Seriously, have a fecking word with yourself. Have you every been to OT, visited the museum and seen the clubs history and sampled the atmosphere? After that statement, i'm guessing not. I support the club, which for me includes the manager, the players, the lot. Moyes wasn't my first choice but he is the clubs choice and I'll be behind him until he leaves the club (under whatever circumstance it is). I've tried bitching and moaning about him and it just made me bitter. I now see the bigger picture and, as hard as it may be with recent performances, want to see him get there.
What will it take to sack moyes?
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Seriously, have a fecking word with yourself. Have you every been to OT, visited the museum and seen the clubs history and sampled the atmosphere? After that statement, i'm guessing not. I support the club, which for me includes the manager, the players, the lot. Moyes wasn't my first choice but he is the clubs choice and I'll be behind him until he leaves the club (under whatever circumstance it is). I've tried bitching and moaning about him and it just made me bitter. I now see the bigger picture and, as hard as it may be with recent performances, want to see him get there.
Brendan Rodgers has Liverpool playing fantastic football and challenging for the title. What has he ever done? Got Swansea playing decent football? What had Wenger ever done before Arsenal? Managed Grampus Eight in Japan or something? What someone did before in different circumstances is not necessarily an accurate representation of what they could achieve elsewhere. Some people hit the ground running, others take time. We say this with players all the time "give him a season". Well, give the manager a season, too. It's the biggest job in football. Yeah, someone else might have achieved more than Moyes, but you don't know what he's doing behind the scenes. I'm going to give him time.
It's all very strange. Everyone in and round the club is coming out in strong support of him. So it seems he's completely safe to be Manchester United manager for next season. That's the feeling I get, that there are no discussions about his future at all and he has this summer and next season to sort it out. Which is just a bits nuts to me.
If his performance as Manchester United manger was being analysed and he was being held accountable he'd be out at the end of the season for sure. I think we've just given him a minimum period before which were not really looking to assessing him, rather maybe assessing what he can do to succeed, if anything. He's been given that sort of "power" in a way, because that's how we do things. A free hand. For awhile.
Obviously all of that is hunch and nothing else.
If his performance as Manchester United manger was being analysed and he was being held accountable he'd be out at the end of the season for sure. I think we've just given him a minimum period before which were not really looking to assessing him, rather maybe assessing what he can do to succeed, if anything. He's been given that sort of "power" in a way, because that's how we do things. A free hand. For awhile.
Obviously all of that is hunch and nothing else.
It's all very strange. Everyone in and round the club is coming out in strong support of him. So it seems he's completely safe to be Manchester United manager for next season. That's the feeling I get, that there are no discussions about his future at all and he has this summer and next season to sort it out. Which is just a bits nuts to me.
If his performance as Manchester United manger was being analysed and he was being held accountable he'd be out at the end of the season for sure. I think we've just given him a minimum period before which were not really looking to assessing him, rather maybe assessing what he can do to succeed, if anything. He's been given that sort of "power" in a way, because that's how we do things. A free hand. For awhile.
Obviously all of that is hunch and nothing else.
If his performance as Manchester United manger was being analysed and he was being held accountable he'd be out at the end of the season for sure. I think we've just given him a minimum period before which were not really looking to assessing him, rather maybe assessing what he can do to succeed, if anything. He's been given that sort of "power" in a way, because that's how we do things. A free hand. For awhile.
Obviously all of that is hunch and nothing else.
you can say that again.
Only reason we're not sacking him is to save face.
Only explanation I can give
Only explanation I can give
You cannot possibly neglect a season like this. Not only have we lost more games than ever and will finish on a record low points total, we've also played a terrible brand of football which has actually gotten worse as season progressed. Now Moyes is going to need a couple hundred million to rebuild this team so it can compete for top 4 - can you not see the irony of it? He took over a side that never finished lower than 2nd and now we're not even sure we'll be top 4 in a year or two.
There have been NO positives from his reign so far. None whatsoever.
