None of our formations worked too well last season. It was the first time I saw us struggling to that extent against the likes of Southampton, Tottenham, Villa and Reading. Our midfield was overwhelmed by the underdogs'.
Which midfielder should Moyes buy ?
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The 4231 I think we should play requires two defensively strong midfielders and a fluid 3. We only have one of the former, and Valencia doesn't fit the latter. I wouldn't class what we played last season a 4231, since we played at least one out and out winger.
I don't need to name the millionaire players currently plying their trade in Manchester, do I?
Out of interest, what is the reason for you wanting to play a genuine 4-2-3-1?
It doesn't matter why they're there, and how they got there. Millionaire players still play in Manchester, and went there of their own free will.
Others will go there also.
It's just something I've always liked. I think it would get the best out of our attacking talents already at the club, and with an extra defensively sound midfielder some of the responsibility to always be the "holding" midfielder can be handed over by Carrick to allow him more scope to play his natural game. The 3 mentioned, Kagawa, Rooney and Nani would work well for me in a fluid 3 behind RVP. I think the days of out and out wingers are gone, and I'd like to see us try something different.
Wow. I agree with you. Spot on. But just like Bayern we need two hard working mf behind these attacking players. Carrick is world class defensively but a little bit slow offensive. For that reason we need a proper b2b player with steel and energy. Who the feck is available then? Because we need improvements to compete with Europes top teams.
So there's absolutely no hope for Fletcher then? Because if that lad can manage to get fit and reproduce some of his '07-'08 form, we'll have enough options I believe. He'd work well with not just Carrick but also Ando.
Anyone mention Joey Barton?
I think Rooney's part of the problem in a fluid 4231, he's really a old-fashioned second striker rather than a modern No.10 like Kagawa (who must be fairly pissed off at the lack of opportunities he's had).
True but I think the point Peter was making comes up when you have two clubs bidding for the same player, one from the more glamorous city and the other from Manchester. In most cases if both clubs are among the biggest 20 or so in Europe and can pay the same then location will play a big part in most players decisions.
That for me is simply the way the modern day footballer works, Roy Keane talked about it on a lesser scale with players wives dictating the location of their husbands prospective club; having an adverse effect on Sunderland's ability to attract players up north if they are from the south/foreign.
I love the formation too, I just can't see it working for us for the simple fact that the make up of our squad isn't set for it.
Firstly, I think Carrick is better in a two with more responsibility. He's flourished since he hasn't had to clean up behind Scholes.
Secondly, the two DM spots, say Carrick does take one, we still need another. Say one gets injured? It'd throw the whole system out as two DM's are essential which means we'd have to look for two DM's this transfer window.
Thirdly Rooney, Kagawa and Nani aside, who else could play across that line? Young? He's quite natural at it but hardly inspiring. Valencia would relish the space being so far inside, it would give him acres of room to turn away from his team mates and the goal.
Where would Welbeck and Hernandez get minutes? I'd guess Welbeck in the 3 behind the striker and Hernandez as a back up to RVP.
We could play it and it could work but there does seem to be a lot of potential problems to it. Like you though, I'd love to see it happen.
Nah, Rooney can fit in, maybe not as well as Kagawa but he can do the job in that fluid three for sure. He has enough about him to interchange with the others and maybe even dictate the play at the same time.
Sounds horrible saying it, but I can't see him back playing at all. I think he's finished, and we'd be as well doing our shopping with him not in mind, and seeing any comeback as a bonus.
Nah, I think he's adaptable enough to be able to roam in a fluid 3. He was effective enough playing a free role with a nominal left side starting position a few years back. Stick him in the centre of the 3 and tell him to roam, stick two either side and tell them to roam too. Roaming all over the show.
We only have one defensively minded midfielder now, and if he gets injured we're fecked, so buying one and playing the two doesn't bring any more risk. I think Cleverley or Jones could provide cover if one were injured anyway. Not perfect, by any means, but you'd hope the two main boys stay fit, and make do in an emergency.
If our squad isn't set for it then we buy players that suit it, and promote from within.
I'm sure Moyes reads here and will agree, so watch our 4231 take shape.
Strootman and Veloso. Sorted.
Strootman and Veloso. Sorted.
I rated Veloso back when he was in Lisbon playing with Moutinho. Not so sure he's done anything noteworthy since moving to Kiev to attract our attention.
We have history.
4-2-3-1 is a brilliant formation. I am not convinced that Rooney would be great for that, but still Kagawa as No.10 with Nani and one of Welbeck/Zaha as wingers/inside forwards and RVP upfront will be great to watch. The big problem is to find a good defensive/box to box midfielder, hopefully Moyes have someone in mind.
I think Rooney would do well in a 4-2-3-1. I think some fans underrate how well he plays from the left, it gives the front four the ability to roam and interchange positions, this would work if/when we have Van Persie- Rooney Kagawa and Nani out there. The deepest two in midfield is where we need to look at acquiring talent for me, one of those players has to be a mobile player like a Vidal or Yaya Toure or they run the risk of being overrun. As good as Carrick is I don't think he possess that authority at the very highest level.
