What will it take to sack moyes?

Rednails said:
He is not repaying him though is he? In a way he is making him look a fool.
Click to expand...

The problems in the squad are partly down to Fergie not addressing them, whatever you might say, so it cuts both ways in my opinion.
 
RedRover said:
I'm not so sure. Fans with a long enough memory will rememnber what it was like before Fergie, and even what it was like in the early years of his reign. They may, I think be more pragmatic, but I cant comment not being that old myself.

I still think a lot of people calling fopr him to be sacked are ignoring the bigger picture - namely the underinvestment in the squad over the last 5 years. Its made his job a lot harder, even if he hasnt made the most of what he has. You can argue all day long about how much of where we are is Moyes fault, but for me the major problems have been evident long before he arrived and are now becoming glaringly evident.

I'm optimistic in general that the club seems to realise this and intends to make numerous big signings in the summer. That element is exciting to me as a fan. Whether Moyes is the right man to do that is, I suppose, the question.

It just interests me how quickly people have turned on a man that Fergie himself chose to succeed him. The armchair fans can criticise all they like about his tactics, and speculate about what's going on behind the scenes. They may be right, but I also susp[ect the same circiticisms get levelled at a the vast majority of managers who have a rough start, even if they then go on to do alright.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Football fans have short memories. Yeah, we won the league last year but all through the season we were commenting on the standard of football. It was a widely-held belief that RVP was the decisive factor. We had to come from behind quite often, but we loved it because it was exciting and it's part of who we are. But the issues were there. Carrick has carried the midfield for years almost single-handedly. Ando and Nani haven't lived up to the billing. Young was over-priced and isn't United standard. Scholes and Giggs have helped paper over the cracks. Valencia had one great season and has been sussed out. Rio and Vidic have been injured half the time. I could go on. All the things that oppo fans were pointing out have come to pass. We were the worst United team to win the league they said. Once Fergie goes, we'll be found out. Teams won't be scared any more. We won loads because of the Fergie factor. That's why they're laughing at us now. They could see it plain as day. I mean, we saw it, too. We couldn't believe we were winning the league with our midfield, but so long as Fergie was in charge we would always be up there. Now he's gone and reality has hit hard. I believe we have to rebuild and it will take time.

Again, I'll stress that I don't know if Moyes can do it, but what I do know is that it doesn't take 6 months.
 
all this rebuild thing can be true , but ...its not like moyes tries to play a certain way and his squad is not technically gifted to do so and he needs better players for his style to come in place .
how do you rebuild if your style is negative combined with hoof ball ? sell all the to gifted players and buy some expert ' hoofers ' and put some hight poles up front
 
Badunk said:
This is how I see it. I grew up with Liverpool winning everything and us being a good cup team. I don't know if Moyes is the right man, but he's got a massive job on his hands. He was never going to walk in and pick up where Fergie left off. On the one hand people are saying that Moyes hasn't inherited the same situation Fergie did when he took over (ie complete rebuilding job) and that everything is in place for success. It seems to me that lots of the same people are panicking like feck because they forsee a Liverpool-type decline if we don't get shut of Moyes immediately. I agree that Moyes is a bit timid in not wanting to deviate too much from the winger-dominant DNA of the club, but I think he will get to the point where he gets angry and starts doing things his way. He's in the shadow of a legend right now, the legend who hand-picked him, and I believe he thinks he owes him.
Click to expand...

I understand that people will worry that not being in the top 4 could have long term adverse effects. To me though, I'm not convinced that long term its as disasterous as some might think.

When the Liverpool dropped out, they had the problem of not having the funds to spend big on real top class players. They had to identify players from the level below - which the arguably did, in order to have a chance and that isn't easy.

United, on the other hand are seemingly capable of spending huge sums of money in terms of wages and transfer fees. Not being in the CL may be an issue for some players, but a lot will undoubtedly look at the ambition of the club in terms of who they want to bring in and where they want to be and be happy with that. Not all of the best players can go to Madrid, Barca, Chelsea or City and I feel confident that the club will be able to attract the right sort of player. We need, in my opinion 7 or 8 players, and I see no reason why the club can't get them if they're willing to spend because at the end of the day, cash is king.

