What will it take to sack moyes?

Raoul said:
I'm pretty confident Moyes will be our manager for a long time.
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That all rides on how well he does next season. Continue to perform abysmally in the league next season after presumably spending a substantial amount on players, and he'll be gone by December. Make top 4 and improve our style of play then he'll probably be allowed to stay on another season.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
I wouldn't say a long time, he probably has less than a year remaining in which to get it right, otherwise he's gone.
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We don't know what get it right means at this point. If we finish in the top 4 next year, it will be seen as an improvement. Obviously, being one match away from getting us to the CL semis won't help the cause of sacking him this year. Nor will a strong league finish, even if we don't make the CL.
 
Raoul said:
We don't know what get it right means at this point. If we finish in the top 4 next year, it will be seen as an improvement. Obviously, being one match away from getting us to the CL semis won't help the cause of sacking him this year. Nor will a strong league finish, even if we don't make the CL.
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Journalists have reported that a title challenge will be expected next season with the money to be spent in the summer.
 
itso 7 said:
I think an over reliance of Sir Alex's judgement and what happened twenty five years ago is trap that could turn out to be our undoing in the long run . It is important for them to note that Sir Alex came here as a winner and it is the club that had to catch up to his standards and mentality . Here we are hoping that a fifty year old trophyless manager will suddenly abandon his cautious nature and grow into the role by developing the requisite traits that aren't inherent in him .

I don't think the Glazers will sorely take advice from Fergie when contemplating the next move, especially with their boy Woodward having spent time in football fora recently . These are highly intelligent men who will not sanction a £200m outlay on Fergie and Charlton's say so . Following Fergie's prescribed remedy that time will turn Moyes into a top manager is a level of stupidity I'd like to believe is beyond a self made billionaire like Malcom Glazer .
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If i had to say i also don't actually think they would give him years like Ferguson had, by this i mean the glazers its possible some on the board buy into all that romantic shit.

Another interesting thing to think about Fergusons early years is this, he came good just as the money started flowing into football and we were in a position to take advantage of. Had the premier league and TV money happened just 4-5 years earlier we might have got left behind and 20+ years of glory might never have happened.

With 2 sugar daddies currently in the premier league and the continued potential for more to join the billionaire pissing contest coupled with the sharp rise in champions league income for clubs from next year, its easy to fear a similar point where we could get left behind financially and find it hard to get back to the top table of football.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
Journalists have reported that a title challenge will be expected next season with the money to be spent in the summer.
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A top four finish could easily be interpreted as a title challenge. See Arsenal this year.

Personally, I don't think his job will be at risk unless there's a repeat of last summer and the middle this past Prem season. He seems to slowly be adapting to the squad and they to him, and adding a world class player or two in the summer will likely move us near the top.
 
Raoul said:
A top four finish could easily be interpreted as a title challenge. See Arsenal this year.

Personally, I don't think his job will be at risk unless there's a repeat of last summer and the middle this past Prem season. He seems to slowly be adapting to the squad and they to him, and adding a world class player or two in the summer will likely move us near the top.
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I don't think our board or fans will accept an Arsenal-like return from Moyes, they've nearly gone a decade trophyless.
 
Raoul said:
We don't know what get it right means at this point. If we finish in the top 4 next year, it will be seen as an improvement. Obviously, being one match away from getting us to the CL semis won't help the cause of sacking him this year. Nor will a strong league finish, even if we don't make the CL.
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Do you think us getting to the Quarter Finals of the CL will prove that big a factor in deciding his future either way though. I doubt many people envisaged us not getting past Olympiakos, and even then we some how conspired to almost feck it up.
 