I think United should have attempted to sign Moutinho before Porto started the dealing with Monaco. He'd fit like a glove in your midfield, and owes little to the top box-to-box midfielders around. I'm pissed off he went to Monaco. A loss for the player and for United.
Busquets/ Marchisio/ Vidal/ Fibreglass would be my top choices... even ahead of Thiago... It's just I don't see any of them as real targets.. 
Busquets/ Marchisio/ Vidal/ Fibreglass would be my top choices... even ahead of Thiago... It's just I don't see any of them as real targets..
Vidal is a fecking monster in central midfield and I'd love to see him here but would have thought if Juve needed money in to fund other signings, that Marchisio would be deemed "more" dispensable? I do like Marchisio too. I just like central midfielders that play in Serie A, tend to be solid and reliable (except for Montolivo and Aquilani!)
I hate myself for this, but I'm starting to warm towards Fellaini. I still hate him, and wouldn't want him here, but he would make sense as a signing, as he'd allow us to play the 4231 system Ive wanted for a while(ball winner alongside a deep lying playmaker, with the front three given more freedom).
There are definitely better and more preferable targets, but if it was Fellaini or no-one, I think I'd take him.
There are definitely better and more preferable targets, but if it was Fellaini or no-one, I think I'd take him.
Aquilani before his Liverpool move, if you saw much of him was a very good player... can't quite explain it myself. In regards to Montolivio, he is a more of a flair/wide player than a grounding CM, but I can't see Juve letting Marchisio or Vidal go personally... I don't think they need to sell, plus have other good young talented CM's I won't mention
lolFellaini, Barry or Kondogbia... one or two out of that list and we're ready to launch a monster campaign.
I struggle to think of many Serie A players who have come to the PL and done all that well.
Vidal looks very good for Juventus, and he's not a classically "italian" style player. His style probably lends itself to the PL. Don't get all the fuss about Marchisio to be honest - never really been that impressed. He's neat and tidy but not sure he'd be able to get himself into the game playing as an attacking midfield player - just don't think he's dynamic enough.
Aquilani before his Liverpool move, if you saw much of him was a very good player... can't quite explain it myself. In regards to Montolivio, he is a more of a flair/wide player than a grounding CM, but I can't see Juve letting Marchisio or Vidal go personally... I don't think they need to sell, plus have other good young talented CM's I won't mention
Yeah you can mention Pogba! Hm, I thought with Pirlo, Vidal, Marchisio, Pogba in the mix, Juve may sell one of Vidal and Marchisio given that it seems Pogba is becoming first choice under Conte?
A lot of good midfielders have already moved this Summer for non-excessive amounts of money. It feels like we put all our eggs into the Thiago basket and when the club decide to overnegotiate/Pep said he wanted him, we were left a bit fecked. I really hope Moyes has some good replacement targets lined up, targets who don't have big afros and like to elbow people.
I don't know how Moyes will set up, so I guess I want a midfielder that plays alongside Carrick in a 4-2-3-1. I'm happy for the "2" to dominate midfield and the 4 up front can cause carnage!
Can't have Anderson or Cleverley. Cleverley, is he "all that"? IMO a resounding "No".
From last season, Pogba was far from first choice, but they tend to play with 3 in midfield, I would say Pirlo/Vid/March are first choice with a few younger talents getting a good amount of game time such as Pogba... that's without mentioning others who can do a job such as Isla, K Asamoah, Pepe... and a few young guys such as Padoin/ Maronne I expect will want to see some game time, so he may struggle to accommodate all of them, but can't see them selling one of Marchision/ Vidal.... still, we can dream
Agree 100% on Fellaini. I do have the worse fear that we will get him because we cannot get anyone else, and he is available subject to a clause. Mind you, doesn't that clause elapse whenever?
Anyway, just SOMEONE to come in and he won't need to be a world-beater to be better than Anderson and Cleverley!
Khedira would be a great signing to play alongside Carrick imo, and is apparently available. Can't see it happening though.
Fellaini would walk into our midfield. He'd quite comfortably be our second best cm after Carrick.
He isn't the best option by a long shot, but he's a far far better player than he's given credit for.
He isn't the best option by a long shot, but he's a far far better player than he's given credit for.
This signing makes too much sense, which automatically means it won't happen.
The reality is that on the face of it, any relatively decent CM out there would be a good addition.
That's the underlying problem though...how can such a massive part of the team be so weak, and how has it got to the point where a good player would improve it as opposed to a super world class individual or however we're categorising the best.
That's the underlying problem though...how can such a massive part of the team be so weak, and how has it got to the point where a good player would improve it as opposed to a super world class individual or however we're categorising the best.
Only because our current second best player is a 40 year old who can only play 20 games a season.
SAF is the greatest football manager of all time, but his inability to strengthen the midfield area is his one glaring failure.
I believe that had we spent the Ronaldo money on two truly world class midfield players back in '09 or'10 then we would have won at least one more champions league trophy.
World class strikers
World class wingers (before last season)
World class defence
Average midfield
That has summed up our squad for 3-4 years now.
Totally agree mate. The trouble is beggars can't be choosers. The Afro haired tit wouldn't even be in my top 10 midfield targets but he's increasingly looking like the only real option we have left.
If its Fellaini or nobody, then I'd go for the former.
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