Whatever way you look at it the club generates huge sums of money can probably compete with any club in the world financially to a degree. Chelsea and City are not as mad as they once were and the attraction to PSG (who already have a lot of good players to accomodate) and Monaco is limited.

The irony for me is, considering the vitriol aimed at Chelsea and City and the mega bucks spent to get them into the top 4 and title contention, is how our fans react when we do the same. We're likely to spend massively in the summer, regardless of who's in charge.
 
Last edited:
botond said:
all this rebuild thing can be true , but ...its not like moyes tries to play a certain way and his squad is not technically gifted to do so and he needs better players for his style to come in place .
how do you rebuild if your style is negative combined with hoof ball ? sell all the to gifted players and buy some expert ' hoofers ' and put some hight poles up front
Click to expand...

This is a massive over exaggeration for me. Moyes might like to spread the play and attack from the wings, but its hardly "hoofball". He's not Sam Allardyce or Tony Pulis.

You might think he should try and play like Barcelona - but unfortunately we dont have the players to do that either. I'm not saying he hasnt made tactical errors but suggesting he only plays one way, based largely on one game where the team had 10 men in the box for most of it is ridiculous.

At times this season, when we've had a decent side we've played decent stuff (Leverkusen and Swansea in particular are games that spring to mind of the top of my head) - and it isnt as if Fergie had us playing amazingly entertaining football last year either.
 
Badunk said:
Agreed. Football fans have short memories. Yeah, we won the league last year but all through the season we were commenting on the standard of football. It was a widely-held belief that RVP was the decisive factor. We had to come from behind quite often, but we loved it because it was exciting and it's part of who we are. But the issues were there. Carrick has carried the midfield for years almost single-handedly. Ando and Nani haven't lived up to the billing. Young was over-priced and isn't United standard. Scholes and Giggs have helped paper over the cracks. Valencia had one great season and has been sussed out. Rio and Vidic have been injured half the time. I could go on. All the things that oppo fans were pointing out have come to pass. We were the worst United team to win the league they said. Once Fergie goes, we'll be found out. Teams won't be scared any more. We won loads because of the Fergie factor. That's why they're laughing at us now. They could see it plain as day. I mean, we saw it, too. We couldn't believe we were winning the league with our midfield, but so long as Fergie was in charge we would always be up there. Now he's gone and reality has hit hard. I believe we have to rebuild and it will take time.

Again, I'll stress that I don't know if Moyes can do it, but what I do know is that it doesn't take 6 months.
Click to expand...

I totally agree. He may not have what it takes - but I'm dubious that the time to make that decision is now considering the work that needs to be done in regard to the sqaud.

Put bluntly it is not a "six month" job - so if you start down that route, where do you end up? It was going to take 3 transfer windows in my opinion, and unfortunately the first one was wasted. You can say he should be doing better, and fair enough. but its clearly not easy and he hasnt had a lot of luck. Mourinho would have fared better no doubt - but he is already the finished article and seemingly not what they were after.

Last year a lot of things went United's way - City threw points away, Chelsea had regularly changed their manager, Arsneal did their ususal (as they might this year) ini falling away and Liverpool had a new manager and were in transition.

The football last year wasnt great and RVP was the main reason, in my opinion that we won the title. 26 goals and often key goals at that - something that Moyes has not had the benefit of. The midfield was desperate - so much so that Scholes had to come out of retirement - and that issue hasnt been addressed. Our wingers are also average.

This year, Rio isnt the same player - which has been a big issue, and the other probelms remain.
 
Badunk said:
This is how I see it. I grew up with Liverpool winning everything and us being a good cup team. I don't know if Moyes is the right man, but he's got a massive job on his hands. He was never going to walk in and pick up where Fergie left off. On the one hand people are saying that Moyes hasn't inherited the same situation Fergie did when he took over (ie complete rebuilding job) and that everything is in place for success. It seems to me that lots of the same people are panicking like feck because they forsee a Liverpool-type decline if we don't get shut of Moyes immediately. I agree that Moyes is a bit timid in not wanting to deviate too much from the winger-dominant DNA of the club, but I think he will get to the point where he gets angry and starts doing things his way. He's in the shadow of a legend right now, the legend who hand-picked him, and I believe he thinks he owes him.
Click to expand...

