No you don't. You're not open to any discussion. You just want to continue your beratement of one of the most successful managers of all time. I'm quite happy to acknowledge a point well made from someone I disagree with, I do it all the time, stating it was a good discussion or debate. But you just want to moan, to the point where youll even use a bleedin' pre season friendly as a jumping off point. Discussion my arse.With Jose still in charge - I am NOT looking forward to next season
- Thread starter RedStarUnited
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No you don't. You're not open to any discussion. You just want to continue your beratement of one of the most successful managers of all time. I'm quite happy to acknowledge a point well made from someone I disagree with, I do it all the time, stating it was a good discussion or debate. But you just want to moan, to the point where youll even use a bleedin' pre season friendly as a jumping off point. Discussion my arse.He didnt get the most out of the squad last season and by his comments he won't be up to much this one either.
Put him out of his misery. I don't want to watch another year of dour football. Also don't want to risk the chance of our better players leaving if they had to stay under MouronMo.
Put him out of his misery. I don't want to watch another year of dour football. Also don't want to risk the chance of our better players leaving if they had to stay under MouronMo.
agreed, also funny how defensively we se tup only to concede 4 anyway and score from one shot on goal from a freekick. BTW liverpool played a lot of kids too. Its nothing like Jose said before the game making alibi for himself and his team, they had some absolute rookies too but managed to stick to some gameplan whereas we had none
Agreed. You literally have to be a moron to not be able to see this.
Didn't think the man could get more negative but he continued his moaning about the board and just called out Martial for still being away regardless irrespective of the fact that he just welcomed a son just 3 days ago and that the tour ends in 2 days.
I can't remember ever going into a season under such a toxic atmosphere surrounding the club and with such low expectations especially coming off a season where we were runners up.
You also get the ominous feeling that things will only get worse as Mourinho grows more frustrated and decides to go scorched earth once he feels boxed in...
I can't remember ever going into a season under such a toxic atmosphere surrounding the club and with such low expectations especially coming off a season where we were runners up.
You also get the ominous feeling that things will only get worse as Mourinho grows more frustrated and decides to go scorched earth once he feels boxed in...
Yeah, but did they play in the WC like they play for us?
Rashford aside, the others looked much better.... the obvious variable is who was managing them. Can't see why they'll be much different once back under Jose ... different tactics, different mentality, different teammates, different man management.
Lingard and Young were only there because of how they'd played last season under Jose.
So dream scenario? We can't get a big name mid-season. If we implode and Mourinho stinks the place up, give it to McKenna and Carrick until the end of the season. Surely we can't get any worse? Then go for someone more established next Summer.
I wouldn't lose any sleep if Mourinho publicly slagged the fans off, as well as the team, SAF, Sir Bobby and Woody, making it impossible to enter the season with him. Have McKenna give it a shot, with Carrick and Neville as assistants.
I wouldn't lose any sleep if Mourinho publicly slagged the fans off, as well as the team, SAF, Sir Bobby and Woody, making it impossible to enter the season with him. Have McKenna give it a shot, with Carrick and Neville as assistants.
Possibly but both clearly better in the WC than for us.
I was wondering why I apparently couldn't see what everyone was reacting to on the previous page. @ivaldo should be on everyone's ignore list. Fecking horrible poster.
What idea can be built over night with a defensive line and most part of midfield consisted of players who unlikely to start when other players coming back?
Would you spend all training sessions to train Grant to improve his distribution? Training the back line of Darmian, TFM, Bailly, Tuanzebe Mitchell, when it's hinted Darmian can leave tomorrow if an offer being accepted; Lindelof get ready and used as RB or Young decides to cut short his holiday. Matic is very bit likely to get back into the team when he's fit. Fred may make it into the team too. So if it's midfield 2, today midfield may as well not feature.
When LVG team beat Madrid in pre season, it can be said the same about that Madrid team about lack ideas and inventions. They didn't try to get the best out of the players on the pitch? Why? They didn't need to.
This is the crux of it. Mourinho's ability (or lack of) to coach this team has been dreadful from three or four months into his reign.
It's why markedly inferior players elsewhere look better than our own expensive acquisitions. The same idiots bang their heads against the wall claiming we need better players.