You, like some other fans as well as probably Ferguson, see him as some sort of a project. Let's turn Moyes into a proper manager, let's make him capable of running Manchester United. It doesn't and it shouldn't ever work like that. We need a manager who can come here and improve us, who can take us forward and perhaps at one point see us join the likes of Bayern, Barcelona and Real Madrid at the top of European football. Moyes WILL NOT be that man, that is evident. He might get us into Europa in a couple years, perhaps see us get the odd top 4 finish but is this what we deserve? Just so he can have his shot here? No.
Feck off, I've done all that which is why I can safely say the club is bigger than a few men, even if those men are Sir Alex and Sir Bobby. I support the club and if it means disagreeing with Sir Alex's choice so be it.
What is the bigger picture? I'm genuinely curious. Lot of us could be setting us ourselves for the greatest ever I-told-you-so with our aggressive moyes-bashing but it just stems from immense frustration and the side effect of staying up till 3 AM watching the tripe we play these days.
Wenger won the French league before moving to Japan.
What about us who've done all that, every season for years? bar the museum lark of course and found other fans in the stadium over the years criticising our youth players, particuarly Fletcher, Gibson at times, and laughing and sniping at stalwards like Giggs, shouting endless abuse at Nani etc when things havent been going right on the pitch, no two fans definition of support is the same, OT hasn't been the overwhelming bastion of positivity you've made it out to be.
What's the bigger picture soapy?
Moyes gets a shit load of money to build a dream team that even Avram Grant could take to a Champions League final, else Moyes defies all evidence to the contrary and shows himself capable of coaching this team to be better than the sum of their parts, such as Martinez, Rodgers and Pochettino.
Which is more likely in this bigger picture?
Loads of people on this forum didn't want Moyes in the first place. Fine. I didn't either. But when he was appointed, it was generally agreed that he would need a few windows to get some players in and fill the holes in our midfield and so on. The goalposts have moved, however, due to the poor season we've had. Now people don't trust him to spend. Now people think it doesn't matter who we bring in, he'll turn them to shite. I just don't think like that. I agreed with giving him a couple of seasons to make his mark and that's what I'm sticking to. The sky isn't falling on our heads.
He has spent over 60 million and doesn't appear to have improved anything.
You think the anti-Moyes supporters have moved the posts?! wtf
So you thought we'd finish 7th and play this badly before the start of the season?!
Someone said our team last night cost more than City's. Is that true?
And they're entitled to that to be fair. If the quality of football had been acceptable, I'd be all right by it. If we merely failed to win the league but played fine and finished 3rd or even 4th, I might be okay with it. As things stand he has torn apart a team of champions, we probably play the worst football of all teams in the league and both his multimillion signings haven't improved us a iota.
No wonder ppl have had enough. I was all for giving him at least one full season and a summer to spend until I judge him but if there are NO signs, really ZERO signs, of improvement, of any kind of game plan or generally a sign of what kind of system is going to be played there is not much you can do but lose hope in a manager that broke endless negative records, fails in big matches consistently, is tactically inept, whose team selections are strange, who just spent about 80 millions on players, from which one looks just like another half decent addition to the squad and the other one seems to get worse under Moyes, who took a PL winning team to 7th place and so on and so on.
There is no room left for any kind of "loyalty" or faith as far as I'm concerned. He has to go full stop.
Possible. We had 65 million worth of Moyes signings in Fellaini and Mata, a 50 million defensive duo, Rooney, de Gea etc...
To be fair, for the first season or two, Valencia was a decent replacement for Ronaldo. By no means was it like-for-like in terms of quality or style, but he did a fantastic job for us until that really bad injury he had during a Summer.
Anywho, I think the only way Moyes will get the sack is if we go on a losing run against small sides. Every sane person expected us to lose yesterday so I don't see how losing yesterday to City would have been close to the last straw.
Absolutely not. I felt top 3, good run in Europe and a cup run would be a decent start
Big changes are happening at the club. The Fergie days are gone. It's going to take time for the club, the players and the fans to get used to a different way of doing things. Moyes has had an awful start and if things haven't improved this time next year, he'll go, if not before. The board will then no doubt pick one of the top managers in Europe and then everyone can pat themselves on the back.
