I dunno, we need to get rid of Woodward and the Glazers, and firing Solskjaer won't fix things but at the same time that doesn't mean Ole is the right man for the job.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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What are you talking about? We would have beaten them if we didn't do an error in the 85th minute. Ole hit with his tactics 100 %. After halftime, Klopp sent Henderson out wide pulling Firminio further back and Ole responded with letting McT look after Firmino. We hardly saw Firminio on the field today, and his usually a main man in Liverpool's build-up play. I was almost certain we'd lose this game, but in the end, Liverpool should be happier than us with their point.
As for the substitution, Rashford was pumped - he hardly even ran the last 10 mins before he got subbed. I don't believe Martial or Greenwood would matter, we didn't see the ball anyway, and I believe Martial is a better lone striker than Greenwood also. McT, and Fred were still firing. Pereira started off bad in the 1st half, but his defensive contribution today was really good. Overall a good performance of our boys. We're not the best team in the league, and we don't have the best squad. Liverpool hasn't lost in the league since their defeat against City in January, and today Liverpool didn't look much better than we did against Fulham under Moyes. They hardly created anything.
Another way to look at it would be If ref hadn’t made a mistake we wouldn’t have even got a point. The tactics to start the game were good, pretty simple but they worked. Second half he got it wrong and was too cautious, neither team really created anything and was a match lacking in quality.
Ole’s whole philosophy revolves around counter attacking and today was one of few games where it’s actually the right tactic.
So was klopp. Which is good news because they didn't do much with their 70% possession until our CBs shit the bed.
That was Klopp having no clue about game management.So does Ole get credit for us scoring then ?
He absolutely has to go he’s simply not a top level manager. The top reds on here need to stop deluding themselves with these romantic notions of Ole turning this around and being a success here.
Yes and more of a reason not to do it then.
And who you see as the perfect replacement? That's the biggest problem and the main reason why I won't join a premature sack-train just yet. The transfers we made this summer were good but unfortunately too few. We need performances like we had today to give me hope.
And we all know Rojo is on his way out - dropping his man on a cross like that is a Sunday League error. We can't have a squad of half-decent players making errors so we concede goals every game. Aside from the goal, Liverpool didn't create much. I disregard that moment where Lindelöf lost his head and got lucky with VAR.
Or have you considered it might be the manager who can't get a tune out of decent enough players? Most of the players he plays regularly haven't even been previous managers' buys, likes of Rashford, Lingard, Parreira, McTominay, Young, de Gea are either academy players or from Fergie's time. Plus his 3 buys, that's 9 players, so he only uses 2-3 players from previous regimes and they have been our better players in Pogba and Martial. Its just more excuses for Ole. How long should we wait before Ole's buys become shit?
None of them had us in bottom half of the table with these same players.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....esults-standings-gameweek-9-a3968141.html?amp
This time last season we were tenth, four points better than this season.
Not bottom half, but not much better either.
Plus given we made a lot of changes to the squad in the summer (namely experienced players leaving) no manager besides Solsjkaer has managed this exact United side.
It's not a perfect comparison given the differences in fixtures and playing squad, but still worth considering.
So my point still exist? We are doing worse than a season when we had a manager in meltdown with the board. We are currently 2 points above relegation zone. We didn't reach such stage before under any of the previous managers with the same players, so blaming them for our current state is kinda weird.
Oh look we've got a comedian, our confidence is on the floor, we're playing the European champions who have won every League game this season and going by this forum 90% of our fans are hoping once Liverpool had got 4 or 5 goals up they'd take pity on us, what the feck were you expecting us to do? Go gung ho looking for a second goal, leaving gaps when they're currently are as good as anybody in Europe at taking advantage of those gaps. Feck me sideways.
The concept of context is alien to many a creature roaming these forums - so be warned before bellowing such constructs! Nuances too - many are blind to - and paradoxes confuse them so they might cause their noses to bleed.
Wait is that a post tactic about tactics that actually provides some specifics? It's unusual to see that on here.