Leo Messi would sign for us and fail under Mourinho. We're that poor going forward. And that's not an exaggeration. He'd genuinely struggle as we pump it long to him.
If an idea can't be built over night, do we have time to do it now? Most of our first team players as you said are not even here. So why bother in the first place? And, hoofing the ball up front regardless of who we play up top or formations seems normal for us. It hardly worked in last 2 seasons and it would not work magically this season.
Even if Madrid looked lack ideas and inventions back then, people knew they would come around during the season. Can the same be said about our team and the manager who showed that often in last season?
So people are right to be concerned with seeing the same shit like last season at times this time around again.
Core idea was delivered since Mourinho take over. First team players return, and it's time to resume and improve upon.
We hear about these concern quite often, nothing new. The talking point is pretty much reaction to the latest games. Not so much new concern that need to be voiced.
What is the core idea here btw?
Looking clueless in attacking areas most of the time in the last 2 seasons can tell you that the players probably don't get it either. And, now we are playing a totally different formation while our first team players are not even here to get used to it... Or is Jose trying to throw people off by pretending that he will be playing this shit formation? I don't think he will fool many with his team being out of ideas though regardless of whatever formation he plays with.
So the other time they don't look clueless, perhaps it's the aim?
You think we're using this formation all season? Or it's the way to fit in more player with the lack of senior forwards options on the squad tour.
The core idea being that Jose will do whatever it takes to build a team that is best for Jose to manage; not necessarily the best for United.
We are completely without a fundamental method or style - we have bought predominantly ex players in ibrahinpvic, Matic, Lukaku and most likely now willian - all playing the same exact formation that is written on the back of José's hand - not showing any flexibility to adapt to the players at his disposal to try create something unique here at the EPL when all the rest of the teams are exactly that - they have a personality. Whilst he tries to convince our team' s primary personality is to purely have hard work & nothing else.
We continue to play a single target man when we had 2 of the hottest property strikers at the start of his arrival & now they are failing wingers not because they are rubbish but because Jose himself says HE does not view them as strikers in his team.
As @El Jefe said today - we go play with others players who are not target men as purely target men. This happens with Rashford who is a direct striker and martial who is a support striker who tends to play on the left or possibly deep enough to cover as a false 9 - yet they all attempt to jump lilke ibrahinpvic & Drogba whilst all the team try to supply.
Very poor management. Hell even if he is trying to play a 352 which he hopefully is - the last thing he should have done then is sell Blind & consider selling martial.
No-No, it's going to be his 4231 with another target man but this time we will have willian playing & having the same benefits & problems as he always carries on after scraping a win where he simply has no answer required when asked to change his 'methods' he bought along from day one.
But the times that looked clueless outnumbered no? If the core idea was delivered and well received, that should not be the case, should it?
Do I think we are using this formation all season? I hope not coz it would be a bit ridiculous.
And, if we don't have any senior forwards, you know you can always play youths since we should not take the results seriously right? At least players would not be confused with new information for new formation and as you said senior players will get back in the slot with no problem.
It is either wasting everyone's time or the new formation looks shit and it won't have much time or the players to be ready.
Its going to be a catch 22 situation for most of the fans this season.
I desperately want United to win. And yes, I would take a league win playing shit house football. But, his tactics aren’t even particularly effective. Mediocre results and some of the worst football I’ve seen from our club in my lifetime.
The best word to describe Jose Mourinho is joyless. The man, the moment, the football, the club. His negativity has infused everything about this club. He talks shit about the hierarchy, shit about his own players, and shit about the fans. He looks at everyone but himself. He’s shown no capacity to grow and change, and it’s his inflexibility and arrogance that will ultimately be his undoing.
This is not the way football should be, and not the way a club of our magnitude should be run. I rue the day that I supported his appointment. I was sorely, and deeply mistaken.
The best word to describe Jose Mourinho is joyless. The man, the moment, the football, the club. His negativity has infused everything about this club. He talks shit about the hierarchy, shit about his own players, and shit about the fans. He looks at everyone but himself. He’s shown no capacity to grow and change, and it’s his inflexibility and arrogance that will ultimately be his undoing.
