Sack Poch, he then needs to decide do I wait for the Utd or Real job. Sack Ole, not a club in the prem or championship offers him a job.....
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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I read it, offers some stats to provide context to our points, then you got upset and asked if I'd read what you wrote.
We're closer to relegation than under previous managers, yes.
But as I showed you, we're not really that much further off the top four, albeit with a worse squad (imo) and having played different fixtures.
To just say well we're lower down in the table so Ole is doing a worse job than Moyes/Van Gaal/Mourinho is just a baseless point devoid of any context whatsoever.
I have nothing against how we we're set up yesterday against stronger opposition. What we're we to do? Go all out and get slaughtered? The main issue with Ole are the games we are supposed to win. The worst game this season wasn't any loss either. It was the 1 1 against a 10 man Southampton. We we're clueless because we simply can't break teams that sit deep and its not going away until we sign another creative midfielder and a proven striker.
Er, we didn't. Two shots on goal all game, both in the first half, one a tame effort by McTominay from outside the box, one the goal itself. As usual, the ideologues don't want to look at evidence.
It's not so much putting together the attack that's the problem - it's the end product. Our buildup warrants more than our players are able to convert. I doubt anyone with eyes in their sockets will disagree that our attack is sub-par - but I can't agree that our tactics are to blame for this. Both because this is not what I'm actually seeing - and also due to statistics pointing towards a different problem. Spaces are being opened and opportunities created - but we simply can't convert these into actual chances and even when we do manage to get a shot in our players too often miss the target. We lack cool heads up front that are adept at teamply - and (not to mention!) goalscorers.
As for the Liverpool game - I can't fault anyone's "mindset" - we got so close to beating one of the best teams in Europe and it wasn't even a fluke. By the time we scored the first goal we deserved to be ahead - and by the time they scored theirs... Well they deserved it no questions - this draw was a fair result - but our team showed a lot of resolve during that second half more class to our defense than I've witnessed so far during Ole's reign - and I'm pretty sure Liverpool felt very lucky to get anything from it because despite their pressure not only did they struggle to break us down - but we also looked dangerous on the counter and could have easily scored another.
Also we managed to piss Klopp off - he was whining like a princess scorned during that press conference - so yeah there's that too
This is a total myth; please go check our shots & shots on goal figures for the past few games and compare it to the rest of the top 6. Strikers have always missed one or two chances, you cannot rely on creating that few a game and expect to win.
As for mindset, I wasn't questioning the players' resolve but Ole's commitment to attacking (and his abilities to actually forge an attacking unit).
According to you there isn't. Some of us think differently.
Your stats prove me right. Neither of these seasons at this stage we were in bottom half of the table and neither of them were close to relegation zone and 2 points away from it.
Now bring me whenever I talked about top 4 since I replayed to the other poster or this discussion even started and you may have a point.
But so far you have been replaying without even reading so this discussion is totally pointless and I'm really not interested in going any further.
If you believe he's not doing worse than the other 3 then Ok, it's your opinion even if everything else proves otherwise, position in the league table and points, because literally we have our worst start in a league campaign for 33 years :
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...vs-liverpool-worst-start-record-a9163956.html
The standard Mourinho set was to whine and moan to everyone when things didn't go exactly the way he wanted.
I thought the tactics to start the game yesterday were spot on and won't moan about defensive tactics, but the run overall has been nothing short of diabolical.
This, at the moment he is just firefighting. It’s clear we wanted another striker regardless what the muppets believe from what he says in public like no manager has ever said he’s happy with the squad before when he isn’t. I’m no Pogba fan for many reasons but you can’t have the worlds most expensive midfielder on the sidelines for so long and not be effected by it.
Liverpool had Salah out yesterday and looked ordinary without him.
Again you're getting upset.
When you're having a discussion with someone, as you are with me about relegation, bottom half etc. and I then explain that despite being closer to relegation we're pretty much as close to the top four as we usually are, You can't then just disregard that because it isn't the main focus of your point.
Again, I have read your 'point' and you are right, but I'm just trying to add context to the league table and show you that perhaps it isn't just as simple as going bottom half = Ole worst.
It's not that you're not interested in discussing further, as I pointed out earlier you're incapable of it, given you narrow down to one 'point' and refuse to look at the stats given to you beyond your own perspective.
The discussion is only pointless if you make it pointless.
