What will it take to sack moyes?

stevoc said:
I actually agreed with not signing a cabaye or similar instead of a really top midfielder in the summer, but then i have the luxury of always thinking long term as i know ill always be a united fan.

But you have to think no matter how safe he thought/thinks his job is , from Moyes point of view surely a bit of a panic buy of a midfielder who would improve us should have been the way to go for him if not united.

I think it will be a decision he will come to rue our form since January would probably be a lot better with a good CM on board and i think we could have been in contention for top 4, could easily cost him his job here.
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Aye - I take your point there. I do believe that strengthening CM would have made it easier for him to implement whatever system it is he has in mind for us. There's a hole there which needs filling before anything else can possibly fall into place - at least that's what it looks like to me.

Then again, we do not know what assurances Moyes has from the board. It is possible that they're fully on board with a rebuilding plan that may be more comprehensive than we think - whether we agree with such a plan or not.
 
stevoc said:
I actually agreed with not signing a cabaye or similar instead of a really top midfielder in the summer, but then i have the luxury of always thinking long term as i know ill always be a united fan.
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Trouble is you can't isolate the future from the present. Getting in a good midfielder in January could have enabled us to reach the Champions League next season. As it is we're out of it, and its going to be harder to convince good players to join us than if we were in it - or more expensive.

Its also worth noting that with Carrick, Fellaini and Cleverley as our only genuine central midfielders (and Carrick 31 at that) someone like Cabaye would hardly become redundant in the summer.
 
bishblaize said:
Trouble is you can't isolate the future from the present. Getting in a good midfielder in January could have enabled us to reach the Champions League next season. As it is we're out of it, and its going to be harder to convince good players to join us than if we were in it - or more expensive.

Its also worth noting that with Carrick, Fellaini and Cleverley as our only genuine central midfielders (and Carrick 31 at that) someone like Cabaye would hardly become redundant in the summer.
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Yeah you are right there about attracting players without CL, i have to say though when i wasn't too keen on us signing cabaye in january, i was still pretty positive we would pick up our form and come 3rd-4th.

Didn't foresee the horror that would play out since January. I was still pretty positive about United this season back then

At the time i looked at Carrick, Feilaini & Fletcher as certain to stay with cleverley and anderson leaving, had we signed cabaye that would have been 6 CM's, i thought we needed 2 CM's and still do, but if we signed cabaye i couldn't see us selling 3 midfielders, so it would limit how many we could buy in the summer.
 
stevoc said:
Yeah you are right there about attracting players without CL, i have to say though when i wasn't too keen on us signing cabaye in january, i was still pretty positive we would pick up our form and come 3rd-4th.

Didn't foresee the horror that would play out since January. I was still pretty positive about United this season back then

At the time i looked at Carrick, Feilaini & Fletcher as certain to stay with cleverley and anderson leaving, had we signed cabaye that would have been 6 CM's, i thought we needed 2 CM's and still do, but if we signed cabaye i couldn't see us selling 3 midfielders, so it would limit how many we could buy in the summer.
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Oh yeah forgot about Fletch (sorry Darren).
 
bishblaize said:
Oh yeah forgot about Fletch (sorry Darren).
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Sadly i don't think Fletcher is the right level of player for us anymore, but i can't see the club cutting him loose after his troubles nor should they, most likely let his contract run down.
 
stevoc said:
Sadly i don't think Fletcher is the right level of player for us anymore, but i can't see the club cutting him loose after his troubles nor should they, most likely let his contract run down.
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Sad really. Hard to remember, but in 08-09 he was first on the team sheet along with Ronaldo. United fans were gutted when he got ruled out of the final, and "if only we'd had Fletch" was a common refrain after we lost.

But yeah, agreed.
 
Ironically Moyes/Everton was eyeing Fletcher before he [Moyes] joined Utd

He served us well but we should get rid now
 
redtilldead123 said:
Ironically Moyes/Everton was eyeing Fletcher before he [Moyes] joined Utd

He served us well but we should get rid now
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Sadly Moyes will shy away from the big calls that would need to be made . I'm sure next season we will still have the Rooney- Mata-Van Persie dilemna and the players that will be moved on are those that are fed up not the ones that we need to ship out . Call me crazy but I believe if Moyes is asked to pick between Kagawa and Young it will be Young 10/10, this makes him wrong for us imo.
 