What is exactly his way? Everton way? Tiki taka? You really think he has any other ways in his mind he kept till last minute?

In the movies thw heroes always does that, but this is real life
 
Badunk said:
Agreed. Football fans have short memories. Yeah, we won the league last year but all through the season we were commenting on the standard of football. It was a widely-held belief that RVP was the decisive factor.
Click to expand...


Yeah but after spending record amounts on our team via two big signings we are playing WORSE football and having WORSE results. 81 crosses in the recent game v Fulham and other records of not being beaten to such and such a team in 30 years are going every other week!!!

Even in SAF's later years it was Brazil '70 mixed with Treble '99 compared to now.
 
Badunk said:
This is how I see it. I grew up with Liverpool winning everything and us being a good cup team. I don't know if Moyes is the right man, but he's got a massive job on his hands. He was never going to walk in and pick up where Fergie left off. On the one hand people are saying that Moyes hasn't inherited the same situation Fergie did when he took over (ie complete rebuilding job) and that everything is in place for success. It seems to me that lots of the same people are panicking like feck because they forsee a Liverpool-type decline if we don't get shut of Moyes immediately. I agree that Moyes is a bit timid in not wanting to deviate too much from the winger-dominant DNA of the club, but I think he will get to the point where he gets angry and starts doing things his way. He's in the shadow of a legend right now, the legend who hand-picked him, and I believe he thinks he owes him.
Click to expand...

Why not? The board has backed him by letting him spend 70m on two players to add to a great team its not a team in decline its a great mixture of youth and mature players and its certainly capable of top 4.The squad is more than good enough to beat Stoke or Fulham and has nothing to be jealous of Liverpool or Spurs squad. Like someone else said Bayern Munich changed managers and they keep winning, Juventus change managers and they keep winning, Barca and Real Madrid change managers and they keep winning. Chelsea and Man City change managers and they keep winning we change manager and have become a mid table team incapable of hardly anything.
 
I hope he buys truly world class players in the summer. If he can't get them playing and delivering results, then he'd have to admit himself he's not up to it. At least the next manager in would have quality to work with.

That said, I want to see Moyes get it right.
 
If you look at the squad the problem is not about creativity. You cant say that a squad who have players like Rooney, Mata, Januzaj and RVP isn't creative enough. The problems lie deeper in center midfield and defense who seem struggling to retain the ball, close the gaps and allow the attacking players to focus on their work. Our tactics aren't great either. Players like Mata and Januzaj should be given licence to cut inside and cause damage rather then stick to the flank like what happened at Fulham.
 
Loon said:
I hope he buys truly world class players in the summer. If he can't get them playing and delivering results, then he'd have to admit himself he's not up to it. At least the next manager in would have quality to work with.

That said, I want to see Moyes get it right.
Click to expand...
To be perfectly honest, I'd rather he got sacked tomorrow and somebody else got it right. Who knows, maybe a club legend would come and take over and become our long term manager, rather then moyes get it right here. It's gotten to the stage where I just don't like him anymore, although that is probably mostly due to me having absolutely no faith that he has what it takes to turn this around, or have enough to manage a top team or play exciting football.
 
bosnian_red said:
To be perfectly honest, I'd rather he got sacked tomorrow and somebody else got it right. Who knows, maybe a club legend would come and take over and become our long term manager, rather then moyes get it right here. It's gotten to the stage where I just don't like him anymore, although that is probably mostly due to me having absolutely no faith that he has what it takes to turn this around, or have enough to manage a top team or play exciting football.
Click to expand...

