Currently, it's more like
World class strikers
Average/Out of form wingers
Always injured defence
Midfield? What's midfield?
Which midfielder should Moyes buy ?
- Thread starter Raoul
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Currently, it's more like
World class strikers
Average/Out of form wingers
Always injured defence
Midfield? What's midfield?
This remains fans conjecture. I dont think SAF see's it that way at all, he certainly never said so ... his purchases of the past 5 years have directly led to the most successful period in our history.
He had to operate within a budget, and made decisions on what could be afforded. I doubt had we had the muppet midfielder REDCAFE has screamed for the past few years, we'd have won another CL; and we won 1 CL, Barcelona won 2, not a huge difference. and we reached the final thrice and semi-finals 4 years in a row.
There are better midfield units in world football than ours, but then we have better defensive and striking units than most clubs. Swings and roundabouts.
Blame has to be put on SAF for letting the midfield deteriorate into the state it's currently in and putting so much pressure under our new manager to strengthen it.
He kept neglecting the midfield in favor of positions where he had more success buying players and relying on our old guard (on of whom he brought out of retirement) and Carrick to continuously bail us out rather than actually going out and making a purchase there. it's actually crazy when you look at the lack of midfield activity under him in his last 4 to 5 years, and whilst people can continue excuse it because we've continued to win, it was always inevitably going to bite us in the arse, and the position we're in now with our favoured target already gone from our grasp whilst loads of other young midfielders have been sold this Summer without us even looking bothered, well, not promising.
He kept neglecting the midfield in favor of positions where he had more success buying players and relying on our old guard (on of whom he brought out of retirement) and Carrick to continuously bail us out rather than actually going out and making a purchase there. it's actually crazy when you look at the lack of midfield activity under him in his last 4 to 5 years, and whilst people can continue excuse it because we've continued to win, it was always inevitably going to bite us in the arse, and the position we're in now with our favoured target already gone from our grasp whilst loads of other young midfielders have been sold this Summer without us even looking bothered, well, not promising.
Just a thought but I wonder if we let Bayern have free run at thiago in return for an approach to one of theirs
Why as this Fabregas rumour resurfaced again ,what's the source.
The only one we could realistically get is Gustavo, and he ain't a patch on Thiago as a player, so it'd make absolutely no sense.
Is he better than what we currently have? And if so, by how much? If he's comfortably better than Anderson/Cleverley and can act as a playmaker, he might be worth looking into.
I agree largely with this.
Even the most ardent United fan would have to say that the success the club have enjoyed over the last couple of years is down to Fergie's ability to generate more from the team than the sum of its parts. Had he been in charge of Chelsea or City last year trhey would have won the league at a canter.
It may be that he had an incling this was his last year and didnt want to spend huge sums of money on players the new gaffer might not want - and fair enough. Hopefully the club back Moyes and allow him to bring in the type of players the club now needs.
The success of the last couple of years has undoubtedly papered over some cracks. Hopefully the issues will be addressed in this transfer window to allow Moyes to hit the ground running.
he's not a playmaker by any means, far more defensive. He is better than anything else we have in that position but that's not saying a lot.
Would he be a good buy? Well, yeah, but so would any good midfielder right now.
I have to say we're in a bit of a mess at the moment. We've got just one proven midfielder who we can rely on for an entire season. No matter how you twist and turn it, that's absolutely shocking for a team that aspires to be the best in the world. Cleverley has promise but can we rely on him for a full season? Anderson is injured half the time and even when fit terribly inconsistent. Jones isn't a midfielder, Fletcher is dead, Kagawa is more attacker than midfielder, Powell definately isn't ready, same for Januzaj and Giggs at CM spells disaster.
So that just leaves us with Carrick. Will he be able to carry our midfield again? What if he's injured for a lengthy period? Surely that means any chance of trophies gone. We desperately need additions in midfield, no question. And if all the biggest talents are out of reach and we could only get Fellaini, than so be it. 2 proven midfielders is still better than a single one.
To be honest, I'd say it's desperate times now. Pull out all the stops. Go after the likes of Gundogan, Modric, Lars Bender, Vidal and pursue them aggressively. Pay over the top if we have to. Paying 30-40M right now to get a top class midfielder is better than to sit on top of that money and play a non-existent midfield once again. And if we still can't get any of them, tough luck, but at least we tried.
So that just leaves us with Carrick. Will he be able to carry our midfield again? What if he's injured for a lengthy period? Surely that means any chance of trophies gone. We desperately need additions in midfield, no question. And if all the biggest talents are out of reach and we could only get Fellaini, than so be it. 2 proven midfielders is still better than a single one.
