How has he been much better this YEAR (2017)?
Why CR7 Should be Talked About as the GOAT
- Thread starter GM K
- Start date
-
Hello, Guest! We have four new competitions (with taglines and awards as prizes) starting.
A new Odds or Evens competition is starting now. Click here to read the rules and message Damien to submit your eight players by 14th September 2024
A new Carabao Cup prediction competition is starting now. Click here to enter to submit predictions for round 3 which begins 17th September.
A new Champions League prediction competition is starting now. Click here to enter to submit predictions for the first round which begins 17th September.
A new Europa League prediction competition is starting now. Click here to enter to submit predictions for the first round which begins 25th September.
For Odds or Evens you have until the 14th September to submit your players. Submissions will be open for the next 6 days, 6 hours, 29 minutes, 57 seconds, and will close on Sep 14, 2024 at 12:30. -
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) get the depressing job of reviewing United's 3-0 loss at Old Trafford to Liverpool. They discuss what went wrong, Casemiro's day to forget, and the pressure now on Erik Ten Hag. They also take some time to give McTominay a proper farewell, and give their overall thoughts on the Summer Transfer Window.
He even scored the supposed equaliser (as you know) in the last minutes of the final, right after what was going to be Germany's winning goal. It was called offside, and it might have been wrong. Would have been a brace for him and it had sent the game into extra time. Often it's margins that define a legacy.Yeah, if only the Magyars would've won the World Cup in 1954... and they beat the same German team in the group game like 8:3 or something
That - and, of course, the Hungarian revolution of 1956, which completely broke the team and made Puskas to take a 3 year break from competitive football, at the very physical peak, from 28 to 31. And even after that he scored about 250 goals for Real Madrid in roughly the same amount of gamesAt Madrid he took a more restricted role due to Di Stefano's influence (Puskas was smart enough to recognize the move that will bring the best out of both of them, Di Stefano hated to be challenged, see Didi etc.)
@Stacks
Very good post about the Beatles (Elvis, Pistols, Nirvana) & Pele. It's often hard to fully understand greatness retrospectively in any field, but the more one learns about it and its context, the clearer the picture gets eventually. For me, making that possible is one of the greatest upsides of the internet age, with so much shared information.
Last edited:
He famously missed out on starring in England's World Cup winning first eleven. That was a big miss for him.
WHAT.
I agree with that. It's all relative. The best players then would be fitter, stronger etc.
? He was good for one game, the round of 16 against switzerland
I'm baffled as to how people still think Messi is better, no chance.
Ronaldo was poor until his strong finish to the season. At one point he'd played something like 30 games and only had 17 or 18 goals, half a dozen of which were penalties. Ronaldo's season by his own standards hasn't been good.How has he been much better this YEAR (2017)?
The award is for the calendar year, not the season. He's got 26 goals in 27 games so far in 2017. I think Messi has 31 in 32.
You've answered it yourself.
For 2017, Ronaldo has 24 goals in 26 games, Messi has 31 goals in 32 games. Now if you account for the goals that Ronaldo scored in key matches in the CL, one can easily argue Ronaldo has had the better 2017.
Yeah,not as if he beats people, creates and scores as many as RvN is it (oh sorry CR7 i meant)
When was the last time CR7 beat a player, 2008?
When was the last time he created something, from nothing?
Some of you are the absolute definition of fanboi's
He is the most boring GOAT contender. Barely enjoy watching him for the last 6 years.
The way the Messi brigade goes on about it, you'd have thought goal scoring is just some kind of secondary biproduct of football, rather than the be-all-and-end-all aim.
Just right now watching CR7's 10 Best Goals on MUTV.
Difficult to believe that the absolute best player of his generation played for us, and easy to believe that if he had stayed we might have been unbeaten for the past 8 years.
Simply phenomenal !!!!
Difficult to believe that the absolute best player of his generation played for us, and easy to believe that if he had stayed we might have been unbeaten for the past 8 years.
Simply phenomenal !!!!
Please, his game is pretty much all about him getting good service and scoring. He may have been a complete player in his United days, but the larger part of his career is about him being a very clinical and prolific scorer. He certainly doesn't compare in terms of creativity and overall vision with the likes of Maradona, Messi or Cruyff. Silly to say he does imo.
It wasn't me bro. It was my catfish @Stack
Ronaldo's name will be featured in GOAT list more often after 3-4 more years when he still maintains his performance levels or at least goals. Sheer longevity is the only way for him to be featured in that list with a realistic shot to be at the top. Lets face it, he was never as special with his skills like the other GOAT candidates which will always come up.
But the good thing is he has the body, the dedication and the ambition to play till he is 40. If he can avoid long term injuries, there is hardly something to prove he will slow down considering his physical prowess. Not sure we can say that about Messi who I feel will eventually slowdown.
I think by the time CR retires, he will write new rules to physical prowess and fitness. It will only be realized when he is old. 32 is too early for critics to realize how much effort he has put in and how much restraint he has followed.
But the good thing is he has the body, the dedication and the ambition to play till he is 40. If he can avoid long term injuries, there is hardly something to prove he will slow down considering his physical prowess. Not sure we can say that about Messi who I feel will eventually slowdown.
I think by the time CR retires, he will write new rules to physical prowess and fitness. It will only be realized when he is old. 32 is too early for critics to realize how much effort he has put in and how much restraint he has followed.
If that's what you believe nothing I can say will convince you otherwise.
No not at all, the only reason why people think Messi is better is because Ronaldo played for United and arguably we made him the player he is. Don't get me wrong Messi isn't only just behind Ronaldo but is a much better athlete.
¿Que?
CR7 is built like a track athlete; he works hard at his craft whereas "El Fenomeno" was more a gifted football player. What's wrong with that?
I would agree with this. However, for most people, it's not physical prowess and/or fitness which stand at the foundation of what the greatest means. But rather their talent and their ability, as well as the genius factor. Ronaldo doesn't have more ability than the likes of Messi and/or Maradona. No matter what he does this will not change. He can score as often as Messi, he can win the titles Messi wins. But he just can't do what Messi can. Ability to a point can't be trained and comes from talent. Messi/Maradona/Cruyff/Di Stefano/Pele have more talent than Ronaldo, and the gap is very clear for me when watching them.
Messi, Maradona and a select few others can put the ball where they want to. Can pick a target and deliver a perfect pass, taking into consideration multiple factors, like the wind, the spin of the ball, the pitch, the receiver's preferred foot. It's a complete mastery of the football. Ronaldo doesn't control the ball to the fullest potential. He can shoot it fine, he can head it or even do a trick from time to time, but that's about it. The rest is routine. He is not better at controlling the ball than some of his teammates for example, like Kroos, Modric or Marcelo. That can never be said about the likes of Messi, Maradona Cruyff and others.
Ronaldo can be appreciated as an example of professionalism, will to be the best, discipline to succeed at the highest level. Those are attributes that make him not only a great player, but a great sportsman, and an example for many other aspiring kids. But as the best player of all time or one of the very few? He misses some key aspects for me, which I mentioned earlier in the comment.
What are you saying? Sincere question.
The problem here for me is the way you class talent and the 'genius factor'. You say Ronaldo can't do what Messi can, but things are also true the other way around. It's true that all of those players you mentioned have better ball control than Ronaldo but there's more to football than that. And it's not like Ronaldo can't dribble the ball or make great passes either. I'd argue he's a better athlete than those players, a better aerial player, better in counter attacking situations, more lethal in the box, has a better long range shot, is better in set piece situations, etc.. He may not have that aura of a magician, but he has other things that those players didn't. And then it becomes tough to make these comparisons and that's why they're mostly nonsense since it's not as simple as 'Player A scores as much as player B, player A is better on the ball than player B therefore player A is better than player B'. There are too many factors in play, especially when you start looking at teams' achievements and comparing across different generations.
Messi scores about the same number of goals as Ronaldo. As far as I know, Messi still owns the record of goals scored in a season and in a calendar year. Also, as far as I know Messi has more long range goals than Ronaldo. So, two aspects are already not true.
So you have two players who have similar goal scoring stats. But one of them is also this insane playmaker and has incredible vision and dribbling ability. How is this close? Because you name some types of goals Ronaldo can score, that Messi can't? Goes what, Messi can score types of goals that Ronaldo can't score as well, solo goals and such.
I think if you look at the goals they usually score, you can say Ronaldo is better at scoring goals after 1-2 touches, while Messi becomes better at scoring goals when more touches are involved, from deeper positions. Which also underlines that Ronaldo is a role player, i.e. a player who's job is to score goals based on great service, while Messi is much more than that and is involved in more aspects of the game.
