not familiar with this person.....Adam Wharton should be a name on the list as well
What do we still need? Aka The never ending story
- Thread starter Devil may care
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No chance we’d get £30m for Onana either. The guy is a calamity.
He will be but the fee will be too big
I’d take Osimhen, Dibbling and Delap - Huge upgrade you have to factor in whose leaving and we will lose at least 4 attackers maybe 5, the reset in wages for first team footballers is being vastly underestimated, you can give Casemiro away if you lose his wages, Antony, Sancho, Eriksen and Rashford Wages that’s over £1.4m per week, that’s over £70m per year?
Mbeumo has 18 months on his contract left that’s why, he’ll go for €55m/£45m, Casemiro will go to SA for £10-15m, fans on here where saying last year Pedro Neto was £70m and he left for £46m?
Guess why the markets blown, full recession in situ and even the big clubs are not overpaying any more, especially United, Vivell and Wilcox will not be overpaying for any player!
Not at £70-80m which is what Palace are quoting, no thanks, great prospect at £40-50m?
And then you wake up.
I'd bet the net cost in total of doing all that would be at least £200m higher than your figures.
Brentford have an option to extend Mbeumo’s contract so he is contracted for another 2 years, be tough to get him for under 50m, I think Neto was 51 plus add ons so it’s something similar at least.
Be delighted if Casemiro was sold but the Saudi’s have changed their targets now, if they really wanted Casemiro he’d be there. He’s made it clear he’s not leaving on the cheap so I have no idea what kind of deal we will do but his pockets will be lined more than the clubs.
Casemiro has already said he’s staying. His obscene wages will prevent leaving. SA aside and they could have got him in January if interested, or did he say no? Think a few will be here unsellable. Mount, Shaw, and Onana. Maybe Hojlund unless really low offer. Dalot is another maybe.
There is no way we will sign Osimhen and Delap so pick one along with Dibling then
Lots to unpack and disagree with in there.
1) De Ligt isn't going anywhere in the summer. No European club will pay the required fee and wages, and he’s not going to Saudi. He's also one of the few leaders we have.
2) Araujo and Branthwaite are not the right profile of wide CBs that Amorim needs. He needs wide CBs to be his playmakers from deep, hence why Martinez was starting to excel in that role. Ideally we want someone more physical than Martinez but ball progression here is super important, and something neither Araujo or Branthwaite particularly excel at. The alternative is to have two CMs who are very press resistant and progressive, something we don't have in Ugarte and Mainoo.
3) Getting any money for Casemiro and 25m for Mount is a non-starter. If Saudi were interested in Case they would have got him already. Our best bet is that a Turkish team agrees to pay 50% of his wages for the final year of his contract, or he leaves for nothing and heads off to the MLS. Mount's contract runs until 2028 and I struggle to see us even finding him a loan let alone permanent departure with his injury record. Let's say someone like West Ham were interested and willing to pay him 150k per week, we would still have to compensate him for the other 100k per week in his contract, which would be a 15m pay off due to the remaining 3 years on his contract. Most we would get for Mount is about 10m I'm afraid. Depressing I know, but that's the reality.
4) On top of the above - 10m for Amass, 5m for Gore, 30m for Onana, Rashford at 45m (given his wages), Hojlund at 40m, and maybe Antony at 25m are all inflated. That 155m is probably more likely to be about 115-120m.
5) HG players need to be from the UK or have been trained in the UK for 3 years before the age of 21 - Yoro, Kone, Leon and Quenda would not be classed as HG. They might by the time they reach 21, but not yet.
I'm all for the big reset - we're on the same page there at least - and I accept your point about needing more experience in the squad. Realistically somewhere in the middle is probably what we need, the problem is finding room in our budget for a couple of these more experienced players and convincing them of our project during their peak years.
Agree. He’s in dreamland with the figures he’s quoted - especially the selling fees. Just start at the beginning… £30m for Onana!! Closer to £10m.
