Exactly where I am at the moment about Moyes. And the reason why I want him out ASAP.
What will it take to sack moyes?
- Thread starter bosnian_red
- Start date
He seemed less sure about his future in the job yesterday, I think he knows that CL qualification was a must & is now just hoping the club are generous enough to give him another go at it.
Moyes was asked whether he believed his job might be in some doubt, after his failure to get into the Champions League.
"That is not a question for me, as my job is just to get on and do the job," he insisted.
Moyes was asked whether he believed his job might be in some doubt, after his failure to get into the Champions League.
"That is not a question for me, as my job is just to get on and do the job," he insisted.
Bayern didnt have any clear issues to address though, they were a perfect team.
Whats to say Moyes wont have a season like Rodgers is having this year? Rodgers finished 7th was it Last season?
And nobody is expecting Moyes for league title in his first season. Since you're arguing Moyes is good enough for United, is he good enough for Chelsea?
Bayern did have problems when they hired Klinsmann a few years ago although squad stability was and still is their forte. Their supporters were so angry at him that banners and chants saying "Klinsmann raus" were very present in the Allianz.
If I go by your logic, perhaps Chelsea should have kept AVB for one full year or more to see how it unfolds since he was replacing a living monument (not for Chelsea, but for football in a broader sense) in the person of Carlo Ancelotti.
I understand completely what your saying, the difference is that Pep has his experience go fall back on, he has walked the walked and he just oozes confidence. In return the players will feed off that and believe in his ability to win things.
Moyes on the other hand just stinks of defeatism, blames everything and anything, he uses negative words constantly and is more afraid of losing than the possibility of winning. Negativity breads.
Difference is that Rodgers showed signs that he had something going. Moyes has shown feck all.
The same could be said of any failing manager. In truth the number of times a manager takes a team from 7th to title challenges is far outweighed by the number of times they go from 7th to 7th the following year.
Correct Rob, last season Rodgers improved his side's previous Premier League finish by 5 points, that improvement has carried on into this season.
Not that hes not good enough but he wouldnt have bene given the chance. Without a shadow of a doubt he would have been sacked by now at ours, and I do like the guy. Maybe it will prove he is the wrong man, but you can only make that judgement at this time next season.
You could not expect Moyes to improve upon the previous season though surely? You cant judge Kenny Dalglish to Rodgers to SAF to Moyes, you have to judge Moyes next season on Moyes this season to see whether he can improve. If he doesnt I would agree he isnt the man for the job.
Fills you full of confidence that it will only be one year, doesn't it.
Oh feck me, I know some posters hate us "over-analysing" everything Moyes says but the guy really is a loser, no wonder Everton fans grew so bored of him.
"Hopefully"...
Rodgers didn't take over the champions. Moyes had 11 years to prove himself in the PL. He didn't even come close to win something whereas teams like Birmingham and Wigan have done it. Great players will only win you some points with good individual performances, as shown with Rooney/RvP/Mata this season, but without a competent manager even 11 world class players won't win you titles. Moyes hasn't even shown against poor opposition that he has a clear attacking plan, let alone against half decent opposition. Even against Newcastle in the first 20 mins we looked absolutely clueless, only after Mata scored the free-kick we started to realise that we are actually playing football.
If anyone thinks our performance was good against Bayern, they should really take the time out of the PL / English game a bit and watch the Barcelona - Atletico game instead. Or any Atletico games this season. Or even the Dortmund -Madrid game from this week where Dortmund had half their team missing and almost kicked out Madrid.
Atletico don't have 11 world class players, but they always have a clear game plan, their manager inspires confidence, he makes his players feel special and he has the courage to act, and not always only to re-act. Moyes doesn't have any of these abilities. Atletico didn't even need to score yesterday, still they scored and created chances throughout the game. If they had lost they could have said "proud of the performance", not us with our 2 chances in each game. The standards set by Moyes are scarily low. Therefore it's no surprise at all that an Atletico with a top class manager is leading La Liga with a far inferior squad to Madrid's and Barca's and are in the CL semis and only lost to RM in the Copa, whereas one of the best and proven PL squads under a mid table manager is 7th in the PL and out of every cup.
But I can judge Jose Mourinho to Avram Grant.
Avram took over in Septemeber, with no summer preparation period and steered the club to the same finish as Jose had done the previous season, even managing to take the team to their first CL final, a final they lost by one slip and a lick of paint.
Bullshit I can't judge a manager from one to the next, it doesn't matter who the name is.
Rodgers improved his side in his first season, that table doesn't lie, and that suggested that he would continue to improve which has happened, Moyes on the other hand...
I know. Did this guy ever attend a seminar on how to deal with the media while making sure that his message doesn't transpire weaknesses?
In the same position they finished the previous season. THe comparison would have been correct if ROdgers finished thirteen last season (6 position below the previous one).
The other important thing that you and Brwned are missing on Rodgers/Moyes comparison is that Liverpool was a far better team on May of 2013 than on the previous May. United is a far worse team than it was 12 months ago. The team under Rodgers progressed, under Moyes regressed.
That is why it is extremely unlikely that Moyes will have a season like Rodgers next season (and I am not even taking in argument that Rodgers is a far better manager and has a far better playing style).
Do we think that 'rumour' about there being a clause in his contract that allows him to be sacked if he doesn't finish in the top 4 has any shred of truth to it?
Our players were responsible for that though, its like Drogba said in his recent interview for his life story, when AVB was sacked RDM basically said this Chelsea team can manage itself.
I thought that was coming.
The players couldn't manage themselves under AVB though eh? Because AVB changed too much
Do you only judge manager after two seasons in charge?
