What will it take to sack moyes?

[devilish]

Oh feck me, I know some posters hate us "over-analysing" everything Moyes says but the guy really is a loser, no wonder Everton fans grew so bored of him.

"Hopefully"...

That pissed me off too. Hopefully? Does this guy seriously think that he can take the champions to 7th place despite spending 67m. spend another 60-100m in rebuilding, not get to 4th place and still get away with it?

If he doesn't make it to 4th place next season then he will be fired. Its that simple

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

I'm sorry but I have to use the Kagawa situation as yet another stick to beat Moyes with.

Kagawa was Man of the Match against Bayern and was excellent in the second half in the first leg. Kagawa is simple one of our best players and should have been playing as a starter all season.

He showed that he is just as good as all those Bayern superstars, if not better than most.

It's too bad Moyes' old school mentality would opt for bigger, faster, more conservative players.

 

[PlayerOne]

Do we foresee the board sounding out any potential Moyes successor from here 'til the end of the season? Because that's the only scenario I see Moyes actually getting the boot, if the club have a new manager lined up already. There is hardly an abundance of quality managers available this coming summer, is there?

I think this is the one of the reasons why he won't lose his job.

 

[stevoc]

IMO we could have good chance of recruiting Frank de Boer from Ajax.

Thats a good shout actually a name that hasn't came up much in discussions about moyes replacement.

Young coach with a good record

 

[bucky]

Thats a good shout actually a name that hasn't came up much in discussions about moyes replacement.

Young coach with a good record

He's also not really having that good of an Ajax team respectively squad compared to other periods anyway. Like most Ajax managers he had to deal with losing good players and still managed to become champions every year, since he took over. When he took over they were in fourth place, if I remember it correctly. Their European campaigns have been decent as well, considering the squads he had/s and who they got drawn against. Blind, Veltman and Klaassen are probably their best players this season and I don't think they are as talented as Eriksen.

 

[SteveJ]

Plus, he recently said that he wants to move on to a bigger club, to improve himself & try a new experience.

 

[MoskvaRed]

I thought that rumour was made up by posters on this site in a desperate hope that it would give us a get out clause to sack Moyes at the end of the season.

Is there one shred of evidence to suggest that such a clause exists? I doubt it.

No evidence but, given how important CL revenues are to keep the Glazers' cash cow ticking over, it would be surprising if there were not performance targets of this nature. Plus it ought to have seemed so low risk that Moyes could not reasonably have objected. But, given the strange circumstances of his hiring (assuming he was the chosen one rather than sixth choice), maybe the people in charge did get complacent and thought the wins and the trophies would keep flowing in regardless.

 

[A1X]

A 28% loss rate and a win rate of 54%.

 

[stevoc]

He's also not really having that good of an Ajax team respectively squad compared to other periods anyway. Like most Ajax managers he had to deal with losing good players and still managed to become champions every year, since he took over. When he took over they were in fourth place, if I remember it correctly. Their European campaigns have been decent as well, considering the squads he had/s and who they got drawn against. Blind, Veltman and Klaassen are probably their best players this season and I don't think they are as talented as Eriksen.

Yeah i don't watch much dutch football, but was impressed by ajax against us and city in the last 2 years.

Probably fits the profile of manager we should have went for, well at least if it was going to be the 5 year rebuilding project which it now seems to be turning into.

 

[Ubik]

No evidence but, given how important CL revenues are to keep the Glazers' cash cow ticking over, it would be surprising if there were not performance targets of this nature. Plus it ought to have seemed so low risk that Moyes could not reasonably have objected. But, given the strange circumstances of his hiring (assuming he was the chosen one rather than sixth choice), maybe the people in charge did get complacent and thought the wins and the trophies would keep flowing in regardless.

It was from a Duncan Castles article, whether that makes it more or less reliable than something made up on Redcafe I'm not sure.