So on this annual day of fools, as was fabled by a merry jester at the court of Old Trafford, will David of Moyes prove himself to indeed be the biggest fool in the county of Manchester. What a festive night it should prove to be!
 
I wouldn't want him to get rid of Fletch.
I would be a stick to unfairly beat Moyes with.
There are enough valid ones already.

If we get something out of this game, Moyes will definately be here next season. (IMO)
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
So on this annual day of fools, as was fabled by a merry jester at the court of Old Trafford, will David of Moyes prove himself to indeed be the biggest fool in the county of Manchester. What a festive night it should prove to be!
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Imagine all the headlines after we lose today... Probably so many jokingly saying moyes is gone, getting our hopes up:mad:
 
bishblaize said:
Playing poor opposition hasn't made us look good any other time this season....
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Actually it has, just last weekend. And the Palace game too.

In fact our entire season has seen us do alright against absolute tosh. But to be fair, even in the second half against the Greeks we looked woeful.
 
A1X said:
So what will it take for it to happen tonight? 6-0? More?
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I doubt anything will happen until after the second leg at the earliest, but most likely at the end of the season if it happens.
 
A1X said:
So what will it take for it to happen tonight? 6-0? More?
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I don't see these Bayern games having much effect, as nobody expects us to get anything from the tie. In that respect, it was a very good draw for Moyes. If we had been thrashed by Dortmund, PSG or Atletico, he might have been in trouble.
 
Tyrion Lannister said:
Actually it has, just last weekend. And the Palace game too.

In fact our entire season has seen us do alright against absolute tosh. But to be fair, even in the second half against the Greeks we looked woeful.
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You thought we looked good?
 
I don't want to jinx anything, but I had a dream the other night that Moyes had been sacked and replaced by Nigel Clough.
 
A1X said:
A reverse tomorrow night might well be enough
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There's no way. Most are already expecting to lose, so barring a historic and humiliating 10-0 thrashing, I don't see it effecting Moyes' job security. He may well have been close to the brink after the Liverpool game, but the Olympiakos 2nd leg has probably saved him (that, and the ludicrous plane stunt that utterly backfired). He is going to be here for a long, long time.
 
Infra-red said:
There's no way. Most are already expecting to lose, so barring a historic and humiliating 10-0 thrashing, I don't see it effecting Moyes' job security. He may well have been close to the brink after the Liverpool game, but the Olympiakos 2nd leg has probably saved him (that, and the ludicrous plane stunt that utterly backfired). He is going to be here for a long, long time.
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As if I wasn't in a bad enough mood at Chelsea scoring.
 
Infra-red said:
There's no way. Most are already expecting to lose, so barring a historic and humiliating 10-0 thrashing, I don't see it effecting Moyes' job security. He may well have been close to the brink after the Liverpool game, but the Olympiakos 2nd leg has probably saved him (that, and the ludicrous plane stunt that utterly backfired). He is going to be here for a long, long time.
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Avram is that you?
 
I think we're at a stage where he will be given another season to turn it around. It sounds as though we're far down the summer planning, which means the club are not considering sacking him. Honestly, I don't see how a defeat to the best team in Europe will get him sacked.
 
Barring an utter disaster, tomorrow's result won't get him sacked.

Bayern are a much better side, and should win. Little to no pressure on the team - which should help.
 
Moyes can sleep in at the hotel room, miss the game, we lose 5-0 and he'll still have a job.
 
JustAFan said:
At this point, he is here until at least the end of the season. No managerial change will be made before that.
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Yeah. Still think there's a very good chance he's getting kicked at the end of it.
 
PlayerOne said:
It sounds as though we're far down the summer planning, which means the club are not considering sacking him.
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This bit intrigued me. Do you think Norwich have now had their entire summer thrown into turmoil because they've sacked Hughton?

Obviously different in terms of size but I'd be frankly stunned if Moyes is playing such a major, pivotal role in our summer transfer planning. Woodward? Yes. Gill? Almost certainly. Ferguson? Maybe. Moyes? Hmm.
 
A1X said:
This bit intrigued me. Do you think Norwich have now had their entire summer thrown into turmoil because they've sacked Hughton?

