Moyes has truly turned United into a circus.
What will it take to sack moyes?
- Thread starter bosnian_red
- Start date
I don't understand why that review isn't being done NOW, can he do anything between now and the end of the season to change our opinion (except the miracle of winning the CL)?
He should be dismissed now and we can begin our search for a manager worthy of United.
Article in the Indie that has a few interesting snippets - http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...nchester-united-is-safe--for-now-9217806.html
There was something in it earlier that seems to have been edited out since, about the potential rationale behind keeping Moyes to the end of the season - essentially citing the Dalglish case at Liverpool, where the interim choice had to be made permanent because the fans loved it so much, and given that our option would be Giggs with others from the class of '92, a similar thing might occur (and risk another year outside the champions league). The conclusion being, may as well hang on to Moyes till the end of the season as we can't get any worse, and we're so far behind that there's not much to gain either. Massive spaculation which was probably why it was cut, but there you have it.
When fergie retired, there was mention that the glazers wanted to have his successor announced quickly. Maybe if we sack moyes, they want to announce the new man almost immediately as well and thats not possible right now ( someone like klopp is still in the CL league with dortmund for example).
The Glazers would be out of their minds if they decided to keep Moyes for another season. Let's be patient for another month before he's sacked, during which time a suitable replacement for Moyes may be secured. Be patient.
Me thinks you're clutching at straws, Sir Alex is the most stubborn man alive, and Bobby doesn't exactly do Mourinho esq speeches with thinly veiled hidden agenda's now does he, when Sir Bobby says hes convinced he's the right man, then thats surely the reality of his thinking.
The Glazers? well we still don't know how hand's on the'll be in this type of situation, from what we've seen they'll delegate the decision to their cronies, and respected Fergie and Charlton co. may well have the ear of, the most likely scenario for me is still the ships going down with the captain.
My doubts about our ability to pick a good manager after Moyes are probably as big as my doubts about Moyes becoming a success here eventually. There is no guarantee that the joke of a hiring process that occurred the first time around won't occur again. God knows who we'll end up with. I feel like SBC and SAF would really like to have a British manager and there aren't many good British managers around right now, is there?
I just think they will do it formally and professionally.
He will be asked to report on how the season has gone (it's a car crash) explain why it's gone that way, and effectively hang himself with his explanation.
Seriously, you guys need to get in your head that he isn't going anywhere. If the club has any intention to getting rid of him, they would be doing it now rather than the end of the season, in order to give the replacement ample time to asses squad and attack the transfer window. The fact he is still here after a disasterous campaign shows how much the board/club are behind him.
Save your PayPal donations for that pathetic fly by banner tonight and get behing him. If the players thought that he had the fans support, maybe they would pull their fingers out!
We are currently 7th in the league which, for me, reflects the current ability of our squad. We overachieved last season as we were managed by an absolute freak of a manager who could polish a turd to royal standards. The step down in performance was inevitable.
Our defence and midfield are woeful - we all acknowledge that - yet think a new manager would be able to get them firing on all cylinders like SAF? No chance in hell. I honestly doubt Jopp and co would have done much better. Yes, we may have been more competitive in the big games but I doubt we would be top 4.
Full backs - have been gash all season. Evra has looked on the decline for a few seasons. Rafael blows hot and cold - very risky and petulant on the pitch.
CM - Carrick goes missing in big games and struggles to control games, even against weaker opposition. Cleverley - not point even mentioning him. Fellaini - since returning from injury has shown glimpses of been a better player than the rest of the CM's we have. Fletcher - still a long way from being class.
CB - We need to strengthen here, without a doubt. We haven't been able to field a decent combo all season due to injuries the our better ones. Evans and Jones maybe the future but how often have Moyes been able to pair them up? Rio and Vidic are both past it and clearly have their mind elsewhere.
What other team in the league would be able to manage with the problems above and make top 4 - regardless of how good the attacking options are.