This is not the way football should be, and not the way a club of our magnitude should be run. I rue the day that I supported his appointment. I was sorely, and deeply mistaken.
You think being clueless majority of the time and the team can get to some where past 2 seasons? We must be the luckiest team on earth
Why you ask the question of formation back at me?
Lack options =|= no forwards. We try to improve our first team player fitness. Yet there is not options to enable change to approach fitting these players. For example Alexis to move primary wide, who would be focus point in center now Martial left the squad?
I won't say I disagree, but we don't need to talk about changing core ideas of Mourinho. Thread title and OP is sufficient enough. If anyone don't look forward to new season, feel free to boycott and make the board hear your voice abou the big picture. I am not in your way.
My initial point was about that post where it borrows the big picture theme, but full of reactions to base it on.
The season ahead is looking bleak indeed, a continuation of the second half of last season.
United bought Sanchez which seemed like a good deal at the time, but Mourinho didn't seem like he knew what to do with him and Sanchez ended up not being an improvement on the left wing.
United also have many players that have past it or just deemed not good enough, and yet they keep extending their contracts when they can find free up the squad, e.g. Rojo, Fellaini. There is now like 5 CBs at the first team all at around the same mediocre level and United are looking to sign another CB instead of solving more problematic positions like LB and RW.
Pre-Seasons have been shit. Granted it's mostly reserve squad, but the football being played is still the same brand of insipid football.
Edit: to clarify, United did well to get 2nd, but the football being played was overall uninspiring with a couple of great results.
United bought Sanchez which seemed like a good deal at the time, but Mourinho didn't seem like he knew what to do with him and Sanchez ended up not being an improvement on the left wing.
United also have many players that have past it or just deemed not good enough, and yet they keep extending their contracts when they can find free up the squad, e.g. Rojo, Fellaini. There is now like 5 CBs at the first team all at around the same mediocre level and United are looking to sign another CB instead of solving more problematic positions like LB and RW.
Pre-Seasons have been shit. Granted it's mostly reserve squad, but the football being played is still the same brand of insipid football.
Edit: to clarify, United did well to get 2nd, but the football being played was overall uninspiring with a couple of great results.
This is the a fantastic summary of how I feel too, far more eloquent than I could manage. Can't wait for a change, but knowing our board, they'll wait til their own accountability is clearly not in question. (when can't make fourth)
Never been less excited for a season. Guy just sucks all joy out of football. Can't wait til he's gone and we can get back on track as a football club.
#JoseOut
Wanker!
Wanker!
I think a lot of us aren't a fan of his, but were hoping he'd still get results.
That seems to be out the window unfortunately. Just have to hope he doesn't fully implode this season.
He no longer defends the club(any of his since his failure at Real). He just defends himself and shifts BLAME ON EVERYONE ELSE but him.
I wouldn't say this is the worst (13-14, 15-16 come to mind) but I don't forsee José keeping his post for long.
It would surprise me if he's still in charge of the squad by the start of the following season.
It would surprise me if he's still in charge of the squad by the start of the following season.
About results, he gets them which is credit to him and all he has ever known for.
I don't have any idea how we will do this season. Hopefully good. But, it is very clear that the team has not bought his ideas/style fully after 2 seasons and it is a concern for long term regardless of some second rated cups he won on first season.
About formation, I asked you because you pretended like you knew what he was trying to do and to point out that it makes no sense. That's all. Not that I thought you knew exactly.
When the big players start getting frustrated with José (Pogba in particular) it'll be the death knell to his tenure as gaffer.
Eeeek, pretty much spot on here, especially the bolded part, the man take's zero responsibilty for his tactics or game plan and honestly believes nothing is his fault and theres always someone or some reason as to why he didn't win, his toxic attitude has truely spread throughout our club and it's getting worse, not better,
The problem we have is a man who runs our club who again I couldn't see take any responblity for his own dreadful actions and decisions, Ed Woodward is a fantastic businessman financially but in no way should be in charge of actual footballing decisions, that being managerial appointments, scouting, transfers etc,
He's so out of his depth but again, he make's so much money I just cant see the Glazers give enough shit to shift him to another position within the club and appoint someone with an actual footballing vision and experience of running a club,
Scary times, it's going to implode very soon and will not be for a great viewing for us fans.
