Probably would have, yeah. But how many top class player's are currently sat on their arse around Europe, not in the manager's plans?
What will it take to sack moyes?
- Thread starter bosnian_red
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All we caftards actually "know" is that Moyes is a party to a six year contract to manage Manchester United.
Any speculation that he would be sacked after 2 or 3 or 5 seasons is just as baseless as the speculation that he would be sacked immediately if we lost badly to Arsenal. No one here can say they know Moyes will get another season, but not two more seasons, should United continue to perform below expectations.
So get ready for 5 more seasons of Moyes as manager if we're going only off of what we know for a fact.
Any speculation that he would be sacked after 2 or 3 or 5 seasons is just as baseless as the speculation that he would be sacked immediately if we lost badly to Arsenal. No one here can say they know Moyes will get another season, but not two more seasons, should United continue to perform below expectations.
So get ready for 5 more seasons of Moyes as manager if we're going only off of what we know for a fact.
There is noway Moyes will survive should this persist. He's nailed on to be sacked unless we see improvements. Failure to get top four next season and he's gone.
Dave Sexton finished second one season and got us to a cup final. In the end, it has been suggested he got the boot because of the dour quality of our football. I barely remember it, but have fond memories of the Atkinson side which followed, pissed or not.
Who knows. I do though feel extremely confident that there are many top class players that would jump at the chance to be part of a new United team. I'm also extremely confident that Moyes will pick the right players.
Where my confidence wavers is how quickly Moyes can get us playing how he wants us to play, but he certainly deserves the chance to achieve this. If we are still struggling in February next year then I'll get fully behind the crowd that want him out, but right now I believe people vastly underestimate the size of the transition we are undergoing.
Agreed. In fact I'll go one further and say that he should go if we do not seriously compete for the title next season.
Well Moyes has put enough time into scouting and formulating reports on targets, I hope to Jesus he gets it right.
But would world class players want to come and play under Moyes' outdated tactics and be coached by the likes of Round, Nevile and Uncle L? Players network and you can bet that people like RVP, Chico, Rafael, Evra etc have told their compatriots all about life at OT these days. I think Mata was an exception because he needed first team football quickly.
I'll counter your speculation with my speculation.
If Moyes takes us to 5th he's nailed on to survive another season. If we end up 8th or worse, he's nailed on to be sacked in May, before he can commit any further damage. If we takes us to 6th and 7th I just don't know. Gun to my head I'll say he stays if we land a Europa League spot but he's gone if he doesn't.
The damage from being dumped out of Europe altogether could be catastrophic, if not cataclysmic! (Or should it be the other way around?)
One thing that makes me laugh about the Cafe in general, is the view most seem to have that he shouldn't be trusted with our money. This despite the fact that most of our known targets have been players that were/are transfer muppet wet dream material.
IMO Moyes has shown a very high level of ability in spotting players throughout his career. Lots of examples of him buying value at Everton and then those players improving under him.
I think the apprehension some of us hold is in the way he seemingly wants us to play, and the corresponding player's we'd be interested in as to play to this system of crossing at every opportunity.
Agree with the top part, however Moyes was guilty of buying a lot of dross too.
I don't believe the club have any intention at all of sacking him this summer. If they were thinking that way they would have panicked and pulled the trigger as soon as it became likely that we would finish outside of the top four.
The general consensus among Everton fans is that Moyes did brilliantly unearthing player's signed for little, but his larger signings were generally shit.
I seriously doubt that Moyes end-game for this team is to break crossing records. He wouldn't have bought Mata otherwise. People underestimate the effect it will have on this team when we buy midfielders that can control a game.
He had Mata playing a crossing game at the weekend, but it's too early to tell how Moyes intends to utilise him.
I'm inclined to agree.
The only possible theory I have for the club waiting until the summer is to be seen to have given Moyes a full season and his replacement may not be available until the summer. Late summer. Post-WC summer.
Just a theory, mind. Think Moyes will be given a chance to rebuild.
I think the slight blot on his record was the strikers that he signed for larger sums (larger in Everton terms), but then I believe you get what you pay for with strikers and they never had the funds to compete in that area. If memory serves Yakubu was the only player that they took a serious hit on when they sold him.
I'm all for beating Moyes up over some of our tactics this season, but the Fulham game should not really be used as an example. I've never seen a more defensive team ever come to Old Trafford. A little more guile would have been nice, but did people really expect us to pass our way through that?
We could have at least tried to, because the crossing wasn't working. But as you say it's time to move on from that game, it was a travesty.
I think the issue is, we did break through. Then we messed it up in the dying minutes. AGAIN.
I expected our players to show some variation. yes. That was pure stoke tactics mate. No two ways about it.
We drew that came because of some appalling defending, not because we crossed it 80-odd times. The Newcastle game was far, far worse a performance. I was genuinely worried after that one.
Its not exactly an argument-winning example here, but a week earlier Chelsea faced a similar situation with West Ham and failed to score. Just throwing that out there.
Mata drifted into central positions quite a lot against Fulham, he wasn't stuck out on the wing. The team barely ever passed to him though, even when he'd got into a nice position just outside the box. Instead, it was passed out wide, and when he didn't receive the ball Mata would then drift back wide as well.