Good post.
Ole outmaneuvered Klopp and got us a great point (could have been a win with some luck and concentration) against reigning champions of Europe and the team that has won every.single.league.game this season. And he did it with major players missing, by completely adapting the tactics for the particular opponent and the squad we had. Clearly he is far from the clueless, inexperienced newb that some blame him to be.
Give the man some credit for feck's sake, seriously.
Give the man some credit for feck's sake, seriously.
Our performance vs Liverpool is quite positive and encouraging though. Fact is we have a lot of injuries problems in the early season, so its hard to give a fair judgment, and perhaps not fair to sack him right away. Maybe at least wait until this coming Christmas to see where we are to decide.
This is just you guessing, you are saying it like its a sure thing, you are just as clueless of the outcome.
The midfielders on the bench were Garner & Mata, are you saying they would have repelled Liverpool from scoring the goal they scored?
As usual, nuance is lost on you. Nobody said we should go gung-ho in second half. We stopped doing the good things we did in the first half: pressing as a team, winning the ball higher up the pitch to put them under pressure, passing to AWB who was always available on the right. Instead we retreated completely, allowing them to start crossing from which the goal came.
A couple of fun facts:
We have not scored more than one goal in any game after the opening weekend.
We have less than 10 shots on target in total in the last 5 games.
Unbelievable that folks can't see the limited play and tactics this coach and consequently this team are capable of. One game raising defensive performance changes nothing.
I have said during the match that Fred was finished and couldn't run anymore and he should come off for Jones. Yes Jones. The main reason why we got pushed back was there was nothing more to give.
Klopp managed to get fresh legs on and a sub scored. The reason why the cross came in was because there was so much space for them to put in the cross.
Yes we got a good goal and we were lucky on the VAR yet we didn't play well during the whole match.
Now if he had made the subs in midfield I will still say we would have won.
This is a false Dawn like the PSG match. I still want him gone.
Good post Sir.
Some are asking for a 90' pressing, the players are still human ffs
Some even want Jones in for Fred oh my God it seems they didn't watch his last matches
By the last 15 minutes our midfield and almost our team basically run out of gas without any possible sub while Liverpool could bring in a whole new midfield. You can blame that on Ole or Ed or both but that's all.
Don't bother. Nothing Ole does can be wrong for some. People think that just because some are not happy with the way we retreated in the second half means we were expecting the team to go all-out. A simple continuity of the first half game plan and ability to pass with people moving forward would have been appreciated as a sign of some sort of progress. Some will allow our levels to go well below any sort of acceptable level before opening their eyes to the fact that Ole is completely out of his depth here as a manager.
Ain't that the truth.
Nothing we can do. This is going to go on for a few more weeks. Who knows at what point but at some point before the end of the year Ole will be fired. Probably waiting for Poch to be available.
This is as inevitable as Mourinhos was.
My only hope here is it is soon enough to salvage the season (top 4 or EL)
Precisely. The first half had actually made me hopeful that Ole might be trying to implement a higher energy style - the style he had in the first few months as interim - but we reverted to our lazy no-runs no-support default in the second hoping to hold out for a 1-0. We are not going to win many games with this approach. How many games is it now that we have taken the lead and not gone on to win? Wolves, Southampton, Arsenal, now Liverpool.
Good post Sir.
Some are asking for a 90' pressing, the players are still human ffs
Some even want Jones in for Fred oh my God it seems they didn't watch his last matches
By the last 15 minutes our midfield and almost our team basically run out of gas without any possible sub while Liverpool could bring in a whole new midfield. You can blame that on Ole or Ed or both but that's all.
This is a strawman argument. We retreated from the 46th minute onwards. How do you explain that?
Paradoxes should confuse everyone. That is sort of the literal definition of the word.
Knowing Ed, he will wait till the moment when all reasonable opportunity is lost. We won't get top 4, we will not be able to land targets such as Sancho, the cycle of mediocrity will continue.