Even with all that sorted we’ll still be 10th. So wait to judge him if you want. He’s not taking us nowhere fast.
Credit to him for outwitting Klopp in the first half but honestly his in game management was poor, again. Really negative after the break, and once Liverpool started to get a hold of the game didn't have an asnwer. Not the worst result but for me the writing is on the wall so it doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.
I look forward to 0 shots on target in Europa this week.
I look forward to 0 shots on target in Europa this week.
As close to top 4 as we ‘normally’ are he says. When after 9 games have we be so ‘close’ to top 4 then? How many season from the last 6 has this been true?
Literally last season.
The discussion is pointless because you want to shift the entire discussion to a point I didn't even made from the start then went on and told me I'm the one who actually shifted the "goalposts", because all the other things we're actually far worse than any other previous season, position of the table, points gained, win percentage..etc, while I never talked about top 4 from the start.
Anyway we both already said have a good day. I don't why you want to continue. As I said if you believe he's not doing much worse than the previous 3 managers because we're 2 points only farther from top 4 and want to ignore everything else then Ok. Really no one forced you to believe otherwise as far as I'm concerned ?
My point exactly. A man said use to. It happened flipping once!!!
We're seven points behind Chelsea, who are currently holding 4th spot, with 30 odd games to go.
It's hardly an insurmountable challenge.
care to give them to us please?
name me 3 good reasons why Ole is the man to manager the biggest club in world football?
Yeah you're right, you're not capable of understanding how our position relative to the top four is related to our position relative to relegation.
It's easier for you to just say you never brought up the top four.
As we said, have a good day.
You didn't have a point, you asked a poorly written question.
It is when you’ve only won 2 games all season and score 1 a game. But somehow everyone just assumes things will change. It’s that long term vision theory I suppose. Repeat the same things but expect change.
Same for you.
Which you still didn’t answer. How many variations of tell me in the last 6 seasons how many times we have been this far off the top 4 after 9 games. To make this be a normal positions for us to be in?
Hope rather than expect. The last six years has taught me to maintain my expectations to a bare minimum - at least while the Glazers and Woodward remain at the helm anyway.
A top four finish is not out of the question by any means if we could only keep our best eleven fit for the majority of the season. Crazy suggestion, I know.
Martial and Wan Bissaka back, Pogba on the way. He's going to have a full strength squad soon and January is a short while away to get some reinforcements. If he is going to save his job, now is the time to get a win streak together.
The last manager that was this close to the relegation zone was Fergie, when he was rebuilding the team 3 decades ago. He was very close to getting the premature boot as well.
We really do have the worst "fans/supporters" in the world. In stead of giving our support, we just love using the stick on our own. Yesterday you could see the players on the pitch playing with their heart outside their shirts and giving a great performance against the current best in form team in the world. Still Ole and the players get shit from the half the cafè. In stead of shitting on our players and manager, calling them sheit, clueless, out of their dept etc., why not try to be constructive in your critique. If you tell a person he is shit enough times he will turn to shit eventually….I'm not asking you to love a bad performance, but to stop being complete a'holes hidden behind your aliases in online forums. If you talk like some of you write in here in real life you probably don't have a lot of friends….just saying.
Well that isn't really what you asked.
Ignoring the sarcastic comment (in which you actually misquote me) you asked when after 9 games have we been this close, and as as I said, last season.
If you want to read about the other seasons, I included them in a discussion not long ago in this thread.
To summarise though being out of the top four by a minimum of 5 points (seven this season) isn't uncommon for us as far as post Fergie managers go.
I did explain that this point is inherently flawed given that we have different squads and of course have played different fixtures, but I thought it was an interesting and valid point to make.
As I said, we are in the bottom half and closer to relegation than under previous managers, but I do think adding more context than that is pertinent to discussion.
I keep reading this, and I couldn't disagree more. We were up against the best club team in the world the last year (unless some team from MLS or Asia somehow is better - I don't really follow other football than PL and some from Europe). We're not even a top 20 team in Europe at the moment. And we have a 1-0 lead. Every bone in my body tells me to sit back and wait for the counter opportunity. And that's what we did.
