You'd think they could arrange that behind closed doors though, Fergie just says "I've screwed up badly there, no question aboot that, you lot let him go and I'll pretend to be sad". I still don't think that's an entirely unrealistic scenario come the end of the season, they'd have all the justification they needed. Makes more sense football wise to do it tomorrow but unfortunately I don't think we'll be put out of our misery so easily.
What will it take to sack moyes?
- Thread starter bosnian_red
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Well, out of the two, between SAF and Sir Bobby.. I can see Sir Alex snaping and trying to bring this catastrophe to a halt first, he's a stubborn man though, I'd expect another year of this before his opinion on Moyes starts to wane.
He's stubborn, but he's not stupid. It's not like he's never made big, even controversial decisions for the best of the club in the past, so what's so different about this situation?.. God knows why he'd need another year of this shit for his opinion to wane. I just refuse to believe that SAF isn't having any doubts, if not completely kicking himself.
And Fergie has shown quite often that he is willing to turn on those who were once blessed with his favor... see Gordon Strachan, Jim Leighton, Neil Webb, Brian Kidd, David Beckham, Roy Keane, Ruud Van Nistelrooy
Fergie this, Fergie that, at the end of the day doesn't mean much at all.
If the Glazers think it's time, then we will see something happen.
If the Glazers think it's time, then we will see something happen.
Proof of his stubboness on the matter can be seen already no? If Charlton and himself weren't so dogmatic in their principles of "We're Man Utd, we're not like these other.. lesser clubs, We're different, we're better" Moyes would be gone already, before tonight no?, considering there is literally zero indication of a turnaround on the cards, infact our form and results since the new year has seen us reach new lows and still not appearing to have hit rock bottom.
Adding in the weight of Sir Bobby going on about still being convinced of Moyes then your instinct would lead you to believe Sir Alex and co still believe in this mess, pride comes beore a fall me thinks.
It's only of late that things have started to reach a head, the more overly hopeful among us didn't fully appreciate the extent of the problems until the Olympiacos/Liverpool double tap. There's now genuine and widespread fan sentiment against the manager, the press is being far more open about his failings and the full enormity of realising that we're actually going to finish 7th is becoming clear. I doubt many could honestly say he didn't get a proper chance should we dispense with him by May. Fergie wouldn't have dreamt we'd sink this low when he gave his speech last year.
Giving him another season is like waiting for a corpse to dance, but we will and it will get uglier before something is done I fear.
Shouldn't we at least see goals, attacking football and fight? Is that asking too much from a manager in his first season? Is that mentality too self-entitled?
There's been zero progress. Rightly or wrongly, these players do not want to play for this manager.
There's been zero progress. Rightly or wrongly, these players do not want to play for this manager.
It's my birthday tomorrow. Please, please, please, let me get what I want.
He will never be sacked. We have become Liverpool with Souness.
feck sir Bobby, if he can't have the guts to call it as it is, at least just fecking shut up.
There's no need to go all classy by spouting bullshits such as "He's still the right man for the job" while in truth it's clear as day it isn't
There's no need to go all classy by spouting bullshits such as "He's still the right man for the job" while in truth it's clear as day it isn't
He's stubborn when it comes to something that he sees (that nobody sees, and he's right and been right in the past), but I don't think he's just being stubborn just for the sake of it
In the past, we have sacked managers for poor performance, sleeping with secretary and physio's wife?
Moyes-Cathy anyone? ; 0
Moyes-Cathy anyone? ; 0
Mine is in October, hopefully I will be wishing for something else by then.Twats should never have made that banner in the first place, it's pathetic.
SAF is backed himself into a corner on this one. After years stressing that the manager's job is the most important job in the club and how clubs should show patience to their managers, he cant simply step in and sack Moyes without looking bad. Also by doing that he would admit that he made a grave mistake in suggesting Moyes in the first place. That would diminish his authority at OT.
The only way we have to get rid of Moyes is if his incompetency hits the Glazers pockets. I doubt that sponsors would like to be associated with a club were fans boo their own manager.
The only way we have to get rid of Moyes is if his incompetency hits the Glazers pockets. I doubt that sponsors would like to be associated with a club were fans boo their own manager.
He's not that wrong to be fair, Manager is the most important, it's important to support your manager, give your manager time, and all that. He just pick the wrong manager
i just wonder, i doubt but this thought cross my mind a few times, maybe this no pressure environment does n't do him any favors at all. Maybe some pressure, fear of losing his job would help.
I don't think the manager is the most important person in the club, especially at a club like United were business is everything. I think that the most important position in the club is the executive chairman. He's the one who have to bring money to the club even when things start getting wrong, the guy who must have the right vision to take the club forward. He's also the person responsible to choose the manager and back him by bringing him the players he need. Not to forget that he's the guy whose supposed to identify between a great manager and a turnip and act accordingly.