I'll be honest and say I don't like the idea of a club legend becoming our manager. Moyes hasn't lost me yet, but if he went, I would want a proven track record manager in there -- a Hiddink or whoever.
 
bosnian_red said:
To be perfectly honest, I'd rather he got sacked tomorrow and somebody else got it right. Who knows, maybe a club legend would come and take over and become our long term manager, rather then moyes get it right here. It's gotten to the stage where I just don't like him anymore, although that is probably mostly due to me having absolutely no faith that he has what it takes to turn this around, or have enough to manage a top team or play exciting football.
Click to expand...

If you have no faith that a manager with a long PL track record of doing well can't turn it around - why on earth do you think that a "club legend" with little to no managerial experience can come in and do a better job?

Lots of ex-United players have ended up in management and a lot of them have been suggested by people as possible long term United managers at some stage on here. I recall wjhen Roy Keane was doing well at Sunderland some suggested he'd be Fergie's long term replacement. The fact is none of them have shown remotely enough to be considered for a job of this size and difficulty.

Solskjaer is perhaps the most likely to get a chance at some stage long term - but he's hardly setting the PL alight so far with Cardiff. ENglish football will be a steep learning curve for him and will prove ultimately if he has what it takes.

If Moyes goes its not time to be romantic about it and think Ryan Giggs is going to come in and have a "Roy of the Rovers" career. There is much more to management that having been a good player and loving a club.
 
simonhch said:
Hiring Moyes to replace Ferguson is the equivalent of signing Valencia to replace Ronaldo.
Click to expand...
Nope. Valencia at that time was one of the best wingers in the world and gave us 2 wonderful seasons (and another very good one when he returned from the injury). Replace Valencia with Milner and we have a deal. A defensive, hard working but untalented player/manager.
 
Won't be enough. We're going to be stuck like this until sometime next season.
 
When we get relegated to the Conference North there might be a few murmurs of discontent against Moyes.
 
arthurka said:
2-0 Olymp

3-0 Liverpool

3-0 City

We´re Man Utd we do what we can!
Click to expand...
Why stop there? 4-1 City, 1-0 Liverpool, 3-1 Chelsea after we were losing 3-0, 0-0 against Chelsea. We can't even fecking score against a big team, let alone compete.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Why not? The board has backed him by letting him spend 70m on two players to add to a great team its not a team in decline its a great mixture of youth and mature players and its certainly capable of top 4.The squad is more than good enough to beat Stoke or Fulham and has nothing to be jealous of Liverpool or Spurs squad. Like someone else said Bayern Munich changed managers and they keep winning, Juventus change managers and they keep winning, Barca and Real Madrid change managers and they keep winning. Chelsea and Man City change managers and they keep winning we change manager and have become a mid table team incapable of hardly anything.
Click to expand...

The big difference is non of the teams mentioned had their previous manager pick their successor. I think even the Glaziers who know nothing about football, would have selected Jose Mourinho.
 
Just sack him please, just sack him.

What is his playing style? What are his tactics? What are his contingency plans?!!!

I can't believe he's getting a free pass at the biggest football club in the world after every game just by saying "we'll try harder"
 
To be fair he deserves a chance to finish our CL campaign having got us this far.

When Bayern knock us out though, absolutely nothing to stop us from cutting our losses and approaching managers to take over in the summer.

Unless by some miracle we're European champions he shouldn't be here next season. Let's hope the club see sense.
 
Didnt Charlton come and say he was the right man?? Either he has lost his marbles or United didnt put a clause in Moyes contract..
 
I think humiliation at the hands of Bayern will see it happen. That's the only real game(s) we have left.
 
You can wish for it all you like but he won't be sacked until after he's had a chance to rebuild the squad. Rightly or wrongly that's just how it's going to be so we might as well wait and see how he does.
 
Would be shocked if we sacked him. Probably will be given the summer too.

Then there really are no excuses if he starts off next season poorly...
 
Sunny Jim said:
Dont be silly guys he wont get sacked this season no matter what.
Click to expand...

This is what is depressing me. Moyes knows he has a free pass till next season and that is wrong, he has no right to have one. Nobody does at a club this big
 
You must log in or register to reply here.