Westminster Politics

Eplel said:
Can we quote you on prefering the tories to win the next election at least? Or is that something you don't want brought up?
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If the Labour Party losing the next election meant the party would elected a socialist as leader and started the process of real party democracy, then yeah of course I would take that. Better to spend the next years organising and building up union power than defending a right wing labour government cutting benefits and alienating its voter base. Tbh I don’t think that is controversial viewpoint to have, not using your vote is one form of political pressure(Although if Labour do somehow lose, the chances are next guy will just be Starmer with a northern accent)
 
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Sweet Square said:
Wouldn’t use it on any leaflets or posters imo.


I think there’s something similar in the US but it’s more racialised(Black single mothers getting called “welfare queens”, especially in the 90’s)

Still there is a unique Britishness to hating welfare, which is the fantasy that benefits claimants are living a great life with a million flat screen tv or unlimited holidays. Yet if you ask the people who believe this rubbish, if things are so good on welfare why aren’t they also claiming, they suddenly go very quite.

Like immigrates, people on benefits are a easy target for reactionary politicians and voters

Nah I’m good, thanks.
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Glad to hear it. One of the few who are good. Or is that just bravado.
 
Sweet Square said:
If the Labour Party losing the next election meant the party would elected a socialist as leader and started the process of real party democracy, then yeah of course I would take that. Better to spend the next years organising and building up union power than defending a right wing labour government cutting benefits and alienating its voter base. Tbh I don’t think that is controversial viewpoint to have, not using your vote is one form of political pressure(Although if Labour do somehow lose, the chances are next guy will just be Starmer with a northern accent)
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A socialist leader like.....oh yes, Jeremy Corbyn. And we know how that ended up don't we.
Or maybe like Michael Foot.
You must enjoy pissing into the wind.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
But if everyone continues to think like this then this will continue for ever more. Labour may get in at the next election and almost certainly will lose the subsequent one and then you'll have the Tories for another two or three terms and the cycle repeats.

Time for thinking outside the box, but nobody's prepared to do it.
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How do you know they will almost certainly lose the subsequent election?
 
Buster15 said:
How do you know they will almost certainly lose the subsequent election?
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But in more detail, they expect a former head of DPP and son of a tool maker who was born and raised in the Labour movement to operate against what is best for the general population. They seem to forget that Starmer has to walk a tight rope to even get elected, given the way that Labour failed at the last election when they stuck to their principles on Brexit and got a shoeing.
 
odd how all those who cared so much about the victims of grooming gangs - think of the poor poor children, are oddly silent about this scandal.
 
Read the latest IPPR North report on the lack of 'levelling up' by any post war government and you will realise why if you live in the North of England, it really doesn't matter which party Tory or Labour forms the next government, you are going to get 'sh**e all'.
 
Mart1974 said:
But in more detail, they expect a former head of DPP and son of a tool maker who was born and raised in the Labour movement to operate against what is best for the general population. They seem to forget that Starmer has to walk a tight rope to even get elected, given the way that Labour failed at the last election when they stuck to their principles on Brexit and got a shoeing.
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So you think he's pretended to be left wing in order to get elected leader, is now pretending to be right wing in order to become PM, and will return to his true roots and be left wing once elected?

That's one hell of a story arc if true.
 
Mart1974 said:
But in more detail, they expect a former head of DPP and son of a tool maker who was born and raised in the Labour movement to operate against what is best for the general population. They seem to forget that Starmer has to walk a tight rope to even get elected, given the way that Labour failed at the last election when they stuck to their principles on Brexit and got a shoeing.
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You are right. He does have to walk a tightrope. But I don't see that as a disadvantage.
 
Badunk said:
So you think he's pretended to be left wing in order to get elected leader, is now pretending to be right wing in order to become PM, and will return to his true roots and be left wing once elected?

That's one hell of a story arc if true.
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No, I just think he is keeping his powder dry
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Because if he's going on the slogan "We are making Brexit work" he will be reminded of that at the next election when it hasn't worked.
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Honestly, I don't see Brexit as a major priority. It has happened and most people see other things as a bigger concern. Especially 3 to 6 years hence.
 
Buster15 said:
Honestly, I don't see Brexit as a major priority. It has happened and most people see other things as a bigger concern. Especially 3 to 6 years hence.
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In 3 to 6 years this country will be even further in the shit, thanks entirely to Brexit.
 
Buster15 said:
Honestly, I don't see Brexit as a major priority. It has happened and most people see other things as a bigger concern. Especially 3 to 6 years hence.
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Brexit is the major influence of what will happen to the UK over the next few decades to come. People don't want to talk about it and try to pretend it's not a major factor. The press don't want to talk about it because they pushed it and it's obviously a disaster. In 3 to 6 years it will be even more of a subject as the grace periods end. Industry dies off, investment disappears. It's a gradual thing. As I've said many times it's only the start. Things will get a lot worse. And when the next election (2028 /9-ish) comes around it will be peak full Brexit.

My first impressions of Starmer in 2015/2016 was that he didn't have a clue how the EU functions or how the CU or SM functions. In the years in between that has been confirmed. Including the second referendum promise, the 'we must have the same benefits inside or outside the EU'. Now he's wittering on about vets. 'