why we play without urgency at least half of the time

 

[Volumiza]

I agree, and im sure that we will produce some good football in that period, but consistently? I think its unrealistic to expect that.

The consistency I talk of isn't necessarily expecting world class performances each match. I'm old enough to know better. But I want consistency in attitude. Never say die. Not sloppy and aimless performances, even if everything we try doesn't come off. Does that make sense? I don't expect us to win or steamroller every team we play but I expect us to leave it all on the pitch.

These are not excuses, and this is not new or unique to United, and we will still be expected to win, but i think we should be mindful of that.

Of course, we've seen it countless times before over the years. It's how you handle it that counts. Win, lose or draw, it's the manner in which it happens that concerns me. I don't mind losing if we've given everything and tried everything during that 90 minutes. I'm not a fan of aimless and half arsed though.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

I've already stated that I've been flip flopping for ages, way before the Everton game. Much as I love Ole and very much appreciate the squad he's put together I have long been unconvinced at his ability to get the best out of the players. We've seen some great performances, some lovely football but we've also repeatedly seen how easily we can be nullified. How incapable we have been at breaking teams down, this has been happening so often and with no visible remedy or improvement.

I want to see us playing football that looks like it has a purpose, a clear and recognisable system.



No, I don't think I kneejerk as such. I've been flip flopping, teetering on one side then the other. Mainly because I've been willing Ole to succeed and there's been times where I've thought things had clicked but then, next match, back to square one.

And that's it for me. It's not the winning, the losing or the lack of trophies, its this feeling that things have stayed the same. We've got a good squad, with some good options so my view is that there are fewer and fewer places for Ole to hide now and the uncomfortable feeling for me is that he's reached a plateau. If he has another step in him, he needs to find one pretty smartish.

Very nuanced balanced posts Volumiza. Cheers.

 

[VP89]

The next run of PL fixtures will be a sterner test: Southampton, West Ham, and City with PSG/Leipzig in-beween.

 

[Plymouth Red]

The team is complacent. It needs something to motivate them or a point to prove. Not just Ole's job under pressure but we've seen it during games too. We don't wake up till we concede or after the half time break probably after the hairdryer treatment from Ole. It's really frustrating but alot of our players have a weak mentality and I don't think Ole is the right character for them as he is just as passive or reactionary.

I agree about the complacency. In many respects we have brought this upon ourselves by handing out contracts and extensions that are far better than on the pitch performance merits, making it attractive for the poorest performers to stay at the club for as long as possible.

Furthermore, when it's clear that a player has no future with us, we don't act decisively to get rid. The notion of free transfers to get them off the books doesn't seem to be pursued.
The result is a training ground with too many faces that are no longer wanted mixing with the younger/newer players we are trying to motivate to perform at the highest standard. In short, a recipe for disaster.

The big reset really hasn't happened, regrettably.

 

[b82REZ]

I agree about the complacency. In many respects we have brought this upon ourselves by handing out contracts and extensions that are far better than on the pitch performance merits, making it attractive for the poorest performers to stay at the club for as long as possible.

Furthermore, when it's clear that a player has no future with us, we don't act decisively to get rid. The notion of free transfers to get them off the books doesn't seem to be pursued.
The result is a training ground with too many faces that are no longer wanted mixing with the younger/newer players we are trying to motivate to perform at the highest standard. In short, a recipe for disaster.

The big reset really hasn't happened, regrettably.

The "reset/reboot" was just PR spin from the club as pressure was mounting on them to make wholesale changes.

Seems all it takes is a trip down memory lane and a few choice phrases to brainwash a large percentage of the fanbase into believe they are witnessing progress rather than watching us stagnate.

2 years in and the same tired, clichéd excuses are still being bandied about. If it was Roy Hodgson at the helm the calls to sack him would be louder, and from a larger amount of supporters.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

From today's press conference:

Ultimate long-term vision for United
“We don’t want one style of play, but to have players expressing their talents.”

United struggling against smaller sides
“The game decides what type of game it becomes. Always decided on moments."

This is our issue...no actual system, no ethos for how we play. Just 'go out and express yourself and we'll see what happens', which worked under Fergie, with top class, highly intelligent players and coaching.

 

[VP89]

I don't have a problem with setting out the team to suit the opponent, but at the same time we should be associated with a general system by default.

Also this quote is worrying:" “The game decides what type of game it becomes. Always decided on moments."
That's not what being a manager is about.