Obviously different in terms of size but I'd be frankly stunned if Moyes is playing such a major, pivotal role in our summer transfer planning. Woodward? Yes. Gill? Almost certainly. Ferguson? Maybe. Moyes? Hmm.
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Norwich don't compare at all. Signing top players takes a long time, a few months in some cases, while signing lesser players could be done very quickly. Yes, Moyes is very involved I would say. He seems to be doing a lot of the scouting himself and he has hinted that he has talked to players agents.

One things for sure, if we were to bring someone else in then we would have to let them know by now, so they can start planning for next season. That's why I don't think it's happening and that Moyes will be given another season, no matter what.
 
PlayerOne said:
That's why I don't think it's happening and that Moyes will be given another season, no matter what.
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I disagree. If it becomes obvious (as would seem likely) that qualification for the Champions League is again something he simply cannot provide then he will be gone. And if her produces more performances against City, Liverpool and Chelsea like he did this season then he'll be gone even sooner. The Glazers might be many things but they aren't mugs, they'll know he's damaging "the brand".
 
A1X said:
I disagree. If it becomes obvious (as would seem likely) that qualification for the Champions League is again something he simply cannot provide then he will be gone. And if her produces more performances against City, Liverpool and Chelsea like he did this season then he'll be gone even sooner. The Glazers might be many things but they aren't mugs, they'll know he's damaging "the brand".
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I should've made it more clear, I don't think we'll be given a full season if we're not doing well. I would say it will be looked at in December. Also, don't the Glazers always give the coaches at Buccaneers two years? So they share SAF/Charlton's view on giving managers time it seems.
 
PlayerOne said:
I should've made it more clear, I don't think we'll be given a full season if we're not doing well. I would say it will be looked at in December. Also, don't the Glazers always give the coaches at Buccaneers two years? So they share SAF/Charlton's view on giving managers time it seems.
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I don't know about how the Buccaneers work as I don't really care about American Football, so can't really comment. But I would say that doing something in one sport doesn't mean it'll work in another.
 
PlayerOne said:
Norwich don't compare at all. Signing top players takes a long time, a few months in some cases, while signing lesser players could be done very quickly. Yes, Moyes is very involved I would say. He seems to be doing a lot of the scouting himself and he has hinted that he has talked to players agents.

One things for sure, if we were to bring someone else in then we would have to let them know by now, so they can start planning for next season. That's why I don't think it's happening and that Moyes will be given another season, no matter what.
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Not so sure about this. We knew Moyes was taking over this time last year (ish?), who didn't seem to have planned for anything by the time he got here other than bringing Baines and Fellaini along with him. Reportedly dallied over Thiago too (although I think Bayern were always in pole to get him), and the Fabregas chase didn't start till we were on tour, from memory. Obviously you could say that we would've learned from our mistakes, but I'm not sure it's even realistic to be talking to managers of other clubs, quite possibly still in competitions, about taking over and who they'd want to sign. It would all happen after the season had ended, unless the manager was free.
 
A1X said:
I disagree. If it becomes obvious (as would seem likely) that qualification for the Champions League is again something he simply cannot provide then he will be gone. And if her produces more performances against City, Liverpool and Chelsea like he did this season then he'll be gone even sooner. The Glazers might be many things but they aren't mugs, they'll know he's damaging "the brand".
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I generally agree with that assessment. However it's also possible that a 7th place finish this season, followed up by a 5th place finish next year (with a more concerted challenge for 4th), could be viewed as an improvement, especially given the mitigating factors likely to arise from a summer of huge squad upheaval. That sign of progress would perhaps be justification for yet a third season, and on and on we go...
 
Infra-red said:
I generally agree with that assessment. However it's also possible that a 7th place finish this season, followed up by a 5th place finish next year (with a more concerted challenge for 4th), could be viewed as an improvement, especially given the mitigating factors likely to arise from a summer of huge squad upheaval. That sign of progress would perhaps be justification for yet a third season, and on and on we go...
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I highly doubt that a club of our stature would lie down and accept such mediocrity longterm. Even if SAF for some bizarre reason did, the Galzers would simply overrule him.
 