Clubs just don’t have this level of turnover.
That’s 15 players out and 10 in.
In fairness on the Ins and Outs, I do think we need to be ruthless this summer and rip the bandaid off this squad.
Outs-wise we have Eriksen, Evans and Lindelof, Malacia, Antony, Rashford and Sancho - are all pretty much certs to leave. There's then the likes of Casemiro, Garnacho, Dalot, Onana, Shaw, Zirkzee, Hojlund, Bayindir who all have a chance of leaving too. If we offload half of these, then we are already up to 11 outs.
If 11 leave we realistically probably need to bring 7 maybe 8 new players to fill the gaps (depending on who departs).
- Dibling
- Rigg
- Wharton
- Delap
- Quenda
Would be a smart summer. Loads of English talent, relatively low wages, young core, hungry, with potential and good experience for age. Hoover them wonder kids up!
Nothing fancy, but something to build on
—————— Delap/Rasmus
——— Garna/Rigg ——— Bruno/Dibling
———Wharton/Collyer/Ugarte/Mount
Dorgu/Paraguay dude ———— Quenda/Amad
- Rigg
- Wharton
- Delap
- Quenda
Would be a smart summer. Loads of English talent, relatively low wages, young core, hungry, with potential and good experience for age. Hoover them wonder kids up!
Nothing fancy, but something to build on
—————— Delap/Rasmus
——— Garna/Rigg ——— Bruno/Dibling
———Wharton/Collyer/Ugarte/Mount
Dorgu/Paraguay dude ———— Quenda/Amad
Could definitely see a couple of those young English talents but certainly not all of them, so if you had to pick only two who would it be?
Yeah I think we will be priced out for Wharton
Absolutely unrealistic, I'm sorry. But this would be Rangnick's open heart surgery for sure
A RWB, a number 8 and a goal scoring striker. These 3 are the barest of bare minimum given the state of our finances.
Yep, that’s not the case because even if you only get £20m for Onana, highly probably as Goal Keepers play to late 30’s, and he would be wanted in Spain and Italy plus he’s still only 28, the part that you missed is the huge savings in yearly wages, we would not pay the £100-150m net that the transfers might or might not cost in one instalment but instead have that cost spread over 3/4 years on the books and that’s £40m per year in actual cash going out but the part most of you are not seeing are that when you reduce the wages by that much, they have a major impact on your wages to revenue cost and can facilitate a total rebuild that’s needed.
If the club finally sells/releases ; Sancho, Rashford, Casemiro, Eriksen, Mount and Antony that’s £1.6m off the yearly wages, replacing them with 5 players who earn £160k as an average per week saves you
£800k per week or £40m per year.
Just for the record Andre Onana was bought for £43.4m on 5 year contract in 23/24 season on a basic salary of £120,00 per week. Let’s ignore the additional £4m add on fees as the club will never reach the targets required to activate them.
As an asset his yearly amortised value is £8.68m per year so after two years of his contract he still has a value to the club of £26.04m with three years left on his contract.
Right now a lot of clubs are looking at United and saying to themselves, they have good/great players who were fantastic away from old Trafford, many of you would have said just give Antony away, he’s not worth more than £10m but all of a sudden he’s playing great football and at only 24/25, if a top club in Italy or Germany can get him for €30m and agree wages of €160-175k per week, Antony looks like a good deal to them especially in La Liga. If Rashford hits prime form, then at only 27, one of the big clubs will take a punt and £50m may be possible, again rightly or wrongly they will see that as a great investment if he scores 25/30 goals in Spain or Germany next year.
Let’s be fair here, he hardly ever took a set piece or a free kick for United for years and all of a sudden, he’s taking everything for Villa, he was our best free kick taker and hardly ever took them?
The club has been badly managed from top to bottom and this is the open heart surgery required to rebuild the club for next season, a simple 6 or 7 players out and 3 or 4 in just won’t work!