2nd half, Klopp changed things around, sent Henderson out wide to make more room for Firmino as number 10. He also sent Mané further up, so Robinson could come more forward and make crosses. AWB had Mané in his pocket in the first half. In the 2nd half, AWB got stuck in a no-mans-land a few times. This didn't matter much, as Mané was in Lindelöfs pocket in 2nd half. Robinson and Trent-Alexander went more forward in the 2nd half, without having much impact on the game, until Rojo dropped his head in the box on Robinson's cross. Until that cross, Liverpool didn't create anything. They had no plan. Liverpool looked as helpless as we did against Fulham under Moyes.
I don't expect us to outplay Liverpool or City this season. But I do expect us to go in every duel to win. Every game. Against Newcastle we had the worst performance I've seen from us in 20 years. Against Liverpool, we probably had our best performance under Ole, if we look at the number of sprints, number of duels won, number of chances created against us. Hopefully, we can build on this.
I'm not saying Mourinho's methods were right and he made his situation untenable. But the reason he did it was because he was not given what he needed to be the winner. He knew the limitations of this squad and wanted to address that and would not settle for anything less and that bodes well for the club. His methods were wrong but intentions were right. Wherever he managed, he had won and that is what drives him and we need a manager with a similar drive. Ole is just happy to comply with what Woodward and Glazers want and talk things fans want to hear.
Again, I'm not supporting Mourinho or using hindsight to say Mourinho was better. He should not have been hired in the first place if we were not willing to back him completely, if you hire him then you back him and he wins you stuff, that's the deal with Mourinho.
The tactics worked out well but lets not kid ourselves its hardly tactical genius. The subs were poor, he had no answer to Klop changing shape and when he did change it was the wrong move at the wrong time.
You can only judge by what has happened so far and excuses aside he has been atrocious, diabolical or just plain sht.
Add a few excuses, injures etc and a whole ton if hope and partial blindness and lets see if he somehow manages to get us playing and getting results.
Its squeaky bum time.....again
You can only judge by what has happened so far and excuses aside he has been atrocious, diabolical or just plain sht.
Add a few excuses, injures etc and a whole ton if hope and partial blindness and lets see if he somehow manages to get us playing and getting results.
Its squeaky bum time.....again
The one thing i took from yesterday's performance is that, despite several rumours that were doing the rounds, his connection with his players isn't damaged beyond repair yet. This is not good news, this is actually great news. After so many mistakes having been made in the summer and with a depleted squad due to our enormous injury list, the one thing that can keep our season from completely falling apart is the manager's ability to still make the footballers keep their faith in him. Even if the situation doesn't improve drastically on the pitch, we'll at least be able to reach next May without any monumental feck-ups, reassess the whole procedure and, quite possibly, have more and better options available to us.
As for yesterday's game, it was a good and hard-earned point and if one team deserved to win all three points, that team would be us. The performance was unexpected because, given our current state and Liverpool's form, the vast majority were expecting a mauling. And Solskjaer deserves credit for not letting the whole situation get out of hand. Was it a tactical masterpiece? Nope. It was actually an approach that Solskjaer has already proved to have in his locker. We have seen the same plan with a different formation against Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal last season. The formation changed but the logic behind it remained the same: Take advantage of the opposition's dependence on FBs/WBs to apply width by utilizing two players up front who will start centrally and then look to use their pace in order to exploit the spaces out-wide while the #10 is searching for pockets of space in the box. It is a plan that has paid dividends before and it will become even more effective when we find out how to cope with managers who can change the dynamics of the game by adjusting their tactics (like Klopp did yesterday or like Poch last season when De Gea saved the three points for us).
Last season, the problems started to arise when we weren't afforded the aforementioned spaces and we had to create them for ourselves. It is a problem that has been carried on into this season too. Our results against teams that actually want to attack us, thus providing us with space to exploit, are quite decent (although we have faced all these teams at OT up to this point). It's the teams that treat us like we're the favourites we're having trouble to break down. This is the plan we so desperately need since Ferguson's retirement and the lack of such a plan has led to the sacking of the previous three managers. Will Solskjaer be able to provide it? I doubt yesterday's game is an indicator but he certainly bought himself some more time with the spirited performance of the team. The next fixtures, both in England and in Europe, are against sides that, as they say, a club of our size and ambitions "is expected to win". Let's see what will happen. Hic Rhodus, hic salta.