If you ask me, the chairman's job at United was made easy throughout the years because SAF was a legend and an absolute gentlemen. He kept any sort of friction between the club and himself privately and he kept winning despite having people who are skint (Edwards) and turncoats (Kenyon) as chairmen. However let us not forget that some very important executive decisions has brought the club were it is now. For example, Edwards idea to turn the football club into a well runned business or the Glazers/Gill/Woodward idea to maximise the profit through sponsorships had shaped this club, making it competitive against the oil financed clubs. Without such executive decisions SAF wouldnt have had the financial backing he needed to bring the club to this level.
Oh well SAF is gone and its time for the chairman to step up. There will be some tough decisions to make and Woody will probably have to be extremely creative to persuade the sponsors who tend not to like being associate with losers to stay with us. Ultimately its his decision whether he will handle some 200m to Moyes or else opt for a better manager.
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Maybe, he thought that being 7th is just a slow start? That's where he languishes at Everton anyway.
Maybe for him all this loses are Normal, maybe he started to believe the defence some here defend him with, maybe he really think he'll become a genious tomorrow, maybe... /shrug... who knows
I wish Fergie had made obvious- yes we believe in stability but we also demand results. at this moment the message is- yep, David is safe.
it does appear that right now David Moyes is not the right man for United. He may well learn and get it right. But the lack of any sort of plan or progress is startling. And his buys are not up to standard for United (fellaini) or not being used properly (mata). Both issues again lay at the managers door.
But we have a God like figure at our club that appears untouchable. And he has spent so long over his career championing managers and saying clubs sack too quickly etc. Now he has his own chosen disciple. His career with us for so long would indicate he does not acknowledge mistakes too easily. So both his pronouncements on manager loyalty and his intransigence will not allow him to turn on moyes.
But the club in his own words is bigger than any one individual. And it appears it is now time for everyone to stop worrying about what Fergie thinks. It doesn't matter. Manchester United matters. And as soon as the powers that be really grasp this concept and move on this issue the better. Fergie had his successor decision implemented. It is not working. Any pronouncements from him declaring support for his pick should be disregarded. Its time to make the right decision for Manchester United and not to spend valuable time worrying about SAF's support. I hope the Glazers move soon and that is a complete change for me from a few months ago. Sad for Moyes but more necessary by the day.
But we have a God like figure at our club that appears untouchable. And he has spent so long over his career championing managers and saying clubs sack too quickly etc. Now he has his own chosen disciple. His career with us for so long would indicate he does not acknowledge mistakes too easily. So both his pronouncements on manager loyalty and his intransigence will not allow him to turn on moyes.
But the club in his own words is bigger than any one individual. And it appears it is now time for everyone to stop worrying about what Fergie thinks. It doesn't matter. Manchester United matters. And as soon as the powers that be really grasp this concept and move on this issue the better. Fergie had his successor decision implemented. It is not working. Any pronouncements from him declaring support for his pick should be disregarded. Its time to make the right decision for Manchester United and not to spend valuable time worrying about SAF's support. I hope the Glazers move soon and that is a complete change for me from a few months ago. Sad for Moyes but more necessary by the day.
Six Glazers sit on the board of directors. If they want Moyes gone, he'll be gone.
Yeah, we have to place our trust in the Glazers against Sir Alex. Sad times.
Dan Taylor's recent piece in the Guardian mentioned that Joel Glazer has been at the club a lot recently and very hands on.
That to me sounds like the Glazers have had their own meeting above club level, a Red Football Venture meeting, if you like and decided it's time to put their own man in there to look after things.
If that's the case I'd say they are keeping a very close eye on Woodward and Moyes so maybe it's not beyond the realms of possibility that he could be sacked before they let him spend 9 figures.
It's got to the point that I'm angry at the man. He should just shut up, he's doing himself and the club no favours.
My question is why do all our ex players believe this loser deserves more time?
Probably not. I imagine they've been told to shut up.
the Glazers will be furious that they aren't getting the champions league money this season. Make no mistake about it. With the new BT sports deal i think starting the season after, the revenue is increased even more from finishing in the top 4 so there is absolutely no chance of the Glazers allowing this to continue next season. I think all signs are pointing to Moyes being backed for the foreseeable future. The board are too stubborn to backtrack on Moyes. The Glazers could be the only saving grace here as ultimately, it is they who will have the final say on whether they decide to give Moyes 100-200 mill to identify and purchase players in the summer.
This summer is going to be the most interesting summer i have had as a United fan in my life. We are in our own episode of Eastenders. We had it so easy under SAF lol.
This summer is going to be the most interesting summer i have had as a United fan in my life. We are in our own episode of Eastenders. We had it so easy under SAF lol.
They want to be seen saying the 'right' things, they don't want to be the odd one out or the politically incorrect one.