Yes Fulham absolutely parked the bus but we were in such a hurry to get the ball wide that we made it easy for them. We should have showed more guile, we would have dragged players out of position, created more space, and either could have created more chances through the middle or even would have created better chances from out wide as there would have been more space. Our play against Fulham was so desperate and rushed.
Yes Fulham absolutely parked the bus but we were in such a hurry to get the ball wide that we made it easy for them. We should have showed more guile, we would have dragged players out of position, created more space, and either could have created more chances through the middle or even would have created better chances from out wide as there would have been more space. Our play against Fulham was so desperate and rushed.
Mate come on even I dont need to explain why thats not the same.
Chelsea an anomaly
United happens every match
I disagree.
The panic move would have been to sack Moyes after Fulham. But if we are dealt with another dozen debacles like Fulham and we're looking at missing out on Europa League there would be no element of "panic" in the decision to sack Moyes in May. It will have been a fully reasoned decision, made on the basis of an entire season's performances rather than on the back of one or two bad performances.
Whenever Mick Hucknall loses patience with him...
Count your blessings, he could be our manager. Fergie is disturbingly close to him...He's gotten more access to this club down the years then some of our players
Count your blessings, he could be our manager. Fergie is disturbingly close to him...He's gotten more access to this club down the years then some of our players
I agree to an extent. I'm not putting out an argument that we played well on Sunday, I just sympathise a little with the extreme circumstances we were faced with. I have never seen a more defensive team come to Old Trafford, and I'm far more concerned with how we managed to gift them two goals than I am about how we attacked them.
Because he won't be able to get all of his first choices. Budget, player preferences (a lack of CL football will factor into that) and the need for a balanced first XI and squad in terms of skills and age profile will mean that they won't all be Matas or even Januzajs.
If I'm not convinced he's getting the best out of his current players, why would I be convinced by his ability to buy the right blend of replacements.
I doubt the club will throw money down the drain, because I doubt he'll be given a free run to "pick his own players."
Time will tell. Personally I would put a large sum of money on Moyes still being manager when we kick off next season.
The Newcastle game was the worst performance of the season, and genuinely worrying too. The players just looked beat that day, at least against Fulham they were clearly giving it everything and the celebrations showed how much it meant to them.
Depends where we finish this year. If we're down amongst the dead men and out of the running for Europe, if our big stars want away and the fans kick up enough of a stink, he might be gone by summer.
Again, time will tell. I still believe United are a huge draw for any player, which obviously sways me into thinking that we will add some top quality to the squad this summer.
Scary thing is Moyes will get more time than he would be afforded at most clubs in any of the top leagues in Europe.
It's Manchester United, he is Fergie's choice. I don't think Moyes will get the sack regardless of how poorly this season continues to go and how poor the results may continue to get. People wanting us to lose. Really doesn't solve anything, nor does it seem to have a bearing on Moyes losing his job.
I want Moyes to turn it around, not necessarily because I think he is the right man for the job or that he will improve the way we are performing. I think we are stuck with him for the foreseeable future, United managers get time and Moyes it seems will be no different.
I just hope he changes the way he set us up for matches, I could take the loses and draws. If we showed some signs of improvement, but alas each performance seems as bad as the last.
It's Manchester United, he is Fergie's choice. I don't think Moyes will get the sack regardless of how poorly this season continues to go and how poor the results may continue to get. People wanting us to lose. Really doesn't solve anything, nor does it seem to have a bearing on Moyes losing his job.
I want Moyes to turn it around, not necessarily because I think he is the right man for the job or that he will improve the way we are performing. I think we are stuck with him for the foreseeable future, United managers get time and Moyes it seems will be no different.
I just hope he changes the way he set us up for matches, I could take the loses and draws. If we showed some signs of improvement, but alas each performance seems as bad as the last.
Regardless of where we end up in the table? I actually do think we'll scrape out a Europa League spot (7th, but two of the top six also being cup winners, which I think opens up 7th place for Europa League. But I'm not sure if I have my facts right.) and thus Moyes will be spared the sack.
But if we drop to 8th or worse, which we certainly can't rule out, and it seems to me it would be financial suicide for Malcolm to let David hang on for another season.
We shall see.
I'd be surprised if the club gave that much of a shit about the Europe League. Any revenue it brings in is offset by the effect that 15 largely pointless matches will have on the squad - IMO.
I do agree though than the fans could have the power to get him out. Match-going fans that is. Thankfully they have shown impressive patience up to now.
Course we are, but players talk. If our top players are disenchanted with Moyes, word will get round.
I've yet to see any real examples that the players are not behind Moyes. Feel free to share if I am wrong. I've heard a lot of rumours, but then the world is full of bullshit.
Same thing happened in 1970. The fans never really turned on McGuinness, or O'Farrell for that matter. I remember going down to Palace in 1972 when we got battered 5-0 and the fans were still behind the manager then. It's a point of honour with United fans. Even if we were dropping like a stone in the table, the match-going fans would still back Moyes.