I sure hope they don’t. Just saying that we don’t need the haters, and polarized discussions ain’t going anywhere are they? I’m not blaiming the fans for the current form of the team, just trying to make some of the posters here aware that a constructive post might be a better read and not make you look like an a’hole, like some posts in here do....
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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I sure hope they don’t. Just saying that we don’t need the haters, and polarized discussions ain’t going anywhere are they? I’m not blaiming the fans for the current form of the team, just trying to make some of the posters here aware that a constructive post might be a better read and not make you look like an a’hole, like some posts in here do....
Here's some context for you: we've won 2 of 9 games this year and 4 of our last 17 Premier League matches overall (which is nearly a 1/2 season worth of results).
Well now you're just shifting the goalposts, a minute ago it had never happened full stop.
I did the research for you:
Moyes' first season after nine matches: 5 points off top four, 8th place.
Van Gaals first season after nine matches: 3 points off top 4, 8th place.
Mourinhos first season after nine matches: 5 points off top four, 7th place.
It's pretty clear to see that no manager at United has had it all their own way in their first season (although technically Ole is in his first after an interim stint).
The comparisons are a little flawed, because again, the squad is worse than under Moyes, Van Gaal and perhaps even Mourinho.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a team with the options Van Gaal had would fare better than the team we have today.
The squad Ole inherited (as interim manager) is not that worse than the one Mourinho inherited.
Strike force, Midfield and GK are on par and defense (due to Ashley Young being...well...younger) were slightly better under Mourinho.
You're disregarding the fact that Ole had 6 months to judge the squad and chose to gut it by getting rid of Smalling (who's better than Rojo), Sanchez, Lukaku, Fellaini, no replacement for Herrera (last one is probably not on him). Also making questionable decisions like extending Ashley Young (instead of buying a competent backup to Shaw), Mata and Phil Jones' contracts.
There's no way we should be 2pts off relegation zone with not having won an away game in months. The squad Ole inherited + additions this season would have provided enough cover to not be in this position. It's his squad management + woeful coaching in breaking down teams which is why we've won just 2 games this season.
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And we didn't make top 4 due to the disastrous start last season. Were we meant to repeat it this season?
Everyone at the club including Ole were promising us with a much improved season than last in the pre-season.
Doesn't look like we're improving upon 6th place from last season as the squad is inarguably much worse than last season so I don't see what your point is.
I'm still in the sack him boat as one counter attacking display in a derby doesn't really change anything. One good thing I saw yesterday was Ole changed formations to allow players to play in their best positions. Hopefully, he continues doing that but the general trend has been very different.
Key issues I have with Ole as manager:
1. Playing players in the wrong position (Mata / Perriera as RW, Pogba playing deeper in midfield, Tuanzebe as RB against Newcastle when Dalot was subbed)
2. Horrible set pieces (can't see how Ashley Young still takes our corners)
3. Bad in-game management as others have mentioned. He doesn't make changes proactively and most are far too late.
4. Bizarre squad management: Sending Smalling out on loan but giving a 5 year contract to Jones and having Rojo is still at the club. Selling Lukaku without replacement, sending Sanchez on loan after the window has closed, no replacement for Herrera or Fellaini. (I know Woody is to blame for a lot of it as well), extending Mata's contract and relying on Young as first choice backup.
5. Lack of individual coaching. I don't see any visible improvements in players. Rashford and Martial still seem the same as past few seasons, he isn't able to motivate Pogba. Seems like only McTominay has improved.
6. Relying on Youth when they aren't ready. Ferguson had experienced, world class players to support the academy products coming through. Don't think young players can flourish in a setup where they are supposed to be the primary creative outlets.
Key issues I have with Ole as manager:
1. Playing players in the wrong position (Mata / Perriera as RW, Pogba playing deeper in midfield, Tuanzebe as RB against Newcastle when Dalot was subbed)
2. Horrible set pieces (can't see how Ashley Young still takes our corners)
3. Bad in-game management as others have mentioned. He doesn't make changes proactively and most are far too late.
4. Bizarre squad management: Sending Smalling out on loan but giving a 5 year contract to Jones and having Rojo is still at the club. Selling Lukaku without replacement, sending Sanchez on loan after the window has closed, no replacement for Herrera or Fellaini. (I know Woody is to blame for a lot of it as well), extending Mata's contract and relying on Young as first choice backup.