A few weeks ago there seemed to be a fair sized section of people thinking the Glazers might pull the trigger once we are out of the CL, and there is nothing left to play for. Does anyone still feel that is the case, that if we get beaten - perhaps it would have to be resoundingly, or maybe it is just the fact we are out, even if we put up a decent fight - the news could come through tomorrow?
 
stevoc said:
Do you think us getting to the Quarter Finals of the CL will prove that big a factor in deciding his future either way though. I doubt many people envisaged us not getting past Olympiakos, and even then we some how conspired to almost feck it up.
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I think it would be hard to justify sacking a first year manager who potentially gets us very deep into the CL and despite a calamitous few months in the league, gets us playing well again near the end. I doubt that will be sufficient logic to sack him now. I'm fairly confident he will grow into the job next year and we will be right in the thick of the league, CL and FA Cup next year. My main concern with Moyes is that he gets us playing like a team rather than 11 disparate individuals.
 
Raoul said:
A top four finish could easily be interpreted as a title challenge. See Arsenal this year.

Personally, I don't think his job will be at risk unless there's a repeat of last summer and the middle this past Prem season. He seems to slowly be adapting to the squad and they to him, and adding a world class player or two in the summer will likely move us near the top.
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My worry is that for reasons I'll expand on when I have a lot more time, David Moyes is almost certain to do better next season, even if he's not good enough to be United manager.

In a nutshell, he's vastly underachieved & been unlucky this year - so if he slightly underachieves and has a little luck he'll do a lot better. It's easy to mistake regression to the mean for progress, which would keep Moyes in a job for several years.
 
bishblaize said:
My worry is that for reasons I'll expand on when I have a lot more time, David Moyes is almost certain to do better next season, even if he's not good enough to be United manager.

In a nutshell, he's vastly underachieved & been unlucky this year - so if he slightly underachieves and has a little luck he'll do a lot better. It's easy to mistake regression to the mean for progress, which would keep Moyes in a job for several years.
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He's definitely vastly underachieved. That's not in question. What is encouraging is that he seems to have recently stablized on his formations and tactics, and that's resulted in our playing better. I'm more concerned on his ability to learn from his mistakes and adapt, which he seems to finally be making progress on.
 
My main concern remains, will David Moyes ever evolve into an imaginative and modern manager formulating attractive and attacking football? I back him on his decision to bring in his own coaching staff, but perhaps some new faces with new ideas would be desirable.
 
Raoul said:
I think it would be hard to justify sacking a first year manager who potentially gets us very deep into the CL and despite a calamitous few months in the league, gets us playing well again near the end. I doubt that will be sufficient logic to sack him now. I'm fairly confident he will grow into the job next year and we will be right in the thick of the league, CL and FA Cup next year. My main concern with Moyes is that he gets us playing like a team rather than 11 disparate individuals.
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I can see where you're coming from theres a good chance he won't be sacked. But i just feel getting past the greeks and beating a few teams who are already on their Holidays won't come much into their thinking if they were looking for reasons for keeping/sacking him. They most likely already know which way they are leaning one way or the other.

The vast majority of clubs would actually find it hard to justify keeping him on after the season hes had, i have a feeling when it comes down to it we will prove to be not much different in the summer.
 
Adebesi said:
A few weeks ago there seemed to be a fair sized section of people thinking the Glazers might pull the trigger once we are out of the CL, and there is nothing left to play for. Does anyone still feel that is the case, that if we get beaten - perhaps it would have to be resoundingly, or maybe it is just the fact we are out, even if we put up a decent fight - the news could come through tomorrow?
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Not much point sacking him with a few league games to go and having to install an interim. If it happens I imagine it'll be in the week following May 11th.
 
This has been a good Champions League campaign for him and alot better than many expected. He shouldn't take too much abuse for how this tie has gone.
 
The White Pele said:
This has been a good Champions League campaign for him and alot better than many expected. He shouldn't take too much abuse for how this tie has gone.
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I thought that we have played better this CL campaign than we have done for years in it. Take out the Olympiskos away result of course.
He wasn't to blame tonight we were just beaten by a better side.
I'm glad he will stay and prove many wrong.
 
The White Pele said:
This has been a good Champions League campaign for him and alot better than many expected.
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We had a relatively average group and drew the easiest team in the competition first knockout round. The first good team we came up against put us out.

It was by no means a 'good' campaign from him as I'd expect Sam Allardyce to get us out of that group and past Olympiakos.
 
I can't see Jurgen going anywhere. Dortmund have worked very hard to get their finances in order and in the coming years he will only have a larger transfer and wage budget.