Onana is not on £200-250k per week so selling him for £20-30m in Italy, Spain or Germany is more plausible. As much as I think SPINEOS are a complete shower of S…in running the club, the football execs like Berrada, Vivell and Wilcox are no mugs especially in transfer negotiations!
If they are stripping the employees back to the bare minimum and even shutting down the canteen, rest assured the brief for this summer is to remove by any means necessary any player on high wages that has not contributed to helping the first team on the pitch, that’s a lot of players who will be told, find a new club or train with the kids, they forced Marcus out, they can easily force out Casemiro, Mount and Shaw.
Conte loves our players, he’ll buy them all for Napoli and they will be fit every game and world beaters again.
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We asked the Saudis for €30m for Casemiro that’s why they said no give him away free or a nominal £10m fee. The problem is simply balancing the books.
Casemiro actually cost the club £60m and was signed on a 4 year contract at £340,000 per week but he has the same 20% drop off for no CL football as the others in the squad.
He was signed 22/23 season, not in CL, then in 23/24 in CL, 24/25 not in CL. He will have one year left on his contract in the summer and therefore the club could sell him at £15m and this would be transfer neutral, if we sold him for £7m, the club would have a loss of £8m on the transfer net spend, however if we sold two academy players like Joe Huighill and Dan Gore for £8m combined that would offset that loss.
As successful as it is for many clubs, I can't decide how well 'targeting players younger and when they're less established and so more afforable' - the same as the likes of Brighton, Brentford, etc, do so well - is going to work for a club of our size and with all the extra pressure and scrutiny that comes with it for any signing.
I see how well clubs in that middle group do (that we currently find ourselves in - even below!) in terms of getting players at affordable prices and improving them and turning them into real gems, etc, and it seems a very good and sustainable way of running a club.
But then you think about how different it is for these non-established stars to arrive at low key clubs like Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth, Southampton, Palace, etc, and be able to improve in a much less scrutinised and pressured environment. It takes a much stronger mentality and personality to deal with the pressure cooker environment of clubs like Man United. Not that we've been finding many of those in the last decade!
Not an original thought, I admit. Just wondering if it'll be as easy for us to emulate the success of the same kind of transfer policy that other, smaller, clubs are doing when signing and playing for us is such a different beast to signing for the kind of 'selling clubs' that generally have been adopting it.
I see how well clubs in that middle group do (that we currently find ourselves in - even below!) in terms of getting players at affordable prices and improving them and turning them into real gems, etc, and it seems a very good and sustainable way of running a club.
But then you think about how different it is for these non-established stars to arrive at low key clubs like Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth, Southampton, Palace, etc, and be able to improve in a much less scrutinised and pressured environment. It takes a much stronger mentality and personality to deal with the pressure cooker environment of clubs like Man United. Not that we've been finding many of those in the last decade!
Not an original thought, I admit. Just wondering if it'll be as easy for us to emulate the success of the same kind of transfer policy that other, smaller, clubs are doing when signing and playing for us is such a different beast to signing for the kind of 'selling clubs' that generally have been adopting it.
There is actually no loss if you are simply looking at it is an improved balance sheet based on the alternative scenario:
- If Casemiro stays, it's £15m in amortisation book value plus another £18.2m in wages.
- If he leaves for nothing, United are effectively therefore £3.2m up on their current financial position.
Yeah I think a scenario where Utd don’t receive a fee but got all his wages off the books is about as good as it could get. Even that is not going to be easy, his recent comments were basically letting the club know he’ll sit out his contract if he has to so it’s unlikely he’s taking a big financial hit.
I think it’s very likely any deal that sees him leave will still involve Utd covering or paying off a significant portion of his wages. If we make some other big sales that might be palatable but I’m not ruling out he did still here if the finances don’t add up.
How's Jobe Bellingham getting on this season? would he not be a shout as can play multiple roles in the midfield, young and athletic.
Aren't Spurs very much in for him?
I think the balance between affordable experience and missing out in other areas is the key to this summer, as can't go into next season with just kids.