Moyes WILL address these areas, i'm sure of it, and the rumours coming out of the club all point towards it. He knows he needs to buy big and will do so. The club will back him as it's so obvious heavy investment in required to be cometitive next season.
Have some faith. There are a lot of people at the club, paid an awful lot of money, to ensure that we remain in the title fight.
I await the anti Moyes backlash....
Save your PayPal donations for that pathetic fly by banner tonight and get behing him. If the players thought that he had the fans support, maybe they would pull their fingers out!
We are currently 7th in the league which, for me, reflects the current ability of our squad. We overachieved last season as we were managed by an absolute freak of a manager who could polish a turd to royal standards. The step down in performance was inevitable.
Our defence and midfield are woeful - we all acknowledge that - yet think a new manager would be able to get them firing on all cylinders like SAF? No chance in hell. I honestly doubt Jopp and co would have done much better. Yes, we may have been more competitive in the big games but I doubt we would be top 4.
Full backs - have been gash all season. Evra has looked on the decline for a few seasons. Rafael blows hot and cold - very risky and petulant on the pitch.
CM - Carrick goes missing in big games and struggles to control games, even against weaker opposition. Cleverley - not point even mentioning him. Fellaini - since returning from injury has shown glimpses of been a better player than the rest of the CM's we have. Fletcher - still a long way from being class.
CB - We need to strengthen here, without a doubt. We haven't been able to field a decent combo all season due to injuries the our better ones. Evans and Jones maybe the future but how often have Moyes been able to pair them up? Rio and Vidic are both past it and clearly have their mind elsewhere.
What other team in the league would be able to manage with the problems above and make top 4 - regardless of how good the attacking options are.
Moyes WILL address these areas, i'm sure of it, and the rumours coming out of the club all point towards it. He knows he needs to buy big and will do so. The club will back him as it's so obvious heavy investment in required to be cometitive next season.
Have some faith. There are a lot of people at the club, paid an awful lot of money, to ensure that we remain in the title fight.
I await the anti Moyes backlash....
He hasn't had the fans support? You must be kidding me. Tell me you are trolling?
Everyone backed him, but he hasn't helped himself. Any other club he would be booed out and crowd would be chanting Moyes out.
You telling me Moyes couldn't assess a team who he played countless time over the last few years? You telling me he couldn't find a better midfielder than Fellaini?
Everyone backed him, but he hasn't helped himself. Any other club he would be booed out and crowd would be chanting Moyes out.
You telling me Moyes couldn't assess a team who he played countless time over the last few years? You telling me he couldn't find a better midfielder than Fellaini?
I agree with everything you say @soapythecat. But the trouble is Moyes has no idea what he's doing. His tactics are up his arse. We may be 7th in terms of ability but we've been comprehensively beaten by City and Liverpool twice and Chelsea once. The 7th place team should be at least able to put up a fight against teams in the top 4.
Mate, i'm not saying he hasn't had the fans support, but as that looks on the wane, I was indicating maybe we should not go against him and get behind him. Our match going fans have been world class in all of this and are giving the club some credability in a shower of a season.
We should be proud that he hasn't had the booing or the Moyes out chants. The club will decide regardless of fans opinion as they are a money machine and that is all they are concerned about.
Fellaini - maybe he was the only decent midfielder available, that wanted to come to United. Just a though.
I'm trying to remain positive, yeah?
WUM.
Look what Moyes has done to you, you poor poor lamb.
Only City unequivocally have a better squad than us in the league. Chelsea probably do too but that is arguable. Liverpool and Arsenal? No chance! Spurs and Everton can only dream of having players like Mata, Rooney and Van Persie................and they do!
Look at Chelsea in recent seasons, well of the pace, finishing outside the CL place recently with much the same squad. Look at Liverpool FFS, players like Henderson and Allen reborn this season, they finished 7th last year!!
