Demichellis would look awful in our back line particularly without a Fernandinho helping to protect him. I'd have Smalling and Jones over him despite the injury proness.
What will it take to sack moyes?
- Thread starter bosnian_red
- Start date
Never underestimate the stubbornness of SAF. I can't ever see him advising the Glazers to end this debacle.
They dont need to be anything special to be better than Demichelis. He's piss poor. I'd have both Jones and Smalling ahead of him.
Me neither and they'll listen to him. 6 years I say. 6 years of this, prepare yourselves.
Unless he gets top 4 at any point which will extend his contract by further 20.
It won't happen Sarni, you know this. I can see him getting another season (which would be completely retarded) and then another one if we get into top 4 (which I think has very low chance of happening) but that's it.
In form wellbeck outplayed Real Madrid, Kagawa was the player of the season in Germany, and Rio the best defender in the world... we can only really base these on current form
The answer is about 2.5 billion, buy the club from the Glazers and sack Moyes.
Then none of our players aside from De Gea and Rooney would even get into Southampton team. It's scary to think how much better than us Everton and Newcastle are too.
I don't think this season's level is adequate though. They've been terribly mismanaged.
If he gets top 4 the smug clown will be here forever proclaiming himself to be a Manchester hero.
Having said that, I am one of those who had high hopes for him. I do reckon he's been shook to the core and will come back after the summer with a sterner outlook. With Evra, Rio and Vidic all gone, he will mould the team better and get the players responding to his demands for playing. I didn't have access to much televised matches back at the start of Fergie's reign, but I wonder was he playing wonderful, effective football all the time back then or did it happen as he got Ince, Pallister and McClair in to play his way?
I've always wondered why managers are not set targets in their contracts and allowed to be sacked when those targets are missed?
We should be doing that anyway
City usually play with two strikers when Agüero is fit, with either Negredo or Dzeko ahead of him and Rooney is better than both so he would get in.
Smalling, Evans and Jones are all better CBs than Demichelis. Mata is a better footballer than Nasri. It's at CM where there's an absolute gulf in class between the two sides.
Playing all the muppet dream's players and 'wankworthy' narrow-like formation will get him the sack. Unless he learns, that at United you can't live without wide players and that mediocre wide players are better in our system than the coveted midgets who don't have a fecking clue what to do against packed midfield and are afraid of stucking it (Mata, Kagawa). Just play the fecking 4-4-2, whether people like it or not, it's the only way we know (even if we're a bit shit these days).
Because I don't think he will get 2 years to wick another, narrow system into our DNA when you can see it's clearly not working and isn't a type of a manager to do that as quick as Mourinho would.
Because I don't think he will get 2 years to wick another, narrow system into our DNA when you can see it's clearly not working and isn't a type of a manager to do that as quick as Mourinho would.
Don't be so fecking obtuse. It's possible to have an opinion on the quality of squad that goes beyond the performance of their team this season.
People are so dogmatic about all of this. It's almost as though they can't wrap their heads round the idea that Fergie got a declining squad to punch above it's weight last season, the squad has got worse since and Moyes is not getting the most out of them.
It even goes back beyond last year. How many times have we relied on the creativity of Giggs and Scholes to create something out of nothing over the last few seasons? How many times has Vidic put in sensational performances to shut the opposition out under immense pressure? Or Patrice Evra been a one man left flank all on his own? These players are all fading rapidly and we blatantly don't have replacements of the same quality already at the club.
No matter who is in charge, these are serious issues that need sorting and you're living in cloud cuckoo land if you can't see the gulf in quality between our squad and City's.
I'm working on the theory that Moyes and Lumsden will go into the bubble room, steal some fizzy lifting drink and get sucked into the ceiling fan.
We'll have to agree to disagree then, I think we have a very good squad that with 2-3 additions (albeit pricey ones) could challenge any team in Europe. Fine enough if you don't think so. Issues that need immediate fixing are left back and midfield.
De Gea
Rafael Evans Jones/Smalling Evra
Carrick Fellaini
Januzaj/Valencia Rooney Mata
Van Persie
I've bolded players who, with a good manager in place, wouldn't have to be replaced for us to challenge. At a push Carrick could become a new Pirlo and wouldn't have to be replaced immediately either. Just my opinion obviously, you're entitled to yours and if you reckon we are shit then I'm fine with it.
I reckon Bayern and Barcelona would look almost equally clueless under Moyes.
442 with orthodox wingers won't work for him either, it's been proven enough over the first 2/3rds of the season, I hardly imagine flip flopping back and forth with the direction of the side in and of itself will solve anything at this point.
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Happy to agree to disagree. I think we're well behind the best teams around when it comes to our defence (all four positions) central midfield and on the flanks.