5. Lack of individual coaching. I don't see any visible improvements in players. Rashford and Martial still seem the same as past few seasons, he isn't able to motivate Pogba. Seems like only McTominay has improved.
6. Relying on Youth when they aren't ready. Ferguson had experienced, world class players to support the academy products coming through. Don't think young players can flourish in a setup where they are supposed to be the primary creative outlets.
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Sack and then Keep.
Essentially Keep Ole
- in some other capacity at the club where we can use his ideas (mainly giving more chances to youth), diplomacy skills and especially recruitment/transfers (the trio are good, debatable in player selling but can't doubt most of 'em are deadwood).
As a coach/manager, overall just not convincing. Things may change next fixtures buuut... doubtful.
Essentially Keep Ole
- in some other capacity at the club where we can use his ideas (mainly giving more chances to youth), diplomacy skills and especially recruitment/transfers (the trio are good, debatable in player selling but can't doubt most of 'em are deadwood).
As a coach/manager, overall just not convincing. Things may change next fixtures buuut... doubtful.
1. Due to injuries and lack of signings, we need to have someone playing as RW. I don't see anyone in our squad who's a natural RW.
2. Against Liverpool he took two corners. No chance created. Against Newcastle, he had 6 corners, 3 of them were good and created a chance for us. Against Arsenal he took 8 corners, 4 long, two hit Maguire. Not too bad IMO. You see what you want to see.
3. If this is based on the Liverpool game, I don't agree at all. Solskjaer got on the better side of that tactical battle against Klopp. Based on what we had on the bench and who played, there's not much I'd like to see him do differently.
4. Sending Smalling on loan was weird, but if he knew he'd settle for Lindelöf and Maguire as the first choice, I don't mind having Tuanzebe as the first backup. Lukaku made himself persona non-grata with his tweets and interviews. Sanchez on loan doesn't matter. He's never contributed. I'd be happy if we just cancel his contract. Mata might not have the legs anymore, but as far as I've read, his contribution to the wardrobe is still good. Mata has never been the player in United that he once was for Chelsea, but we can't throw out 10 players at once. As for a replacement for Herrera and Fellaini, I think we all miss that. Even Ole.
5. I don't believe Ole does individual coaching. Players that have improved after Ole took over: Lindelöf, Shaw, Young (!), McT, Pogba, Martial, and Rashford. Mourinho pretty much was in the clinch with the entire squad, except for Matic.
6. What can you do when you got 10 players injured, and your squad is thin? Tuanzebe did good. I think Williams had a decent few minutes against Liverpool. I struggle to see what Chong got to offer.
If you'd said that we haven't improved since Ole took over, I'd agree with you. We haven't. We're worse now that we were at the same time last season. I've not seen us play as bad as we did against Newcastle in PL ever. I don't believe Ole is the best manager in the world, but right now I don't see anyone better for us available. If Poch gets available, must act fast, and throw money on all signings he wants...
Interesting to monitor this poll as the option to change your vote means it swings with each match - moving back towards 'Keep' after Sunday
What about a manager who NEVER managed a team before managing Manchester United?
Sir Matt
or...
What about a manager who only managed East Sterlingshire, St Mirren and Aberdeen?
Sir Alex
Personally, I'd do the same. If i want Tuanzebe to be a big player for us, either Rojo/Smalling/Jones needs to go. What can you do if only Smalling got a decent bid?(even if it's just a loan).
Ranking up Tuanzebe is a brilliant move from Ole.
I would switch Ole role to an ambassador to seek & access the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund to get rid of the Glazers. He's better served there.
To be fair he won an European title with fecking Aberdeen.
But then again, Sir Alex struggled in his early years.
You mean the manager who broke the old firm dominance in Scotland and won a European Cup with Aberdeen?