Mou is making his share of mistakes but the problem is bigger then that
Managers come and co and yet we are in the same craphole. Why not admit that this squad suck big time? Project value + transfer mistakes made by LVG and the chosen one saddled us with tripe on expensive salaries whom we cannot get rid off. Not to forget that it seems that the richest club in the world cannot buy players before selling first + it think that a transfer campaign made up of a 34 year old keeper picked from the skip, Brazil's mascot and some kid from Portugal can take us to places. FFS name me a big club were tripe like Anderson or Shaw linger there for 3-8 years
This is the second season that the club let mou down in terms of transfers. If I was him Id resign at the end of the transfer deadline. Let Woody and Giggsie handle it till the end of next season
Managers come and co and yet we are in the same craphole. Why not admit that this squad suck big time? Project value + transfer mistakes made by LVG and the chosen one saddled us with tripe on expensive salaries whom we cannot get rid off. Not to forget that it seems that the richest club in the world cannot buy players before selling first + it think that a transfer campaign made up of a 34 year old keeper picked from the skip, Brazil's mascot and some kid from Portugal can take us to places. FFS name me a big club were tripe like Anderson or Shaw linger there for 3-8 years
This is the second season that the club let mou down in terms of transfers. If I was him Id resign at the end of the transfer deadline. Let Woody and Giggsie handle it till the end of next season
I just hope after he goes we remember the posters who were calling for him to be hired. Remember the ones who were willing to “sell our soul”
We've hired three managers that are known for playing dogshit brands of football. Therein lies the problem. Also, they're all twats.
So why were they hired in the first place. When will the person making these decisions be punished? Wy arnet anyone calling for them to step down?
Erm, he's asked for and received a £30m defender each of the last two seasons, now he wants a third who could cost £60-70m before he's even played the first two together for more than two games. He could've partnered them the entire run-in last season, but for his bizarre excuse that he wasn't playing a fit Eric Bailly because he wasn't going to the World Cup. Beyond that he's got Smalling, Jones, and Rojo -- all of whom he's seemed to select as first choice for extended periods during his time in charge.
He's signed Mkhitaryan for £30m and dumped him in 18 months.
He's signed Pogba for £89m and constantly slates him in the press and has him wanting out (if rumors are to be believed).
He's effectively forced Woodward into a corner trying to sell on the 4th most expensive player the club has ever signed & whose best years are quite obviously still ahead of him in Martial. A sale of this magnitude will not and should not happen quickly and without careful thought and also requires a replacement signing given how short the club are in attacking players.
My overall point is that he's given Woodward and the board cause to question his decision making in the transfer market and also added significant amounts of work that must be done before other signings can be made. He's made the bed and now he doesn't want to lie in it. That said, our new scattergun approach to transfers where we negotiate with multiple players at a time and then pull out of whichever deal seems to be dragging the most (as with Morata/Lukaku this year & seemingly Alderweireld/Maguire this year) is an embarrassment.
This "club letting down poor Mourinho" excuse is so laughable to even debate. I'm sorry you had to waste your time writing your excellent post.
Why don't we all just start supporting Liverpool or City?
Moyes was SAF's chosen one. LVG was the godfather of football the man who tutored the likes of Pep and Mou. Mou's track record in the EPL is undisputed
I am not saying that they didn't committed their share of mistakes but there's a pattern here. The club failed to bring Moyes the top players he needed, LVG ended up signing a horde of sub standard players with the occasional big name (ADM) and we seem to have issues in buying decent talent now. I am now wondering if the value strategy was really a SAF thing after all. I mean who would settle for the likes of Young, Valencia and a knackered Micheal Owen unless he cant really bring anyone better?
RE: formation. My earlier post pointed out we used this formation so we can fit the seniors especially attackers in. There is no real central forward after Martial left the squad. We have plenty of defenders for the tour, kids and first teamers. 3 at the back allows more of them into the starting line up. We're not tactical drilled them. The core idea needed more first team players back, and those were in place since past seasons. It's more about improving, perfecting.