 

[Deleted member 78215]

So:

We end the season trophy-less.
We are more than likely to finish outside the top 4.
We will probably finish 6th after being champions the season before.
We're going to lose Giggs, Evra, Vidic, Rio - 4 modern-era United heroes.
Moyes is our manager.
Moyes won't be sacked (and has a 6 year contract).
Steve Round is assistant manager of Manchester United.
Rooney is on 300k/w.
Knocked out of the CL.
No CL for a year.
Liverpool might win the league.


...

 

[Rowem]

I'm surprised at you. I'm a long way from certain that he's the right man for the job but your bracketed comments are fairly petty. We've been thumped by City and Liverpool and of course that's unacceptable but we've played some decent football against Villa, Newcastle, West Ham and Olympiacos, shown signs of an actual plan and ran the best team in the world close in the CL quarter-finals. I'd expect a bit more balance from you.

Agreed.

Well no, technically I disagree because I'm not surprised by it in the slightest anymore. Haters gowna hate. But I agree with your logic.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Pexbo's one of many formerly sensible posters who've let this godforsaken season drive them into a constant state of pseudo-hysteria.

I reckon a psychologist could write that shit up: "a case study of mass hysteria amongst manchester united fans in the post-Ferguson era"

 

[SalfordRed1960]

A 28% loss rate and a win rate of 54%.

Feels a lot worse. Any idea how many of the draws were from winning positions (I think 3 - Southampton, Cardiff, Fulham) Also, 2 losses that probably should have been draws (Everton, Newcastle). So basically 8 points difference. That would have made top 4 very very realistic, yet we have been pretty shit by our standards. Doesn't say a lot for the rest of the league. Would also make the difference between us and teams at the top quite small in comparison. So are we really that far off challenging.

Take away the dross football, a couple of good purchases can make an immense difference to this squad.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Feels a lot worse. Any idea how many of the draws were from winning positions (I think 3 - Southampton, Cardiff, Fulham) Also, 2 losses that probably should have been draws (Everton, Newcastle). So basically 8 points difference. That would have made top 4 very very realistic, yet we have been pretty shit by our standards. Doesn't say a lot for the rest of the league. Would also make the difference between us and teams at the top quite small in comparison. So are we really that far off challenging.

Take away the dross football, a couple of good purchases can make an immense difference to this squad.

Agreed. A lot of those draws and were down to shite defending and not a lot to do with Moyes...though the absence of top defenders in particular a LB could be levelled at him and Woodward's inactivity in the transfer window

 

[Kakeru]

Unless a manager is unhappy at their club, they probably won't be willing to talk till after the season anyway, particularly if Moyes is still in the post. Van Gaal probably being the only exception, but he'll have a World Cup to worry about first. But it's a hell of a lot easier to get a long term manager in the summer than it is mid-season.

If we look at history, there's nothing that says we can't hire Van Gaal before or even during the World Cup. For instance, Chelsea signed Scolari when his Portugal side were in the middle of Euro 2008.

Speaking of unhappy managers, people also named De Boer at Ajax. Nevertheless, I would also hope our people are calling Klopp to see if there's something we can give in return to help Dortmund (be it making Dortmund a prime destination - nearly exclusive - for loaning promising United youngsters or just send a huge load of money as compensation) in order to secure him.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

If we look at history, there's nothing that says we can't hire Van Gaal before or even during the World Cup. For instance, Chelsea signed Scolari when his Portugal side were in the middle of Euro 2008.

Speaking of unhappy managers, people also named De Boer at Ajax. Nevertheless, I would also hope our people are calling Klopp to see if there's something we can give in return to help Dortmund (be it making Dortmund a prime destination - nearly exclusive - for loaning promising United youngsters or just send a huge load of money as compensation) in order to secure him.

Scolari? How did that work out for Chelsea. And what's this obsession with Van Gaal?

 

[BennyBlanco]

Scolari? How did that work out for Chelsea. And what's this obsession with Van Gaal?