But I think we'll be back next year. I don't think that the club are sticking with Moyes out of stubbornness. I think there's a plan.
Not sure
De Gea cost more than Hart
Rafael was cheaper than Zabaleta by a couple of million
Jones and Rio was more expensive than Kompany and Deimecheles
Evra was about 14m cheaper than Kolorov
Carrick Fellaini and Cleverley were cheaper than Toure, Fernandinho and Nasri
Mata was more expansive than Silva
Welbeck was cheaper than Navas
Rooney was more expensive than Dzeko
There can't be much in it either way.
I thought Clichy played last night and he cost the same as Evra.
Roughly:
United: 18, 2, 30, 18, 6, 0, 28, 18, 0, 28, 37 = 185
City: 0, 5, 10, 0, 8, 18, 24, 24, 38, 24, 25 = 176
I think City's were cheaper barring some error.
I tell you, I watched an interview with the guy on the Beeb just then. Forget the players, his confidence is shot. He looks like a man who hasn't slept for a month, with 50 fathoms of pressure sat on his shoulders.
This is beginning to feel cruel, like when a boxer gets so woozy he drops his guard, and just takes repeated smacks in the mouth before the ref stops the fight.
I feel for the guy, more then ever actually. I can't imagine how awful if must feel to be him right now.
This is beginning to feel cruel, like when a boxer gets so woozy he drops his guard, and just takes repeated smacks in the mouth before the ref stops the fight.
I feel for the guy, more then ever actually. I can't imagine how awful if must feel to be him right now.
There's only so much money you can pay for eleven footballers, so there won't be a huge difference between the starting XI of City and that of any of the other top clubs. That's kind of missing the main point though. Which is the huge sums of money they've spent on players that they ended up discarding, or keeping in reserve. A comparison of net spending and wages over the last 5 years or so is the only fair way to compare the "cost" of the two teams last night.
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Fine maths. But a few things to factor in.
Firstly our costs were spread out over a much longer period. Rio was bought, what, 11 years ago now? Carrick maybe 7 years ago, Rooney 10 years ago. Where as City bought all theirs in the last three or four years.
Plus we're talking legends at the end of their careers in many of our cases. Rio has had a better career than Kompany, Evra than Clichy, Carrick than Fernandinho, Rooney than Dzeko, etc. They were better last night, but that doesn't mean they were better value.
So yes in one sense we paid more for them, but that's not the full picture.
Suppose you guys got your wish and Moyes was sacked tomorrow. I guess you want Klopp, Van Gaal etc in. Lets say Van Gaal comes in and the team continue to play as poorly as we have been this season. Lets say he doesn't do what we all want in the transfer window, citing 'WC year' and 'difficult to bring in quality' etc, and the knock on effect is we start next term with a team which has not improved much more than the current one (a very real possibility under Moyes, granted). Then what? Do we sack him after 7 months or do we then give him time because he has done something in the past with another team? I'm curious and not having a pop at those who want Moyes out. It's a very real scenario and just because we may change manager, there is nothing to suggest these players may or may not respond to his methods, training, tactics etc.
We all know something isn't right at OT currently, but a change in the old guard this summer and new faces could change that - it's a very real possibility. The likes of Rio, Vidic, Evra and co all leaving may not be a bad thing after all, and if they are some of those who are not behind Moyes then maybe it will be best for the club going forward.
I know that's a lot of what if and but's but just my thought.
We all know something isn't right at OT currently, but a change in the old guard this summer and new faces could change that - it's a very real possibility. The likes of Rio, Vidic, Evra and co all leaving may not be a bad thing after all, and if they are some of those who are not behind Moyes then maybe it will be best for the club going forward.
I know that's a lot of what if and but's but just my thought.
The way I feel about Moyes is pretty much the same way I feel about most X Factor contestants. The people in charge seem to pick mediocre singers to go on live TV in front of millions and then criticise them for being mediocre at singing. They end up getting slagged off by all and sundry and then voted out when all they really did was take an opportunity offered to them and try their best.
Obviously Moyes didn't think he'd struggle THIS much and isn't willfully losing games so the buck has stop with the people who appointed a Manager with no real "first class" experience without even any other candidate interviews.