A1X said:
I don't know about how the Buccaneers work as I don't really care about American Football, so can't really comment. But I would say that doing something in one sport doesn't mean it'll work in another.
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It matters in this case because it's the same owners. From what I have read, Buccaneers have hired some average coaches but they have given them a chance, so I don't see that changing.

Ubik said:
Not so sure about this. We knew Moyes was taking over this time last year (ish?), who didn't seem to have planned for anything by the time he got here other than bringing Baines and Fellaini along with him. Reportedly dallied over Thiago too (although I think Bayern were always in pole to get him), and the Fabregas chase didn't start till we were on tour, from memory. Obviously you could say that we would've learned from our mistakes, but I'm not sure it's even realistic to be talking to managers of other clubs, quite possibly still in competitions, about taking over and who they'd want to sign. It would all happen after the season had ended, unless the manager was free.
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van Gaal seems to be one of top managers we could bring in and he doesn't have a club, so we could've had talks with him if we wanted to. A paper recently reported that Moyes has taken on more work so what happened last summer doesn't repeat and I think the club learned it's lesson in bringing someone in without giving them enough time to plan the summer transfers.
 
Shark22 said:
I highly doubt that a club of our stature would lie down and accept such mediocrity longterm. Even if SAF for some bizarre reason did, the Galzers would simply overrule him.
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Woodward: We can win nothing and still sell shirts - just look at Liverpool
The Manchester United executive vice-chairman believes the club's stature won't be hit if they don't win anything, citing Liverpool as a model example.

"Take Liverpool. They still sell an incredible number of shirts and have the second biggest shirt deal in the Premier League."

"They have one of the biggest technical partner deals - and they haven't won the league since 1990. And you can put the last bit underlined and in capitals."

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ews/ed-woodward-manchester-united-can-6373895
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I agree that the 'if he isn't doing much better by Christmas he's out' scenario is more likely, but it's entirely possible we could be looking at years here.
 
Shark22 said:
I highly doubt that a club of our stature would lie down and accept such mediocrity longterm. Even if SAF for some bizarre reason did, the Galzers would simply overrule him.
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Going from what the club have leaked to the press and what Moyes has said, I think it's safe to say that only a real challenge for the league would keep him here.
 
PlayerOne said:
It matters in this case because it's the same owners. From what I have read, Buccaneers have hired some average coaches but they have given them a chance, so I don't see that changing.

van Gaal seems to be one of top managers we could bring in and he doesn't have a club, so we could've had talks with him if we wanted to. A paper recently reported that Moyes has taken on more work so what happened last summer doesn't repeat and I think the club learned it's lesson in bringing someone in without giving them enough time to plan the summer transfers.
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He's a possibility, but I doubt we'd be making final decisions without knowing exactly who's available. Moyes had plenty of time to sort out transfers to be honest, we just messed about.

On the Tampa Bay point, we're a completely different scenario with champions league revenue/sponsorships brought into the equation. Not really comparable.
 
I think he has basically cashed in on the summer transfer market. That is what he has to prove himself. I don't think he'll have the whole season, he'll need to spend, as he has spouted nonsense- as has the media- that this team needs drastic amendments and rebuilding from everywhere. Once he has spent a sizable amount and brought in his 'own team' and embedded 'his own tactics' (which he should've already done) then he will be truly be critically assessed. If he spends big and we still under perform, I think the most important thing will be that he will lose the support of the fans within the stadium. We can talk about how poor he's been and how we've all wanted him gone but the Old Trafford faithful have remained just that. If they start an uproar, I can't see the Glazers keeping him. And I think, again, going back to the transfer window, if we do spend big and he brings in 'what he wants', the expectations from the fans will be higher. If he continues to fail to deliver, he will be gone. In such a scenario I predict December-early January.
 
Ubik said:
He's a possibility, but I doubt we'd be making final decisions without knowing exactly who's available. Moyes had plenty of time to sort out transfers to be honest, we just messed about.

On the Tampa Bay point, we're a completely different scenario with champions league revenue/sponsorships brought into the equation. Not really comparable.
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I honestly don't see Moyes being sacked this year, it would surprise me if he was. One other thing he has going for him is the lack of top managers that are available right now, so it might force the club to give him another year and let him rebuild the squad. Even if it doesn't work out then the new manager will have a better squad and less pressure to work under.
 
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