What is the difference at these clubs this year? They both have managers who are getting the best out of their players. Managers who are getting their players to play beyond their perceived capabilities, we used to have a manager like that you know!
Now we have David Moyes.
Try and give your paragraphs more spacing mate. It is easier to read then.
In regards to your post, I understand what you are getting at. The problem is that at the end of the day this was a championship winning squad last season. The decline has been remarkable. Players would have responded more to a Mourinho for example and we definitely would be challenging for the title if Mourinho was in charge, i have no doubt about that.
Yes, we do need investment. The question is, do i want the board to back Moyes with 200m to re-do the whole squad? Im not so sure. It could end up another Dalgleish scenario where he spends 50 million on a player like Carrol and we are stuck with trying to get rid of the player for the next 3 years or so. Man City spent hundreds of millions players that were stuck rotting in the reserves because the managers that brought those players in got sacked. The new manager came in and did not take a fancy to them so now the club was stuck with high-profile players on massive salaries that cost 20-30 million pounds that the club could not get rid of. That would be a disaster.
I can't see Moyes getting sacked. Maybe if we get absolutely battered by Bayern Munich which is a high chance of that happening that the board will think that is enough. I believe he will be given the summer and next season, atleast till christmas to see how the team is doing. After next season, the revenue from champions league is getting much higher due to the new BT sports deal. We really can't afford to miss out on the top 4 again for too many more seasons.
You'll get a backlash for coming out with insulting, incorrect guff like that. I seriously can't believe people like you exist? I'm adamant on this, but Sir Alex Ferguson was actually holding many of our players back, yet we were winning because we were an attacking team that had very good attacking players and an unrelenting will to win. Ferguson was the one who would sacrifice games, a title even, on a bizarre, misplaced trust in legs that just weren't there anymore. Ferguson has overseen a sudden and dramatic rise of injuries that directly coincided with his ghastly rotation policy, one that didn't allow players to maintain great form except for those who did actually play, one that never allowed us to actually perform like a cohesive unit and one that had a variety of players, for different reasons, playing wildly out of form.
I expected an improvement on from the latter years of the Ferguson regime. I think he retired at the right time and I'll go as far as to say that the real Ferguson, in a managerial sense, died that night at the Etihad. I greeted his leaving with some positivity, the same positivity you claim to espouse right now. A bit more modernity, more aggression through the midfield, more possession and a rotation system that wasn't built for the benefit of 3 players. I love Sir Alex, but he wasn't all that relevant anymore in a tactical sense. We won games due to the variety of ways in we which could score a goal, of which has all but vanished under a rigid manager can't replicate the Ferguson genius and madness.
The fact of the matter is that this is not a seventh placed squad. I still firmly believe it to be the second best one in the league. It has a few problems, but so do Chelsea, so Arsenal, so do Liverpool and so do City, believe it or not. The difference being that their managers, particularly Jose and Rodgers, have met their challenges with some answers, not a pathetic, small-time attitude of a monumental loser.
You reel of claims like the defence is "woeful". "We" don't acknowledge that at all. Instead, I see a shit load of talent. Talent that needs harnessed, believed in, regular game time and a midfield that can protect it. Rafael this, Evra that. Jose could have said the same things about Cahill and Terry. Rodgers could have done so with players like Henderson. The midfield could do with a couple of midfielders, hardly an issue if we spend the money, however, the idea that it isn't good enough to play a real system that plays to their strengths is a laughable notion. I've said it so many times, but if Britton, De Guzman and Shelvey can play the possession game then so can our midfielders.
The belief that we buy in these new midfielders, these new defenders, and cleanse ourselves of this season is just nonsense. Moyes is still Moyes, and Steve Round and Phil Neville will still be coaching them on how to win football matches. The "anti-Moyes backlash" is consistent with the nonsense we have to endure. Top coaches are the making of top players. We have many of the latter, just not the former.
Tell me you're trolling, are you seriously claiming that the runaway champions last season, with 65m worth of "talent" added, have a worse squad than Everton and Spurs? 