He's he's won league titles at Ajax then Barca, then AZ-Alkmaar, and then Bayern? because he actually plays and encourages attacking free flowing football that this club has stood proud for since about...the 2nd world war? because unlike our beloved general Moyes he actually insists on working with a group of players inherited, coaching and improving players and wouldnt feel the need to spend a 100million worth of talent over the summer just to finish 4th, because unlike the falsity of Moyes "plays youngsters since his Everton days" arguement, Van Gaal actually does give youngsters a chance.

Perhaps he's not a Mourinho but he's a hell of a lot better suited to being this clubs manager than Moyes.

 

[LR7]

I think we just need to accept he's here and is more than likely staying here for the foreseeable future. I just hope things improve.

 

[Kakeru]

Scolari? How did that work out for Chelsea. And what's this obsession with Van Gaal?

I'm just saying that it is not impossible to sign a manager DURING an international competition. Scolari was just one case although it ended badly for him.

What's the obsession with Van Gaal? First of all, he's a manager who believes deep in 1) attacking football and 2) blooding youngsters while importing lots of principles from Dutch football. For starters, he was the one implementing the basis of Bayern's current style after taking over the mess left by Klinsmann, before Heynckes and Guardiola tweaked a few things here and there since.

What we need is a man who commands respect and yet believes in principles that made United until the last few years. If none of the young names is available for an immediate replacement, having Van Gaal to stabilize everything and leave a fully functional system to a young astute manager after 3-4 years is an excellent option for many people here.

 

[Sandikan]

To the people wondering about a sackings clause for not finishing top 4, does Moyes look like he thinks he's in any danger of being sacked?!

I'd be more surprised if there WAS any clause for poor performance, I think no one even gave it a second thought, I reckon "Only" coming 3rd was probably seen as the most likely outcome, with 4th as an absolute disaster minimum job.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I'm just saying that it is not impossible to sign a manager DURING an international competition. Scolari was just one case although it ended badly for him.

What's the obsession with Van Gaal? First of all, he's a manager who believes deep in 1) attacking football and 2) blooding youngsters while importing lots of principles from Dutch football. For starters, he was the one implementing the basis of Bayern's current style after taking over the mess left by Klinsmann, before Heynckes and Guardiola tweaked a few things here and there since.

What we need is a man who commands respect and yet believes in principles that made United until the last few years. If none of the young names is available for an immediate replacement, having Van Gaal to stabilize everything and leave a fully functional system to a young astute manager after 3-4 years is an excellent option for many people here.

You've convinced me

 

[Ubik]

If we look at history, there's nothing that says we can't hire Van Gaal before or even during the World Cup. For instance, Chelsea signed Scolari when his Portugal side were in the middle of Euro 2008.

Speaking of unhappy managers, people also named De Boer at Ajax. Nevertheless, I would also hope our people are calling Klopp to see if there's something we can give in return to help Dortmund (be it making Dortmund a prime destination - nearly exclusive - for loaning promising United youngsters or just send a huge load of money as compensation) in order to secure him.

I agree that he'd be the simplest to get and the World Cup wouldn't stop him being hired, my main point there was that we aren't going to get someone in to replace Moyes before the end of the season, if he happened to be sacked tomorrow.

 

[stevoc]

To the people wondering about a sackings clause for not finishing top 4, does Moyes look like he thinks he's in any danger of being sacked?!

I'd be more surprised if there WAS any clause for poor performance, I think no one even gave it a second thought, I reckon "Only" coming 3rd was probably seen as the most likely outcome, with 4th as an absolute disaster minimum job.

Fair point, but there again how would he know. If they are going to sack him he will be one of the last people to know before it is made public you would think. The club managed to keep Fergies retirement secret so its not beyond the realms of possibility we could keep something like that quiet also and just between members of the board.