SAF lost 5-0 and 3-0 to Newcastle in his time so wouldn't say it was the worst PL performance ever!
I see others have already replied to this, but I just have to emphasise what a poor argument it is. Ferguson had proven himself big time both in Scotland and in Europe by the time he went to United.
Sir Matt was almost a 100 years ago, different times.
Both examples happened more than 50 years ago.
Neither of them managed 10 years in Norway with no top club even remotely interested in them.
Great idea. Let's hope Ole is as good as two of the greatest managers ever/of their generation.
The obvious counter argument is let's hope repeatedly sacking managers and replacing them will solve the problem. It's worked well so far...
There is higher probability of that happening compared to coming good twice in 85 years.
Now these kind of comments are always a good laugh.If we're too relaxed about this, we'll become the next Liverpool waiting for 30+ years to get title #21. We're already the new Arsenal fighting for the top 4 trophy every season
Big clubs repeatedly sack managers till they find the right one.
Edit: I am all for giving managers time if they show progress in a technical style of play. Ole hasn't and quite clearly won't.
Always have and always will.
Fred's shot was in second half, mate.
In his favour he bought three good players in the summer and he's tactically very good against the big teams (W4, D4, L2 against top six). Against him is that we are poor at creating chances and hence score too few goals. The attackers are all quick but with little guile (ok Martial can beat a man some times). Furthermore, we've had some shocking performances away in terms of effort (esp Newcastle and Everton), OGS has to take the blame for that.
I don't see the point in replacing him for another quick-fix merchant (eg Allegri). The only realistic candidate is Poch who I'm sure would come if promised a big transfer budget. Once time is up for Ole he'd be worth a go. Personally, I'd keep Ole (unless and until we are threatened by relegation). We need a couple of signings in January though - a 9 and a 10 although we could persist with 3-4-1-2 and get a top class 10 to replace Pereira when we need a bit more sparkle. Top four still doable as the competition not that great - Chelsea, Leicester?
I don't see the point in replacing him for another quick-fix merchant (eg Allegri). The only realistic candidate is Poch who I'm sure would come if promised a big transfer budget. Once time is up for Ole he'd be worth a go. Personally, I'd keep Ole (unless and until we are threatened by relegation). We need a couple of signings in January though - a 9 and a 10 although we could persist with 3-4-1-2 and get a top class 10 to replace Pereira when we need a bit more sparkle. Top four still doable as the competition not that great - Chelsea, Leicester?
Someone is logging after each game to see how many weather vanes we have on this forum? Changing their stance at every breath of wind.
Not the worst result, but the worst performance. We didn't do shit against Newcastle 2 weeks ago. And that first goal in the 5-0 win back in the 90's was a fecken joke!
Rashford should of hit the target with his shot in the second half, people seem to have forgotten that chance. If he's more accurate there its probably 2-0 and the points are secured.
You sound like Ole now. If we score 1 goal more in each game we would win a quadruple. 2nd half was a disgrace, even though some people here are convinced it was a tactical masterclass from Ole. He is a more negative manager than Jose.
We are talking about shots on target.
Rashford needs to be more clinical; however, you can never rely on creating as few opportunities as we do in games and expect to win. Even Aguero misses chances. Our overall attempts on goal over the past 20 or so games has been absolutely shocking for a top 6 side.
Now now I'm sure nobody wants the next manager to be sacked but this is only what every top club in Europe does and have always done. We're the ones trying to reinvent the wheel here
1. I know we lack depth and the board hasn't helped but I much rather see a 3-5-2 like yesterday which complements our players than shoehorn Mata at RW which hasn't worked well since Lvg days.
2. You're cherry picking instances where we could / should have done better. But the fact is we have the worst set piece record in the league and that's not purely down to luck. We are consistently doing things incorrectly. Be it movement in the box or relying on wrong personnel for quality delivery.
3. It's not based on Liverpool game. I agree his first half tactics were fantastic and we were unlucky to concede the way we did. He still should've brought fresh legs on earlier but I'll give him a pass due to the woeful bench strength that game.