To be honest, I'd say it's desperate times now. Pull out all the stops. Go after the likes of Gundogan, Modric, Lars Bender, Vidal and pursue them aggressively. Pay over the top if we have to. Paying 30-40M right now to get a top class midfielder is better than to sit on top of that money and play a non-existent midfield once again. And if we still can't get any of them, tough luck, but at least we tried.
The Independent ran it today.
There's been some speculation in Spain for a while that Barca would rather have the money than the player. However Cesc is good mates with Messi - on the field and off - Cesc and Mrs Cesc were on holiday with Mrs Messi, while Messi was off playing those charity matches in the US for example. Very unlikely that the club would put any pressure on Fabregas to leave, unless he wants to go.
He did sound a bit sorry for himself last season, but he's denied repeatedly that he has any desire to leave this summer.
In any case, him and Thiago in one summer? More trouble than the board can afford I would think.
Real Madrid on the other hand still have some selling to do. Two midfielders in, who's coming out?
Who are the two Real have signed? Illaramendi and ??
Will Rooney make more sense in the position Cesc is played at Barcelona? I don't know why but I suddenly am not averse to the possibility.
Will Rooney make more sense in the position Cesc is played at Barcelona? I don't know why but I suddenly am not averse to the possibility.
Yes Rooney would make more sense, but with Barcelona spending so much time and effort to sign their products back I think its an absolute no brainer that they're going to keep him. Not sell him and then in a years time pine for him to come back and start another campaign to sign him
At this point I'd take fellaini. That's how desperate our midfield is.
Right.
I read midfielders and assumed CM.
Edit: A newbie just messaged me that they also signed Casemiro. I guess that is what jo^3 was talking about.
I could be the sole minority here in thinking that in as much as we seem in need of decent midfielders, what we really need is a change of approach when the team is not in possession. We have seen teams with inferior individuals boss us around in midfield due to their work ethic and high pressing and there is probably no reason why we shouldn't be doing the same to other teams. The most glaring omission from our midfield in recent years has been the dynamism in our approach, an attribute closely related to how the team is usually setup and which most often leads to "easy/relatively pressure free" possession for the opposition. I reckon this is the one aspect of our tactical approach in need of a review. Why not have team push up, harass the opposition the second we lose possession, gang up on them to limit their options from early on? We are in possession of players capable of benefiting from quick turnovers, players adept at spraying long passes as well as making strides and taking up strategic attacking positions. Sadly, however, we have been somewhat reluctant to engage the opposition in possession and this has in many ways contributed to the view of ineptness of our midfield, more undue pressure on the defence and a lot more work for the goalkeeper with the opposition seemingly free to walk into our defensive third.
The change in approach will not be something completely new to United just a return to what we used to do in the 90s and most recently in 2008/09. Lesser teams have been more successful in this approach than us (see Liverpool 2009/09, and more recently Southampton and Bilbao against us) and it could just work. We already have a decent bunch of promising midfielders coming through and ones who may benefit more from a change of tactics than from additional purchases.
The change in approach will not be something completely new to United just a return to what we used to do in the 90s and most recently in 2008/09. Lesser teams have been more successful in this approach than us (see Liverpool 2009/09, and more recently Southampton and Bilbao against us) and it could just work. We already have a decent bunch of promising midfielders coming through and ones who may benefit more from a change of tactics than from additional purchases.
I agree too many times we allowed the opposition time to settle on the ball and get back in the game. The pressing style could work we need somebody mobile beside Carrick.
It's so sad that even though it's a nailed on certainty that certain players will not be sold by their clubs such as fabregas, modric, gundogan, draxler, veratti, vidal......it's the same names that get recycled on here or in lazy tabloids over and over again.
Also bryan robson is right and tom cleverley is good enough and will only get better and just needs to add goals to his locker but he is the hardest working player out there but we need more depth in central midfoeld for sure as anderson and possibly fletcher can not be relied on
Realistic targets include....matic, konoplyanka, strootman, xabi alonso, fellaini, candreva, mccarthy, barkley
Also bryan robson is right and tom cleverley is good enough and will only get better and just needs to add goals to his locker but he is the hardest working player out there but we need more depth in central midfoeld for sure as anderson and possibly fletcher can not be relied on
Realistic targets include....matic, konoplyanka, strootman, xabi alonso, fellaini, candreva, mccarthy, barkley
To be honest I will be surprised if we are pursuing the same old rehashed names in the newspapers. It would make the scouting system seem somewhat not as expansive as it should be. The beauty if having an established system should be its ability to identify targets to match the requirements of the team, their availability, budget etc. and not just to look at the same targets every other football pundit thinks should be good for United. I for one will like to believe that Moyes did come with his own scouting reports from Everton and that he is busy reconciling it with the one he has found at the club since he took over.
The point where plenty of midfielders have already either gone or have been stated as not for sale at any price or not leaving this summer like Gundogan. What options are there left that we even have the slightest chance of getting? De Rossi, Fellaini, Khedira, Strootman and Luis Gustavo?
De Rossi would improve our first team but he is pretty old now and wouldn't be long term thinking at all. Strootman looks like he'll go to Roma, and Fellaini wouldn't necessarily improve our first team. I'd take Khedira or Luis Gustavo, although I'd take Gustavo before Khedira. Both would be upgrades on what we have, and have great energy levels and would be good defensive midfielders.
The thing is we have plenty of mobile midfielders at United from Cleverly and Anderson to Phil Jones, Powell and the reserve guys coming through. As Southampton, us in the past and to a large extent Barcelona have shown, you don't really need specialized players for the high intensity pressing system to work, even forwards can help lessen the burden of recovering possession. The most important things are stamina and discipline, both of which our team can't be accused of lacking
Is United still obsessed with the "value" thing that Fergie mentioned a few seasons ago? I find it a strange coincidence that the only attempted move we've heard of so far was for a player that was very cheap considering his potential (even just considering his actual qualities already).
There are midfielders around, it's just they are expensive. If United isn't willing to fork out €35-40m or something like that (even for someone like Moutinho/Matic) then you won't have an easy time finding a ready-to-play reinforcement. There may be some bargains around (in the Kagawa mould) but they all require careful planning.
There must be about 10 clubs or more in Europe who are technically capable of bidding 40-50m for a player these days, "value" has drastically changed.
There are midfielders around, it's just they are expensive. If United isn't willing to fork out €35-40m or something like that (even for someone like Moutinho/Matic) then you won't have an easy time finding a ready-to-play reinforcement. There may be some bargains around (in the Kagawa mould) but they all require careful planning.
There must be about 10 clubs or more in Europe who are technically capable of bidding 40-50m for a player these days, "value" has drastically changed.
These guys may be mobile but you also need to have that quality as a player also, Cleverely and Anderson aren't good enough. I'm not sure about the reserves guys as I haven't watched them. I agree you don't need specialized players but you need a high workrate and the whole team buying in. Cleverely,Anderson and Rooney are 3 players that spring to mind funnily enough.
Please dont tell me Matic will cost £35 million euros
Moyes would have outdone himself if we can snap up Fabregas.
Probably. At least that's what Benfiquista's expect. Not saying that's his worth, but the coming of clubs such as Monaco, PSG, and the Russians have inflated these prices considerably. I think Moutinho was a perfectly good player for United for example, but you would have to bid against Monaco...
I guess but wouldnt the same apply to Garay?
I hope we move beyond the value nonsense. Sometimes you have to pay big to get the right players.
Garay has is release clause set at €20m. They can't expect to get higher than that. Matic's clause is €50m so they have more negotiating power.
They are the only two players Benfica fans unanimously regard as World Class (bear in mind the standard isn't the same as World Class over there). And they don't want to lose Garay at all, he's their best defender and most of the profit will go to Madrid.
He should sign Fabregas. That would be super.
The value thingy was when the club was laden heavily under the Glazer debt. We left that behind 2 seasons ago.
He topped our Poll
Cant remember who I voted for
Cant remember who I voted for
Update:
Legend:
Sold
Unrealistic
Confirmed United Bid
Caf Poll:
76 - Fabregas
58 - Thiago Alcantara
34 - Gundogan
24 - Wilshire
13 - Strootman
8 - Modric
8 - Vidal
6 - Fellaini
4 - Wanyama
3 - Veratti
2 - Marchisio
2 - M'Vila
2 - Banega
1 - Sven Bender
Legend:
Confirmed United Bid
Caf Poll:
76 - Fabregas
13 - Strootman
8 - Modric
6 - Fellaini
3 - Veratti
2 - Marchisio
2 - Banega
Fabregas for me. Proven in the Premier League, world class player and has experience in a leadership role which will be important considering the position we are in. Like people have said though, it's disappointing to see the position we are in midfield wise. We have needed a quality midfield signing for a couple of years now, and although we have been able to cope, the sitaution has dragged on to long now.
As I say, I would love Fabregas at the club, and he would make a huge difference for us in more ways than one.
As I say, I would love Fabregas at the club, and he would make a huge difference for us in more ways than one.
Not mine.
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