I've always assumed/hoped that a lot of these gaps would be filled by young talent already at the club (or established players getting their mojo back) but I'm less and less convinced this will happen. If it doesn't, we're in for a serious amount of re-building before we can compete with the best teams around. These concerns began when Fergie was still in charge and have nothing to do with the current manager. As it stands, our current squad looks nowhere near good enough to compete for major honours*. IMHO
*Although it should still be doing a lot better than bloody 7th in the league!
"rebuilding" - I think that's what Moyes is selling to the board and will keep him in the job for another season. It's in line with some of the shit his been spouting about "United will rise again" so we're goosed.
Only a couple of our players would get into City's team. And even then, it is like saying Gareth Bale would get into Bayern's team. He may well do, but Robben and Ribery are still good enough and even if Bale is better than one or both, they wouldn't lose sleep.
I think De Gea is better than Hart, but I doubt even if they could, City wouldn't sell Hart and get him, even if they think he is better. So yea, he may get into their team, but it would be an unecessary upgrade. Smalling, Jones and Evans may or may not be better than Nastasic, but again, if they are, the upgrade is marginal.
Rooney is better than Negredo, but Negredo has more goals than him and I'm sure they are not looking for a new striker. We have no upgrades in the way that Toure or Kompany would moonwalk into our team. Our upgrades would still face competition for their places, in the way that Nasri or Kolarov does at City.
I think De Gea is better than Hart, but I doubt even if they could, City wouldn't sell Hart and get him, even if they think he is better. So yea, he may get into their team, but it would be an unecessary upgrade. Smalling, Jones and Evans may or may not be better than Nastasic, but again, if they are, the upgrade is marginal.
Rooney is better than Negredo, but Negredo has more goals than him and I'm sure they are not looking for a new striker. We have no upgrades in the way that Toure or Kompany would moonwalk into our team. Our upgrades would still face competition for their places, in the way that Nasri or Kolarov does at City.
Not sure what the devotion to 4-4-2 is. We played 4-4-2 in the 70s to 90s, but then so did almost every other English team. Its no more in United's DNA than it is in Leciester or Liverpool's DNA. The team of '68 didn't play 4-4-2, and the team of 2008 didn't either.
My view is that youth, pace and a commitment to attack are central to United's essence. In the same way that Barcelona's philosophy was set by Cruyff as a player and coach, our philosophy was started by the Busby Babes. Should have seem em running, an' all that.
At Barcelona the formation and method of attack changes over time. One season they have 4-3-3 with Eto'o-Ronaldinho-Guily, soon after its a 4-6-0, with the False 9 and all that jazz. What stays the same is the development of Total Football - possession is everything, pass and move, tiki taka.
At United it should be the same - stick with our philosophy. The formation can change according to the players we have, the global development of football at any given time or the opposition on the day. What shouldn't change is our devotion to attacking with pace and vigour.
When I look at Dortmund I see a team playing the United way. Not death by possession, but turning the ball over and flying at the opposition in numbers. Wingers are neither here nor there for Dortmund - its the intensity of their play that is so attractive, moving from one end of the pitch to other in the blink of an eye.
Losing the support of OT would probably do the trick. That seems to have already begun.
I doubt it'll take off. We've got what would in previous seasons be a relatively easy run-in. Conceivably we could win most of those games. Might placate the fans and cement the number 1 spot for the hit single "actually, this time it looks like improving" by David Moyes.
To be honest I feel like vomiting any time I see the line-up which goes in line with what most on here want, i.e. narrow system with Mata and Kagawa in it. Not because of the personnel, I like both Kagawa and Mata and think the world of them, but you know it won't work. If you ask me what do I prefer, I'll tell you it's 4-4-2 or any formation using pace and width (Olympiacos, Bayer x 2). Yes Valencia has been crap and yes Young is as limited as your monthly bus ticket but you know they'll run at people and at least try to get it into the box. You also know they won't fanny out of tackles a'la Mata and most notably - Kagawa. which is very important for any United player due to our high tempo style.
Prefer that than the all bollox dead passing in the centre which we saw yesterday as if to deceive people into thinking we can play a passing game in the middle.
It's actually quite funny that our best pefromances this season were the ones using sth at least similar to 4-4-2 (4-2-3-1 in Bayer game) and not the coveted system with our 'little magicians' in it. 100% sure we would have fared better yesterday if we played with wings. Countless moments when Kag looked to the right, saw nobody then exchanged a couple of harmless passes in the middle before losing the ball.
Sweet Jesus I can't believe I'm this angry with Kagawa, Mata and all this 'finally we play with three in the middle!!!
' bullshit.
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Moyes job is to address those issues. When you spend close to 30m on a retarded option like Fellaini with Matic available for lot less then you have a problem. Moyes has been given the chance and the money to address those issues and to fix them up, he miserably failed at that.