4. Promoting Tuanzebe is great but if he wanted to go with 4 CBs (+ injured Bailley), Jones shouldn't have gotten a 5 year contract and Rojo should have been sold over Smalling imo. The fact that no one was willing to buy either of those two makes the decision to give Jones a big contract even worse.
5. I really don't see much improvement in any of the players you mentioned barring Lindelof and Shaw maybe. Martial had shown the same form before Sanchez was signed and Rashford looks the same as when he first broke through imo. Pogba is world class on his day and wildy inconsistent (same as always).
6. He mentioned relying on youth before the window closed so it's not the injuries. He always seemed to want to throw youth in to fill the squad gaps which seems like a bad approach.
I find it hard to believe that there are no better managers than Ole available. I think the likes of Eddie Howe or Rodgers from within PL would do a much better job than Ole for example.
Ok, but he same as Rashford wern't far off. If any had went in it was 3 points.
If, if, if..
I won't tire of repeating this:
1. We have scored more than 1 goal in only 1 game this season (that includes non-PL games).
2. We have not had 10 shots on target in the last 5 games.
If you are going to rely on 100% clinical striking, then you will not do well. We just don't create enough chances.
We all know this and not waiting for you to point it out to us. We are just clutching at straws hoping that one of these shots would go in against Liverpool. Cool down man.
Being a United supporter getting any sort of result on Sunday was an unexpected bonus, especially stopping their consecutive wins record. If the dippers lose the PL title by 2 points I'll dance round the streets naked. Credit must be given to the manager and the players for their performance. Yes we were pushed back in the second half but we musn't forget we were playing the European champions and favorites for the PL.
But Sundays result has opened up a can of worms which needed to be opened. I see a lot of people are a bit more optimistic that Ole has what it takes to be the man and that the players can perform to a higher level after Sundays performance so maybe our squad isn't as bad as what people think. Obviously we can't forget the dross football we've been seeing almost on a consistent basis but now the bar has been set. From now there's no more excuses. We got a result without Martial, Pogba and Shaw so with them playing we should be even better, right? It's logical since a majority of posters think our inept performances have been down to these players being out injured.
I don't think Ole is the man to take us forward but if we kick on from here then I don't have a problem holding my hands up and giving him time in the transfer market but if we go back to inexcusable performances after seeing what the team can do against the CL champions then for me or any sane United supporter there should only be one outcome.
But Sundays result has opened up a can of worms which needed to be opened. I see a lot of people are a bit more optimistic that Ole has what it takes to be the man and that the players can perform to a higher level after Sundays performance so maybe our squad isn't as bad as what people think. Obviously we can't forget the dross football we've been seeing almost on a consistent basis but now the bar has been set. From now there's no more excuses. We got a result without Martial, Pogba and Shaw so with them playing we should be even better, right? It's logical since a majority of posters think our inept performances have been down to these players being out injured.
I don't think Ole is the man to take us forward but if we kick on from here then I don't have a problem holding my hands up and giving him time in the transfer market but if we go back to inexcusable performances after seeing what the team can do against the CL champions then for me or any sane United supporter there should only be one outcome.
40 games vs. 1 games
Which one is the odd one out? We werent all that against the scouse. It's a derby, we're fighting for our lives. They're fighting complacency.
We didnt won. It's a draw.
Stop making it as some kind of maestro performance. Our goal happens because their player camped in our half while we're stacking 2 banks of four.
Did you actually read past the first paragraph?
I didn't have a point with that post, I was just answering a question that I'd been asked.
The swirl around the Liverpool game is really a red herring. Was always likely to end up a really tight contest given so many different factors.
Our next five Prem games are away to Norwich, Bournemouth and Sheffield, and home to Brighton and Villa. Those are the games that will define whether Ole is still in his job at Christmas.
In normal circumstances it should be 15 from 15. But I'll settle for 12 points. Expectation with Ole: 7 points.
Our next five Prem games are away to Norwich, Bournemouth and Sheffield, and home to Brighton and Villa. Those are the games that will define whether Ole is still in his job at Christmas.
In normal circumstances it should be 15 from 15. But I'll settle for 12 points. Expectation with Ole: 7 points.
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