Carlo, Jose and Pep are not realistic at this time.

The question now becomes, Diego Simeone...

Will he give it another year especially after Barcelona's transfer ban quite possibly increasing their chances of winning the league next season if they can improve even more. Or will he move to a team in a much better position to win many trophies?
 
An Irish Red said:
We had a relatively average group and drew the easiest team in the competition first knockout round. The first good team we came up against put us out.

It was by no means a 'good' campaign from him as I'd expect Sam Allardyce to get us out of that group and past Olympiakos.
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We've failed to negotiate 'average' groups in the past. Not very often, granted, but still more often than we should have. Yes the first good team did put us out but that team are also the favourites and defending champions and we came very close to beating them over 2 legs.
 
Thank you David Moyes for trying...but you are not the man for the job.

Goodbye
 
An Irish Red said:
We had a relatively average group and drew the easiest team in the competition first knockout round. The first good team we came up against put us out.

It was by no means a 'good' campaign from him as I'd expect Sam Allardyce to get us out of that group and past Olympiakos.
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nah it was a good campaign
 
Dobba said:
Didn't you see that look on his face after we scored that screamed "Oi Patrice, put your feet up son - we're done here" though?
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Lol... Did you forget what Fergie did when Rooney equalised against Barca?

We'd just got the away goal we needed against the best team in the world. I'd be more concerned if he wasn't jumping about...
 
Tibs said:
Thank you David Moyes for trying...but you are not the man for the job.

Goodbye
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Think you will have to put up with the face he makes once we go behind in a match next season as well.
 
bishblaize said:
My worry is that for reasons I'll expand on when I have a lot more time, David Moyes is almost certain to do better next season, even if he's not good enough to be United manager.

In a nutshell, he's vastly underachieved & been unlucky this year - so if he slightly underachieves and has a little luck he'll do a lot better. It's easy to mistake regression to the mean for progress, which would keep Moyes in a job for several years.
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I agree with this. If we finish the season in 6th/7th then him taking us to 4th next year would appear a success. I mean you couldn't sack him after that improvement right? And then who knows, 4th the next season, 3rd the year after that etc. It is unreasonable to expect a manager to win the league but Moyes has set the bar so low this season that continuing failure may appear to be success.
 
I think in the eyes of some people the fact that we didn't get slaughtered by Bayern means we should give him more time and that we are improving. The problem is just that we came from such a low level that improving wasn't all that difficult.

Yet I'm happy that there are at least some signs of improvement
 
The problem with painting this game as a quasi-achievement for Moyes because we played better than most expected is that ..

a) We lost. Fairly comfortably.

and b) Whatever the result or performance, it's was always a last ditch charge of the light brigade to try and rescue the clusterfeck we've made of the season.

Ideally the board would've had a checklist of objectives and being out of contention for the top 4 by March would been cause to terminate his contract at the end of the season. If only losing by 2 goals to Bayern is the biggest positive we can take from Moyes so far, it's a worry.
 
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Mockney said:
The problem with painting this game as a quasi-achievement for Moyes because we played better than most expected is that ..

a) We lost. Fairly comfortably.

and b) Whatever the result or performance, it's was always a last ditching charge of the light brigade to try and rescue the clusterfeck we've made of the season.

Ideally the board would've had a checklist of objectives and being out of contention for the top 4 by March would been cause to terminate his contract at the end of the season. If only losing by 2 goals to Bayern is the biggest positive we can take from Moyes so far, it's a worry.
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That's a bit of a facetious presentation of the situation. The ultimate test for a manager and his grip on his position is whether his team is playing for him and in those two games they certainly were. He did a good job against Bayern, we've had a good couple of weeks in the league. You look for progress and the last month has been progress. Mata and Kagawa prominent, goals, clean sheets. I'm far from certain about Moyes myself but that's not really a fair way to judge where we are at the moment.
 
I think it is 50/50 whether Moyes gets fired at the end of the season. The key factors will be the extent to which our commercial partners are unhappy and the availability of a suitable replacement.
 
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