 

[Sandikan]

Fair point, but there again how would he know. If they are going to sack him he will be one of the last people to know before it is made public you would think. The club managed to keep Fergies retirement secret so its not beyond the realms of possibility we could keep something like that quiet also and just between members of the board.

True, but I think it'd be a momumental shock if we just waited until the end of the season and sacked him!

I'm quite sure we've got deals close to being lined up ready to announce in late May/early June. We must have learnt the lesson of last summer.

 

[DWelbz19]

You've convinced me

He's also a manager who only spends when he needs to. He would make sure he's got everything out of the players he currently has before he tries to splurge out for names. So that is attacking football, consistent trust in the youth players, trust within the team he has, and is a huge advocate of the 433. Sounds like the antithesis of what we have...

 

[Red Defence]

Please United, will someone over there sack Moyes. The mere thought of him being here next season is to depressing for me to seriously contemplate.

I've followed United from Busby to now. We've had a variation in the quality of managers from poor to brilliant but I've never been as depressed by the presence of any one of those managers as I have been with the presence of Moyes. Surely we can do better than this.

 

[redevil2]

What do you mean completely over, we're battling it out with spurs for sixth

Do we want to be 6th though? Given Moyes' limited ability I fear he would concentrate on Europa League and neglects our domestic league since it is easier to handle than the League and he would be desperate to win a trophy no matter its status.

Honestly, I don't want him to continue to take United to the Everton level. But we all have agreed have we!! Sigh

 

[Reducation]

I've read/heard a lot of comments on DM that were simply baseless rubbish. Comments on his personality, attitude etc from people who do not know him.

The players seem to have a psychological problem with home games. To presume that this is DM's fault is overly simplistic.

It could well be argued that this season's on-pitch problems could be due to Fergie's departure per se, regardless of his replacement.

 

[Getsme]

The players seem to have a psychological problem with home games. To presume that this is DM's fault is overly simplistic.

Eh?

 

[redevil2]

Fills you full of confidence that it will only be one year, doesn't it.

OMG!
"My focus now is on getting this team back in the competition. Hopefully it will only be one year where we have to rebuild."
Hopefully one year!!! What a loser.

 

[Rednotdead]

OMG!
"My focus now is on getting this team back in the competition. Hopefully it will only be one year where we have to rebuild."
Hopefully one year!!! What a loser.

It wouldn't matter a toss what Moyes ever said or didn't say - people like you would find something to whine and complain at.

 

[Adebesi]

Pexbo's one of many formerly sensible posters who've let this godforsaken season drive them into a constant state of pseudo-hysteria.

I reckon a psychologist could write that shit up: "a case study of mass hysteria amongst manchester united fans in the post-Ferguson era"

I can feel my sanity being eroded by the hour.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I can feel my sanity being eroded by the hour.

It's like a fecking virus. Reckon I'm going under soon enough myself.

 

[stevoc]

True, but I think it'd be a momumental shock if we just waited until the end of the season and sacked him!

I'm quite sure we've got deals close to being lined up ready to announce in late May/early June. We must have learnt the lesson of last summer.

Would it really be that much of a shock though? I never for a second seen us sacking him during the season since he was appointed, not after all the PR guff we spouted about giving managers time that was just never going to happen.

Would make the club look flakey sacking him before the end of the season, im not saying he will definitely get sacked but i think theres a strong possibility.

Also im sure its possible we have deals lined up but i doubt any potential deals would falter just because we sack moyes, if a player is coming to us it won't specifically because of moyes.

Do we want to be 6th though? Given Moyes' limited ability I fear he would concentrate on Europa League and neglects our domestic league since it is easier to handle than the League and he would be desperate to win a trophy no matter its status.

Honestly, I don't want him to continue to take United to the Everton level. But we all have agreed have we!! Sigh

I was half joking there,but do we want to qualify for the Europa? Well its the only trophy the club has never won, plus we have a big squad built for 4 competitions, so the extra games could come in handy for giving people playing time.