Maybe he wasn't, maybe if we didn't feck up Herrera's signing things would be a tiny bit better.
Maybe if we signed Matic who was available in the summer things would be better.
Not at all. My opinion was we over achieved last season and there are lot of players in the squad on the decline and it's come to head now. We may of spent 65m on new players but there is nothing to say that was 65m worth of talent. Fellaini has been injured for a large part of the season and Mata is still finding his feet.
We are currently 7th and I don't think this current squad, with the problems I highlighted earlier, are much better than 5th - which is pretty much within our reach this season.
If you seriously think our squad is worse than Arsenal and Liverpool's, I give up.
Exactly, even David Moyes knows that he has no idea how to get the team winning. Maybe we should get someone who does.
I would argue that both LFC and AFC have a better CM than us. In fact, I'd say both teams probably have a better starting back 4 than us. So given that, where as overall squad numbers, depth and quality may be equal in parts the fact we are lacking in defence and midfield, I'd say they both are better currently.
Just my opinion. If you don't like it, no need to get upset and 'give up'. It makes no difference you know!
Liverpool have a better defence than us?
I guess Moyes really has done his job in terms of lowering expectation and deflecting most of the blame onto the players.Ramsey, Wilshere, Arteta and Ozil missed a lot of games between them. By no means both Liverpool and Arsenal have better back 4(5) than us. In CM Liverpool have aging Gerrard, Henderson, Allen, Leiva, back four again you must be joking.
Pool with the same squad finished 7th last year. You need to check your facts straight.
Only team that has better squad than United is City. Chelsea is arguable.
All teams have much better managers than United tho and by some distance. They play better as a team, more organized and get much better results.
That doesn't really follow. There will be more managers available in the summer. Unless they had someone lined up who was already free, they'd be going for a temp manager and they might feel that its better to give him the longest possible chance. If they preferred the Red Cafe faves - Simeone and Klopp by my reckoning - neither of them will be available until summer (if ever), since both are in with a fighting chance in the CL and Atletico are top of the league.
I think the issue is not the league position, its the performances. There haven't been any. This is a strong league at the top this year, and a team can be quite a way from the top despite good form. Look at Southampton. They've been great several times when I've seen them, but in the end a top half position is all they'll get for it.
However, have there been any occasions this season when a game has finished and you thought "Wow, we looked good at times today"? The best we've managed is probably "Hmm, better but not great, but maybe we've turned a corner." This has been an utterly joyless season.
I agree our defense and midfield is lacking for a title charge, or maybe even a top 4 charge (though I'd disagree personally), but to not be able to put together even an extended passage of exciting play in a single match by March is way below the minimum requirement. The only reason we're 7th is because we've put in a number of workman like performances against teams in the bottom half of the table, none of which were impressive and in most seasons would be soon forgotten.
What's also true is that things are getting worse. After 5 defeats in our first 29 games, we've now lost 8 in 17 (if you include losing on penalties to Sunderland). And the defeats are getting worse. Before New Year, City away was our only real hiding. Even though we didn't deserve much vs Everton, Newcastle etc, they were at least close games & will be forgotten in the end. But the games vs Olympiakos, City and Liverpool were historic and will be talked about for years. We feel like we're in freefall.
I was totally prepared for an uneven season - good one week, poor the next. But it hasn't even been that. Its been dull one week, poor the next. And I think that even allowing for the unbalanced squad, injuries and everything else, that's not good enough.
@soapythecat
I've provided you with a compelling case as to why Ferguson, during the latter years, was actually a detriment to the personal development of around half the squad. He was certainly brilliant at winning games, instilling a belief and ensuring his squad had the capabilities of scoring any kind of goal, but it wasn't suited to a cohesive style of play and a team's worth of top performers. It worked, but the sooner we downsize the squad and attempt to go down a certain player route then the more likely we are to play in the way everybody wants. The talent is, for the most part, there though.