I would stay away from both Araujo & Branthwaite, I feel there is far better value in the market than those two.
I think Casemiro leaves we just pay a percentage of his wages for next season, I don't think there is a market for Mount unless we pay majority of his wages as what team is going to pay wages for a player who never plays.
I think if it will be either, I would expect Cunha PL proven and would be more favourable on wages than an Osimhen who according to reports wants £250k a week +.
I think Fernandes is certainly someone to keep an eye on, played well last night, certainly played better when moved centrally compared to being a wide play maker as part of the front 3.
Wharton would be a great signing, the problem is he has 4 years left on his deal and would not be cheap, maybe a player for next season when we look to add real quality to elevate key positions, particularly with another PL season under his belt as he is only just turned 21.
I believe it will be one of Osimhen or a Delap, the question is same as always money and how many positions can we upgrade in one window.
There are potentially Sancho, Rashford, Antony and maybe one of Hojlund or Zirkzee to replace and still a true replacement for Mason Greenwood, we clearly lack both quality and depth in the forward line.
Then we would also need to look at replacing both Eriksen and Casemiro in CM, maybe Kone could be that but you would also need another to compete with Bruno, Ugarte, Mainoo & Collyer, we
will need 5/6 whether we play a 2 or a 3 going forward.
I think he is a fantastic prospect, could be a real gem and if Sunderland stay down really affordable.
IMO these are the 3 key positions at the moment that I think will have the biggest impact - I honestly think the right guys in these positions could help United transform next season as bad as they look at the moment, perhaps not into a top 4 side but certainly looking at the top 6, 7, 8 positions. It'll help them adapt to this system immensely I think with upgrades in these key areas.
RWB:
Ideal: Jeremie Frimpong (~£34m)
Realistic: Geovany Quenda (£40-45m)
CM:
Ideal: Ederson (£55-60m)
Realistic: Joao Gomes (£40-45m)
CF:
Ideal: Victor Osimhen -(£63m)
Realistic: Jean-Phillipe Mateta (£40-45m)
In terms of outgoings to fund this, I'd expect them to find suitors for the three out on loan at the moment (Rashford, Antony, Malacia) and bring in around £60-65m combined, with additional income from the Sancho sale (£20-25m) and savings on the wages of Eriksen, Lindelof and Evans that should be enough to afford the more realistic options. If they manage to get Casemiro's wages off the books and the potential £30m from Greenwood going to PSG if that happens then they can probably push for the bigger targets.
Longer-term - another CB, probably another AM option would be great and a new GK but obviously it's unlikely they'll be able to afford to do 6 deals in the summer or be able to get those all over the line.
RWB:
Ideal: Jeremie Frimpong (~£34m)
Realistic: Geovany Quenda (£40-45m)
CM:
Ideal: Ederson (£55-60m)
Realistic: Joao Gomes (£40-45m)
CF:
Ideal: Victor Osimhen -(£63m)
Realistic: Jean-Phillipe Mateta (£40-45m)
In terms of outgoings to fund this, I'd expect them to find suitors for the three out on loan at the moment (Rashford, Antony, Malacia) and bring in around £60-65m combined, with additional income from the Sancho sale (£20-25m) and savings on the wages of Eriksen, Lindelof and Evans that should be enough to afford the more realistic options. If they manage to get Casemiro's wages off the books and the potential £30m from Greenwood going to PSG if that happens then they can probably push for the bigger targets.
Longer-term - another CB, probably another AM option would be great and a new GK but obviously it's unlikely they'll be able to afford to do 6 deals in the summer or be able to get those all over the line.
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I think Wharton is massively overrated, I’d take him but wouldn’t cry if we missed out
Whereas I think Rigg looks like he’s “got it”
We need many things, but top of the list is a striker. We currently have none
How much do you reckon to buy them all this summer? Over or under the price of one Antony?