This squad is comfortably better than Evertons and Totenhams, yet they are level ahead of us. What's the excuse for that?
There is none.
As per the second line of that post you quoted, it's quite possible our squad is significantly inferior to the best squads in the league and Moyes isn't getting the best out of it.
Which is the only point I'm making. Nothing to do with how well or badly Moyes has gone about the rebuild so far.
Fergie and Charlton will support Moyes to the last.
It's the Glazers, if they crack...
It's the Glazers, if they crack...
I completely agree. Carrick would definitely look good with a better manager, only 10 months ago he was easily the best midfielder in the league. His ability shouldn't be questioned. Ideally we need two left backs (one as a starter and one as a backup), 2 midfielders (one as a starter and one as competition for both Carrick and the new signing) and a central defender (for the depth, though it would be better if he is a starter). Then with the promotion of Varela, Keane, Powell and Zaha the team would be complete. That is 5 players in and with the selling of Young, Valencia, Anderson, Fellaini and possibly RVP and Nani and with the retirement/leaving of Rio, Giggs, Vidic and Evra this would be easily to be achieved financially.
However signing 10 players or so for 200m is a lunacity that won't and should not ever happen.
Maybe not...
Video:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rub...is-united-players-have-to-leave-30121067.html
(Courtesy of melatonin ~ Newbs' Forum)
I can't agree that Liverpool and Arsenal have significantly better squads than us. City you have a point. Chelsea is arguable as well, who has the better squad.
Is there anything more nauseating than a Moyes apologist?
The only reason there is even talk of rebuilding because of Moyes' car crash of a season. The scary thing is we're now giving the same man's, who's ripped up this team, 100m to rebuild it. The squad wasn't perfect but the flaws were obvious. I actually recall someone on here describing the squad Moyes inherited an open goal: easy gaps to fill to take the squad to the next level.
The only reason there is even talk of rebuilding because of Moyes' car crash of a season. The scary thing is we're now giving the same man's, who's ripped up this team, 100m to rebuild it. The squad wasn't perfect but the flaws were obvious. I actually recall someone on here describing the squad Moyes inherited an open goal: easy gaps to fill to take the squad to the next level.
Good post. The man is faced with a lot of challenges and it's been a steep learning curve. I've always said he's in awe of the job. He needs to be more ruthless, less interested in making friends and not upsetting people, and realise he has a shot at greatness here. Basically, like Fergie was. Get rid of the players who aren't arsed, make sure the rest know you're the boss and you're not going to accept anything other than the best, come out swinging.
If he can't get this team to perform well - and mentioning our ageing squad as an excuse is simply not correct as we are only missing a few tweaks here and there - on what evidence will we see his "own" team performing at a Championship winning level?
I don't know if you made it deliberately, but fair play anyway. I guess that it is possible to see his team performing on a Championship winning level.
Step 1: Relegate United
Step 2: All good players will leave
Step 3: Moyes gets money to sign a lot of mediocre players, but who are hardworkers
Step 4: Moyes wins the championship.
Easy!
Matchgoing fans turn decisively against him
Yup. Dick-head comments (and posters) like this.
There's a tiny (and constantly decreasing) minority of people who post on here that seem to think it's a little too soon to write him off.
Their reasons are many and varied and I'm sure they've all explained themselves, time and time again. They've got no choice, due to the sheer number of people who jump all over a comment that is even vaguely supportive of the manager. These people are also fans of Manchester United and deserve a lot more respect than being all lumped together under one childish label and told that their opinions are nauseating.
But he's not Fergie, much as we like to hope he were. And Fergie was operating from a position of strength - firstly a winner at Aberdeen coming to a club that had an ingrained culture of mediocrity and, in his later period at United, his excellent record in bringing the title back to Old Trafford and subsequent multiple successes. Currently we have a manager who looks overawed and, let's be honest, was extremely lucky to get the job in light of his relatively modest CV. It's simply not worth the gamble that he can transform himself at the age of 50, particularly when the available evidence of his first season at United and his career at Everton suggests such a scenario is unrealistic. Time to say goodbye in May and bring in a candidate more experienced in running a big club.
We're all frustrated but no one expected us to beat City last night. I'm firmly in the Moyes Out camp but if we lifted the CL trophy and swept through our remaining league fixtures the case for keeping him would be string enough.
That said, I was horrified when I learned of the appointment of Motes as United manager and the events of this season so far have only confirmed my feeling of dread.
That said, I was horrified when I learned of the appointment of Motes as United manager and the events of this season so far have only confirmed my feeling of dread.
The nauseating remark was a response to that Irish jockey's comments, not any poster on here.
Although I'm beginning to question the support of the fans still backing him. Do they support the club or Sir Alex?
CL qualification has been the minimum target since day 1, Moyes is responsible for making winning it our only route into the competition next season.