It's not a common opinion, but I'd be interested in it getting refuted. There's nothing rose-tinted about this. I believe in our champions and I know enough about the abilities of our lads to know for a fact that the problem isn't them. 7th best my ring.
I've provided you with a compelling case as to why Ferguson, during the latter years, was actually a detriment to the personal development of around half the squad. He was certainly brilliant at winning games, instilling a belief and ensuring his squad had the capabilities of scoring any kind of goal, but it wasn't suited to a cohesive style of play and a team's worth of top performers. It worked, but the sooner we downsize the squad and attempt to go down a certain player route then the more likely we are to play in the way everybody wants. The talent is, for the most part, there though.
It's not a common opinion, but I'd be interested in it getting refuted. There's nothing rose-tinted about this. I believe in our champions and I know enough about the abilities of our lads to know for a fact that the problem isn't them. 7th best my ring.
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If we'd have beaten WBA, Fulham, Southampton, Everton and Newcastle this season at home (like we would be expected to) we'd be comfortably in the top four now.
Our tactics (or lack of) in those matches is what lost us those games, not the ability of the players. Moyes was out thought and subsequently we were out played.
Our tactics (or lack of) in those matches is what lost us those games, not the ability of the players. Moyes was out thought and subsequently we were out played.
Our squad is the seventh best in the league?
Now I've heard it all.
Now I've heard it all.
Our squad is the seventh best in the league?
Now I've heard it all.
Loyalty to Sir Alex's last words still clouds somes judgement it seems, they're not thinking rationally based on everything we've seen of our season to date, insulting and wishing their squad who've won the league twice in the last 3 years to be torn up just so Moyes can last a bit longer, these people would throw themselves off a bridge if Sir Alex asked it of them.
Are you for real? 7th is this squad's ability? How do you explain how they challenged 2 billionaire clubs for not one season, but over many? Apparently we have one of the best leagues in Europe if not the world and SAF was not a miracle worker and he doesn't play centre forward. It's just not possible without a capable squad of players. Physically, mentally. No way.
You can pick out individuals, and yes some needed to be moved out last summer, we all knew that. But as a unit, they were still at least a top 4 squad and capable of getting this with a decent manager in charge (who actually has a clue how to manage our players). The trouble is we certainly have not got such a manager now. And until we do, how can anyone properly assess the whole squad?
And you think Moyes is the man to take us forward (*laughs*) but you think our players aren't that great? Then Moyes must disagree with you cos he didn't get rid of any of them. Faith is one thing, but blind faith just damages our club and turns us into a complete laughing stock. Fellaini? Do me a favour. He's as rubbish as Moyes and should be shown the door along with him ASAP.
Exactly, I don't think many were expecting to win the premier league this year but top four was an absolute pre-requisite based upon the talent at Moyes' disposal; to suggest anything else is laughable. To finish 7th, even outside the Europa league places is nothing short of embarrassing. How the bar has dropped in 9 months.
Not arguing that the squad couldn't be improved, certainly with Vidic, Rio, Evra, Giggs and possibly one or two more moving on there is ample room for world class replacements, but there is still the nucleus of a title challenging squad there.
More to the point it's the strategy i.e proactive game plan and man management together with the ongoing tactics which have let us down. Liverpool 'man for man' are no better than Utd, but in terms of progressive football they are scarily, light years ahead of us. Moyes' first instinct is to defend space rather than attack and that is why we are setting negative record after negative record this season. Not his fault, sure he's a thoroughly nice bloke, but he is not a Utd manager in terms of character, vision, leadership or style.
At the same time they completely ignore Sir Alex also said that he left a very good squad capable of challenging/winning for many years to come.
FFS.This club has always been about rising from the ashes. Moyes will come good and make us champions.
Or burn us to the ground.
Not always mate. May I remind you of the years between Busby and Ferguson.
Do you have any shred of evidence for that?