I have too many threads open
look we won't in europe next season so buy young kids like Rigg and Dibbling instead of the older more expensive players on big wages
I like the idea of Dibbling, Rigg and Delap. But I really, really think we need a new keeper in the door as perhaps priority #2 after Striker.
Male it clear to Onana he won't be starting any longer and he'll find a new club I'm sure. He doesn't seem the type to be happy sitting out the prime years of his career on the bench.
Quenda, Gykores or Oshimen & a goalkeeper would be a very good summer. The midfield & defence will have to wait until the following windows.
Left wing and centre back are more important than CM, all are behind a striker.
Our current left wing options are Garnacho whose not currently good enough and that's it. In CM we have Bruno/Ugarte/Mainoo all of whom will look much better with a decent striker and winger in the team.
Why on earth would we sign Joao Gomes? He's far too similar to Ugarte.
Mateta? I'd rather take 40m+ and put it towards Delap/Samu/Ekitike and that's only if Gyokeres/Oshimen aren't available.
- Osimhen
- Cunha
- Quenda
- Ugarte backup (ederson?)
Until 2 weeks ago, I didn't take a new goalie should be a priority in this window. But its now one of the priorities:
- New Striker
- New forward
- Partner to Ugarte
- LCB
- GK
If we have filled these slots, then i want to add:
RWB
Backup CM
Backup Forward
- New Striker
- New forward
- Partner to Ugarte
- LCB
- GK
If we have filled these slots, then i want to add:
RWB
Backup CM
Backup Forward
GK - James Trafford would be a bit of a risk but he’s attainable, 30m is a lot but we can’t have another season of Onana.
CM x 2 - Ederson and Jobe Bellingham, we get out run and over powered in midfield every week. We only have Ugarte and Mainoo so we need 2 additions.
RWB - Quenda as he could play on both side. Would give us 3 attacking wing backs for two positions so
AM - Cunha would in theory be ideal and adds pace and power we desperately lack.
CF - Osimhen as you’d hope we’d crest the chances for him, but I think he goes elsewhere so likely Delap of Agehowa.
Would be massively dependent on sales, not just of likes of Rashford and Antony but also one of Zirkzee Hojlund and I think it’s possible Garnacho is moved on as well. Alternatively may have to look to cheaper alternatives in couple of the positions.
I do think we are going to see an attempt to really gut the squad and bring in 5-6 first team players.
The only first team player who will be here next season on the bench last night was Mazraoui. We only had Mainoo, Bayindir and Amad missing who aren’t long term injury problems. It’s a thin squad that is going to require 6 signings over the summer.
CM x 2 - Ederson and Jobe Bellingham, we get out run and over powered in midfield every week. We only have Ugarte and Mainoo so we need 2 additions.
RWB - Quenda as he could play on both side. Would give us 3 attacking wing backs for two positions so
AM - Cunha would in theory be ideal and adds pace and power we desperately lack.
CF - Osimhen as you’d hope we’d crest the chances for him, but I think he goes elsewhere so likely Delap of Agehowa.
Would be massively dependent on sales, not just of likes of Rashford and Antony but also one of Zirkzee Hojlund and I think it’s possible Garnacho is moved on as well. Alternatively may have to look to cheaper alternatives in couple of the positions.
I do think we are going to see an attempt to really gut the squad and bring in 5-6 first team players.
The only first team player who will be here next season on the bench last night was Mazraoui. We only had Mainoo, Bayindir and Amad missing who aren’t long term injury problems. It’s a thin squad that is going to require 6 signings over the summer.
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On Gomes - because he can cover both positions (alongside Ugarte or in place of him instead of Bruno). Currently they have nobody to cover Bruno (Mainoo does not work at CM) and another an inexperienced academy player for Ugarte.
Mateta - I think Utd need a more experienced CF. He fits the profile as he's tall, quick and mobile and he's established himself as a good goalscorer in the PL.
Gyokeres is a less realistic option given the cost and he'll likely have better clubs after him. I like Delap a lot but it's another punt on another CF who's still learning his craft.