The most I can say pro Ronaldo in his duel with Messi is that Ronaldo is a better no9 than Messi. Messi is better player though, quite clearly. He manages to keep up with Ronaldo's number of goals, even supersede them at times, while having better ability on the ball and being an extremely skilled playmaker.
Normally, a player like Messi is a no10. He has no business scoring as many goals as he does. The fact that he still does it is a testament to his unique ability to be multiple things at the same time and to step into different roles during the game. He can do things that a 'no7' does, then one minute after that he can pull off a 'no10' assist, and also appear in the box to score a 'no9' type of goal. He can switch between these roles almost instantly. Ronaldo simply can't.
Messi is a master of passing, scoring, and dribbling. Ronaldo is a master of scoring and is also pretty good with his passing and dribbling. That is the difference.
Last edited:
I never even said the opposite: that Ronaldo scores more than Messi... what the hell are you even talking about? And Ronaldo scores more from long range, Messi scores plenty from outside the box, but they're not really for long range. I was only listing things that I think Ronaldo's better than the players you mentioned (and not just Messi, I have no idea why you mention him) because you made your argument without even mentioning them.
My whole last post was me explaining this. You just completely ignored it. And I wasn't talking about Messi... Messi, Maradona, Cruyff or Pelé might be better at creating than Cristiano, but they're not better than him at it than Cristiano is better than them at other things. And these other things aren't just scoring goals like I explained in my previous post.
If you think Ronaldo's role in a team is merely scoring goals based on great service, then I don't know what to tell you. It's insane.
1) OK, Ronaldo scores more from long range. I don't even know what long range means to you. What? 20m.? 25m.? Over 25? Can't remember Ronaldo scoring a lot of those either.
2) True about Cristiano being better at scoring than those players (except Messi), but you also have to take into account the specifics of today's game, as opposed to the past eras. It's a judgment call here, as the variables (conditions) are vastly different.
3) Ronaldo's role at Madrid is mostly scoring the goals other create for him or speculating favorable situations in the box. Take the first game with Atletico for example from a few weeks. First goal: great cross Carvajal, great header Ronaldo. Second goal: loose ball, a lucky bounce for Ronaldo, volley and goal. 3rd goal, great layout from a teammate, easy finish from Ronaldo. Hattrick, sure, great goals especially the first two. But all the work of a finisher. No shame in that as well. He is a forward. Most of the times he waits for service and his involvement in the build-up is limited. This is not a negative issue except when he is compared with a player who influences the game in more ways, like Messi does.
Yes.
He is the goat.
600 goals
He is the goat.
600 goals
He's the greatest ever. No question.
Sometimes you just have to put the goat debate aside and just concede that we've been extremely fortunate to see these two players play.
This! We are lucky.
Still think Messi is better, but himself and Ronaldo are miles ahead of anyone else.
I have him at #3 behind Messi and Maradona.
Exceptional talent and big game player.
Exceptional talent and big game player.
Most naturally talented and complete footballer is Messi by a reasonable distance. I think Ronaldo has taken the title of "Greatest" away from him though through sheer determination. He's going to win more Ballon D'Ors, equal his champions league and win an international title, despite Messi having better teams around him. He's just phenomenal.
There's no way Ronaldo is the greatest anything, except Narcissist.
If there is one man you want to win you a match it's Ronaldo, and thats whats football is about, winning, not pretty dribbles and good touches, ball in the net winning and nobody has or does it better then Ronaldo.
I think us football fans are quite fickle. If Messi wins the World Cup next year, he will probably be hailed as the greatest ever even if he doesn't have an amazing tournament.
This. That lot seem to think dribbling is more important than scoring.
Been mentioned a lot, but his greatest achievement isn't the titles he's won. Nor the goals and records.
It's catching up to Messi in Ballon d'Ors won when it was a 4-1 advantage after 2012 and it looked like Messi would stretch the cushion.
It's highly probable that it'll be 5-5 now after 2017. Nothing symbolizes him more than that fact.
It's catching up to Messi in Ballon d'Ors won when it was a 4-1 advantage after 2012 and it looked like Messi would stretch the cushion.
It's highly probable that it'll be 5-5 now after 2017. Nothing symbolizes him more than that fact.
This. That lot seem to think dribbling is more important than scoring.
The reality is (even if you just compare goals), Messi is only 30 career goals behind Ronaldo and he has the extra pretty little dribbles and genius moments.