I won't we devastated if we miss out, but its not the end of the world if we are in it either.

 

[redevil2]

It wouldn't matter a toss what Moyes ever said or didn't say - people like you would find something to whine and complain at.

So, people like you do not have anything to whine and complain about? Are you quite happy we are not playing for anything in April and the season is over prematurely and not knowing which direction the club is going? This is a serious question to people like you.

 

[redevil2]

I was half joking there,but do we want to qualify for the Europa? Well its the only trophy the club has never won, plus we have a big squad built for 4 competitions, so the extra games could come in handy for giving people playing time.

I won't we devastated if we miss out, but its not the end of the world if we are in it either.

But given Moyes' mentality and ability, do you think he would see the Europa as just extra games though (instead of using full force so that he would make sure he wins something no matter the status of the competition)? What I fear, he would have more excuse to continue to reign if he indeed wins in Europa (or progress) since it would be quite an achievement for him personally already.

 

[Sandikan]

Would it really be that much of a shock though? I never for a second seen us sacking him during the season since he was appointed, not after all the PR guff we spouted about giving managers time that was just never going to happen.

Would make the club look flakey sacking him before the end of the season, im not saying he will definitely get sacked but i think theres a strong possibility.

Also im sure its possible we have deals lined up but i doubt any potential deals would falter just because we sack moyes, if a player is coming to us it won't specifically because of moyes.



I was half joking there,but do we want to qualify for the Europa? Well its the only trophy the club has never won, plus we have a big squad built for 4 competitions, so the extra games could come in handy for giving people playing time.

I won't we devastated if we miss out, but its not the end of the world if we are in it either.

It won't, but it'd be mental to splash big cash on players without having a new manager in place. What if he didn't fancy the player?!
Unless you think a new manager is already in place and already quoting who he wants?

And any new manager means we'll piss about in the summer again, as we'll spend time getting the right man in.

No chance he's going this summer. Why wait? It'd be ridiculous if we're waiting until 7th May out of principle?!

 

[Pexbo]

Pexbo's one of many formerly sensible posters who've let this godforsaken season drive them into a constant state of pseudo-hysteria.

I reckon a psychologist could write that shit up: "a case study of mass hysteria amongst manchester united fans in the post-Ferguson era"

We just have differing opinions. I'm worried about the club I support being in the hands of the wrong manager and the damage it not only can do, but has already done.


There's a list as long as my arm as to why he should have been sacked already and as far as I, and I would argue the majority of United fans, are concerned; taking a stance of continually making excuses for all his failings, having faith in him based on absolutely zero evidence that he is the right man and constantly going against all logic would be much more interesting to a psychologist than someone who is naturally adjusting to supporting a team that has gone from being at the top of the English game right down to midtable and out of all Cup competitions via some absolutely atrocious football and horrendous tactics.

 

[Adebesi]

taking a stance of continually making excuses for all his failings, having faith in him based on absolutely zero evidence that he is the right man and constantly going against all logic would be much more interesting to a psychologist than someone who is naturally adjusting to supporting a team that has gone from being at the top of the English game right down to midtable and out of all Cup competitions via some absolutely atrocious football and horrendous tactics.

They'd both have a place in the study to be fair. Just different chapters.

 

[Gannicus]

Let's try to be sober about this for a moment.

Surely no one the caf denies that Moyes was not the best available manager for the job.

Surely no one on the caf denies that Moyes has had serious difficulties with numerous aspects of the job, whether in the transfer market, earning the respect of his players, match day tactics and how he projects himself in public.

Surely no one here denies there are several, perhaps more than several, better managers available this summer.

In short, knowing what we know now, there would be no case whatsoever for hiring Moyes in June 2013.

The issue before us is whether Moyes has learned enough from his mistakes this season to perform at the level required of a proper United manager next season and thus rightly be spared the sack.

I see no evidence that he has, but I'm open to seeing the evidence Moyes's defenders may wish to present us.