As for yesterday's game, it was a good and hard-earned point and if one team deserved to win all three points, that team would be us. The performance was unexpected because, given our current state and Liverpool's form, the vast majority were expecting a mauling. And Solskjaer deserves credit for not letting the whole situation get out of hand. Was it a tactical masterpiece? Nope. It was actually an approach that Solskjaer has already proved to have in his locker. We have seen the same plan with a different formation against Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal last season. The formation changed but the logic behind it remained the same: Take advantage of the opposition's dependence on FBs/WBs to apply width by utilizing two players up front who will start centrally and then look to use their pace in order to exploit the spaces out-wide while the #10 is searching for pockets of space in the box. It is a plan that has paid dividends before and it will become even more effective when we find out how to cope with managers who can change the dynamics of the game by adjusting their tactics (like Klopp did yesterday or like Poch last season when De Gea saved the three points for us).
Last season, the problems started to arise when we weren't afforded the aforementioned spaces and we had to create them for ourselves. It is a problem that has been carried on into this season too. Our results against teams that actually want to attack us, thus providing us with space to exploit, are quite decent (although we have faced all these teams at OT up to this point). It's the teams that treat us like we're the favourites we're having trouble to break down. This is the plan we so desperately need since Ferguson's retirement and the lack of such a plan has led to the sacking of the previous three managers. Will Solskjaer be able to provide it? I doubt yesterday's game is an indicator but he certainly bought himself some more time with the spirited performance of the team. The next fixtures, both in England and in Europe, are against sides that, as they say, a club of our size and ambitions "is expected to win". Let's see what will happen. Hic Rhodus, hic salta.
You can't just focus on shots at goals - that's just how often you actually shoot at the net it says nothing about the quality of those chances nor does it tell you how often space opens up without anyone exploiting it or how often players are positioned to score without anyone shipping them the ball. I believe your model of analyzing the attacking buildup was obsolete already in the seventies - maybe even prior to that. Our expected goals average is seventh in the league and there's practically nothing separating us from fourth (1,2 to be exact). Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea however are in a class of their own - but yeah the opportunities are there our play frequently opens up the opposition our players are just blind to them and you could see that several times yesterday too despite us having a good day. Choosing the wrong pass - to dribble rather than passing it along to someone making a run - or taking low-percentage shots too. Their play is egocentric and immature - plain and simple - that's got nothing to do with our tactics it's individual mistakes.
Again, you are saying it like its a sure thing.
Klopp brought on players that could do something with the ball, as he has those options. Jones is even worse in possession than Fred....also if Jones had come on and they had still scored you and the rest will be saying why is he bringing on a defender? He's just inviting Liverpool on....
There's nothing he could have done to convince you with what's available, you want him gone no matter what.
Liverpool were always going to press hard for a goal as the game approached its end, it was just if we managed to concentration long enough to keep them out.
I can't understand why anyone would think it's a good idea to get rid of Ollie at the moment. Got to give at least two more years IMO. Let him get rid of the parasites pretending to wear the shirts and do the re building job. Once the club is on an even keel, then decide if he is the man to take us forward.
From my experience individual mistakes comes from lack of confidence. The player knows the right pass or move but instead second guesses their instinct. Could come from the player not feeling physically fit or they aren’t mentally fit. It’s the managers job to get them confident enough in his philosophy and approach- this gives the room to breathe and then excel.
When Ole first came on they were all clearly confident in either the next manager they thought they would get or what he was giving them. He has the capability to do it again I think.
His last three signings were very good ones and he knows how to attack attack attack. It’s what he spoke about when he first came- getting the lads confident enough to burst forward when necessary. I think Erikson would be a master of a signing to unlock and create for our attackers.
Yes because Ole and his players read the Caf right?
Blaming the fans for anything related to the club is honestly very weird and kinda funny.
Yup. Immature and a lack of cool heads - but let's face it Rashford, Pereira and McTominay are all young so I think they'll grow into their hype. James usually handles himself well there's been several instances of his runs and passes going to waste due to the others not keeping up - and Martial too has some of what these former three lack but he on the other hand seems to be short on work rate and drive. Don't get me wrong - they're all brilliant prospects - great rotation options and I rate them highly - but we do need someone more seasoned and reliable if we are to compete in the top of this league. Oh and Fred is a hazard - he had a decent game yesterday but even then he made some big blunders and some really weird decisions. Better than his usual self though - so maybe he's stepping up? Hope so - we'll see
Even the top tier managers don't get free 2 years out of nowhere to do what they want. He has to earn them. Period.
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