If Benitez was fail in his less than a season in charge, would you be still chanting his name, like you did at the end of his tenure?
I am one of few who believe that clause must exist, it's the only reason I could see for a club/business our size to hand out a 6 year contract. Whether or not we'll choose to act on that though remains to be seen.
That's pretty ballsey.
That's the problem. IF we had Jose for example I fully expect us to win the title, or to be in the race like Chelsea are at the moment.
When you hire a mediocre manager of course expectations will be lower...
I checked again, he even said this:
"Ich muss in der Lage sein, dieses Triple zu holen. Ich akzeptiere das"
I have to be able to win the treble. I accept this.
And I hope it will be with another manager
I'd be surprised if there aren't performance targets built into it, as there would be in any senior, highly remunerated contract in almost any field. Much like the Suarez release clause though I suspect it may not be black and white.
No, I dont. I dont think anyone could have contemplated this scenario to put the clause in.
I thought that rumour was made up by posters on this site in a desperate hope that it would give us a get out clause to sack Moyes at the end of the season.
Is there one shred of evidence to suggest that such a clause exists? I doubt it.
Deary me, that's a scary thought. Judging Moyes on his ability to improve on an absolutely disastrous season is exactly what we shouldn't be doing.
I've noticed some are dividing the Moyes-out camp into those who want him out regardless of who replaces him and those who want him out and replacing him with a proven manager / someone young with a clear positive footballing philosophy and charisma...
FWIW I think pretty much everyone in the Moyes-out camp fall into the latter group. I don't want Moyes out just to be replaced by Glenn Roeder.
I refuse to believe that United cannot convince a top class manager to take over. We could have last summer and should be able to even more now that the sting from the SAF factor has been shrunk. If the reported figures available for a rebuild are true, it's even more likely that we can acquire a manager of the level we feel should guide us through the next few seasons.
FWIW I think pretty much everyone in the Moyes-out camp fall into the latter group. I don't want Moyes out just to be replaced by Glenn Roeder.
I refuse to believe that United cannot convince a top class manager to take over. We could have last summer and should be able to even more now that the sting from the SAF factor has been shrunk. If the reported figures available for a rebuild are true, it's even more likely that we can acquire a manager of the level we feel should guide us through the next few seasons.
I imagine we'll only find out at the end of the season, we can still mathematically come in the top 4, by the stage we can't there will only be 3-4 games left.
Would seem pointless sacking him with a handful of games left if there were such a clause.
You would have to think the glazers protected themselves in that 6 years contract in some way wouldn't you.
I'm surprised at you. I'm a long way from certain that he's the right man for the job but your bracketed comments are fairly petty. We've been thumped by City and Liverpool and of course that's unacceptable but we've played some decent football against Villa, Newcastle, West Ham and Olympiacos, shown signs of an actual plan and ran the best team in the world close in the CL quarter-finals. I'd expect a bit more balance from you.
Big Sam might be available...
Why else can some of you say with absolute certainty that Moyes will be here?Yeah they're my best mates. We hang out all the time
Only with DM at helm would 4 wins, 1 draw and 3 losses would be considered progress...
If you expect to lose every game (although from this season it's not that far off) then you may be right - progress.
It shows how far Moyes has managed to lower our expectations that we're regarding beating a few teams involved in a relegation battle as something to be celebrated rather than something which we ought to be just do with our eyes closed.
It used to be a surprised when we lost. Now it's not. That is enough for him to leave. Right now.
It used to be a surprised when we lost. Now it's not. That is enough for him to leave. Right now.
Did you read the post? Progress necessarily means comparison. I'm not comparing with last season but with 6 weeks ago, 12 weeks ago, with what we've watched this season. This place is really pissing me off at the moment.
Again, I'm pretty sure Moyes is not the man for the job but if we're all just going to stand around in circles saying the same thing to each other over and over, it renders the forum pretty pointless.
Do we foresee the board sounding out any potential Moyes successor from here 'til the end of the season? Because that's the only scenario I see Moyes actually getting the boot, if the club have a new manager lined up already. There is hardly an abundance of quality managers available this coming summer, is there?
Unless a manager is unhappy at their club, they probably won't be willing to talk till after the season anyway, particularly if Moyes is still in the post. Van Gaal probably being the only exception, but he'll have a World Cup to worry about first. But it's a hell of a lot easier to get a long term manager in the summer than it is mid-season.
We've played decent football against them because they all share one thing in common. They are all shite. We've seen these type of results throughout the season where we go and put in a convincing football performance against a rubbish team that gives us the space we want on the pitch and makes defensive blunders e.g. Bayer Leverkusen. When a good attacking team actually goes out there and presses us and suffocates our midfield, we see what happens. We have no response, cowering into our shells and get pinned back and can't control the game or get the ball forward at all. Until we put in the convincing performances against good teams, the word progress has no meaning for us.
I haven't compared to last season or something else. Out of the list, we played shit in 2 of the games, Benteke had 2 clear cut chances at 2-1 in that Villa game, Olympiacos missed a great chance at 1-0 free shot at around 5 yards, parked the bus against Bayern at home, and we were beaten rather soundly last night.
We beat Newcastle and WH both teams that didn't play that well either.
The biggest positive and progress is Kagawa and Mata playing together. But that was rather out of necessity rather than Moyes taking part. RvP will be fit soon and Kagawa possibly won't feature.
Apart from resultwise I don't see that much of a progress. The bar was set so low after new year that anything seems progress.
IMO we could have good chance of recruiting Frank de Boer from Ajax.