Yes they do. Or they would not say it. They make sense too. Anyway you look at it, Moyes or whoever comes in needs more time to rebuild this squad that has finally caught up with age. The lack of pace, drive is there for all to see. The players are not stupid, they would have the best insight as to what is best and needed for the club. If a legend like Scholes is backing Moyes saying he needs more time, then that's good enough for me.
Didn't Neville say on Twitter the other day that he would take the United job or something to that extent?
They're toeing the part line because they dont want to speak up against the current manager. The likes of Nev and Giggs have managerial ambitions, Scholesy will be a coach again. They cant burn the bridges. That said, I do think they also believe in it to an extent, they're all SAF men through and through and share a lot of his beliefs.
It is simple in my view, if Fergie is too stubborn/loyal/patriotic to stack the Scottish man with a steely glare, the only people who can sack him are the silent partners - the real owners of the club, the fans. The headlines of 'fans turn on Fergie' are at this point grossly exaggerated if not just incorrect, but the actual realisation of that headline would cause change to occur. I can see why we won't do it, it is very unpleasant even thinking of it. We won't boo the team, we won't boo the manager and we won't boo or turn on Fergie. We want to conduct ourselves with dignity and respect, and I appreciate that. However, we also won't get Moyes sacked.
So basically, I reckon he will be here for a while yet. But if the fans snap, like properly snap, then hands will be forced.
So basically, I reckon he will be here for a while yet. But if the fans snap, like properly snap, then hands will be forced.
I still can't bring myself to attack him. United are such a difficult club to manage , many have tried and failed before Fergie. It was never going to be an easy job and even though I think Fergie is the greatest manager there has ever been , he handed over an ageing defence and a very weak midfield . I'm slowly losing hope though
Seriously, since when did we start booing at OT? If you want rid there are better and more grown up ways than fecking booing.
How about for a start you actually go to OT and start booing - gauge the reaction of those around you and see if it catches on. Then, maybe try holding up a homemade 'moyes out' banner and see how that goes.
So many people on here calling for the home fans to do this and do that when in all honesty they probably don't even know where OT is! Our match going fans have been world class in all of this debacle, and we should back them to the hilt as they are the only thing giving this club credit in our worst season in decades.
Supporters will talk with their feet. No-one will mind forking out for entertainment. Not so many will want to pay the price to watch shambolic display after shambolic display.
You have to ask how Norwich and Wigan recently had better results against City. Flukes can happen, but there's something seriously wrong at Old Trafford and it's nothing to do with 'transition'.
You have to ask how Norwich and Wigan recently had better results against City. Flukes can happen, but there's something seriously wrong at Old Trafford and it's nothing to do with 'transition'.
Heh. Well said.
I answer to the question in the OP, I think that heavy defeat to Bayern over two legs and a continuation of our atrocious home form throughout our remaining fixtures could see Moyes gone at the end of the season.
Ultimately, the board are responsible to the shareholders and if it's evident that Moyes is incapable of showing any signs of progression or a plan in his first season (on top of finishing 7th/8th in the league) then he's clearly not the man for the job. I've always said that finishing outside the top four should not be a sackable offence. Combine that with the fact we seem to be deteriorating, if anything, and I struggle to see the value in sticking with him. Absolutely crazy that we went out for such a key game with XI players who had never once played in the same team together, trying to play a formation we hadn't used once this season. That's shambolic management, it really is.
For all the supportive words from SAF and Charlton, they're football men and they'll have been as shocked as anyone by how poor we've been and how ineffective Moyes has been at turning things round. Combine that with the money men, who will be crapping themselves over sponsors losing interest and I can easily see someone pulling the trigger at the end of his first season in charge.
And I imagine that some people's argument is that they may not be the 'only' thing giving us credit if they got rid of Moyes and replaced him with someone who appears to have a clue.
Personally, I think the fans are the only ones who can change things. The board seem happy enough with how things are going. And all this attacking fans for speaking out as because Sir Alex is the only good thing to ever happen to United or something - the fans are/were also very important in building a great club. They always are. Fans are stakeholders too, and shouldn't be just told to shut up and back the manager all the time. Fans, even ones who are not at Old Trafford, give huge financial and emotional investment to the club, and should be entitled to an opinion.
I know football is a business now and the only accountability seems to be to shareholders and board members, but it would be nice if a club felt some accountability to their supporters. We're all in this together.
The irony that the very family who people were sure would ruin us might end up to be the ones that save us.
Well, I go to OT and it's true that there is a collective support within the stadium not for Moyes particularly, but the club. However, talk to people around you, and especially outside the ground after the game and you see the real feelings of the match going fans about Moyes. People are really really not happy with him. However, no I can't see booing something we would do, and although I wasn't there last night, with respect to that banner, there was obviously a tentative change of mood going on within the ground!!