Nope:
Unless you're a class above your opponent, you'll expect them to step up in the 2nd half trying to equalise. Then you sit back and counter.
OLE IN!
Clearly, meamth's comment has become gospel for you lot
. It doesn't prove anything.Perhaps the truth is a bit grey? Good teams will certainly push you back, but it is also true that we came out in the second half with a totally different mentality to only defend? AWB no longer made his supporting runs; Ole even introduced Williams as a second right-back late into the half and specifically asked the team to be more compact which allowed the cross for the goal. He's an uber-defensive manager; it would be clear to everyone if he wasn't a United legend.
Clearly, meamth's comment has become gospel for you lot
Perhaps the truth is a bit grey? Good teams will certainly push you back, but it is also true that we came out in the second half with a totally different mentality to only defend? AWB no longer made his supporting runs; Ole even introduced Williams as a second right-back late into the half and specifically asked the team to be more compact which allowed the cross for the goal. He's an uber-defensive manager; it would be clear to everyone if he wasn't a United legend.
Actually United kept pushing for a second goal up until the sixtieth minute and even after that they still tried to get forward but Liverpool really put an extra gear in. It wasn't so much a change in tactic as Liverpool just upping their game as it progressed. Oh and... Williams was thrown in during overtime. They'd already scored at that point. You sure you watched the game? And please stop with this "United legend" bullshit I don't think I've ever heard anyone support him on that basis. Today was a good game from both teams - I know it sucks seeing as how you all want us to fail just so you get to say "I told you so" but that's the truth.
United played good football - Liverpool started a bit slow compared to their usual selves but caught up a third into the second period.
Clearly, meamth's comment has become gospel for you lot
Perhaps the truth is a bit grey? Good teams will certainly push you back, but it is also true that we came out in the second half with a totally different mentality to only defend? AWB no longer made his supporting runs; Ole even introduced Williams as a second right-back late into the half and specifically asked the team to be more compact which allowed the cross for the goal. He's an uber-defensive manager; it would be clear to everyone if he wasn't a United legend.
You still don't get it. It's the logic in football. The best tactic against an attacking opponent always is sit back and counter.
If you remember the last match well you'd see we had at least 3 good chances to double the score but somehow could not:
- 2 chances where James got the ball. Rashford ready to make the run with huge space in front. James didn't pass but hold it up or decided to run it himself. Don't know why.
- the chance with Fred.
While we were having those chances Liverpool created basically nothing than random crosses. If we managed to score just one from those chances the match would be settled.
P/s: I run out of quota so see you tomorrow
Cheers
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Possession stats in the first 15 mins of the second half: United 25%, Liverpool 75%. No, we definitely retreated after the break.
And yes, I did watch the game, thanks for the snarky comment. Williams might have come on after the goal, but the point is the mindset this manager brings to our team. If it was only against Liverpool, I would have no reason to complain. However, this is a pattern, against big and small teams, we don't go in for the kill.
No we really didn't "retreat" we still tried to create - we just got pushed back as Liverpool got into their rhythm. And even then they had a hard time breaking us down - it was a lucky mistake gifting them that goal.
Sorry, this is not a great revelation. I am not arguing against counter-attacking. I am arguing against a complete withdrawal into our own half by holidng our wing-backs and isolating our forwards completely. There's a line between trying to counter and trying to do a Jose.
But the caf said we surrendered the 2nd half. Clueless feckers.
We tried to create in the only way we know how under Ole - pass the ball into the channels for Rashford and James. However, in the first half we had Perreira, McTominay and Fred pressing them creating opportunities for play closer to their box. This was shut down quite deliberately in the second half because the approach had completely changed.
We got much to defensive in the latter parts of the second half true, but we still got several good chances to catch them on the break, but failed to capitalize on them. Everyone knows completely retreating into your own box is hardly ideal but its what happens when legs tire and you defend a lead
First you say "the only way we know how under Ole" and then the very next sentence you admit he tried a different approach during the first half? Make up your mind - is he a one-trick pony or not? Also - do you think today's match was a poor display?
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