That said, I was gutted when he was appointed and have been pretty pissed off for most of the season but resignation has finally set in and, if he's still here next season (as I'm 100% sure he will be), I'm "happy" to give him a chance.
Sort of.
Obviously Moyes didn't think he'd struggle THIS much and isn't willfully losing games so the buck has stop with the people who appointed a Manager with no real "first class" experience without even any other candidate interviews.
That said, I was gutted when he was appointed and have been pretty pissed off for most of the season but resignation has finally set in and, if he's still here next season (as I'm 100% sure he will be), I'm "happy" to give him a chance.
Sort of.
Yeah you're right, got them confused.
Of course Sir Alex will be loyal to Moyes. I don't expect anything different. It's a matter of pride as well as loyalty.
But the fact is Sir Alex came into a Manchester United that was living off of past glories with only the odd FA Cup to show for being the best supported club in the world as well as one that was an innovator under Sir Matt Busby and made itself the best supported club in the world not only because of some amazing players but because of the ethos of winning with style.
The Man United when Sir Alex came had some players notable for wanting to be part time footballers in terms of their attitude to the game and preparing for it, reflected in the drinking culture. That Man United had lost so much ground to Liverpool that it seemed the best our club could do was go on a few good cup runs and maybe win another FA Cup.
David Moyes has made the over-achieving Premier giant United look pathetically amateurish and the style of playing has been horrendous at times. He is misusing or not using at all players who could make a difference or at least need to be given the chance. Mata is suffering under the Moyes regime, Sir Alex would have sparked him. Kagawa is being neglected, Moyes is too timid to do things that Sir Alex would have done.
Moyes seems to be dismantling what our club stands for in one season. That's no exaggeration - look at how he dumped men who helped make United's amazing success possible from the coaching staff. And the City comment should have been making everybody connected with United sweat with embarrassment. If ever Moyes let slip why he isn't the one for us in his public statements, that surely was the moment.
That "every single one of us stands by David Moyes song" annoys me too. I'm sure that got an airing very early yesterday. I do think the fans will have to make it known that Moyes has lost their support, which I don't think we've seen/heard yet.
We've went backwards.
Especially since Christmas.
Both of those names you mention would, by their nature, implement an attacking system. We wouldn't get dross. We'd have a way of playing, a style. Neither would be found wanting for motivation, neither would serve up any cowardly performances. I can pretty much guarantee that if we somehow got Klopp, at this point next season we would not have a thread called "What will it take to sack Klopp?" There'd be a buzz about the place that we have a proven winner who gets his teams to play fantastic football. If, in the very unlikely event we were still 7th, then I imagine that yes, his past success would count for a lot, we'd be happy with the style of play he'd have imposed on our team and happy to give him more time. There is nothing to be so positive about with Moyes. The argument people come up with is "give him £100m worth of players then see what he does" - this is not an argument about Moyes' quality, it's an argument that with United's financial strength, surely anyone can succeed. We don't want anyone, we want the best.
Saving face as individuals (charlton, fergie)so we can continue to suffer further humiliations on the pitch as a club.
And possibly the worst is yet to come. Just take a look at this scenario: Arsenal lose at home to City and then lose again at Goodison Park. Everton will be in 4th! I can't even imagine how it is going to be for him when we visit GP being 7th, while Everton will be fighting for CL qualification. He will be on the loneliest place on earth. Imo our visit to Everton is going to be the most difficult day of his managerial career.
Bingo. He has a proven track record of success in various countries. Moyes has a proven track record of existing in the PL.
We did. Into a dead end
Yeah. I totally believed this when it came out, that Moyes was hurting that much over Everton.
Who knows a defeat at Everton could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
And we thought we'll turn a corner after Christmas
This is it. It's weird everything his Everton team were good at, we are bad at.
His Everton team were organized defensively and hard to beat. We are easy. His Everton team fought. We give up after going a goal down. His Everton team got stronger as the season progressed. We have gotten worse.
The term Evertonization isn't true because he has made us even worse than his Everton team.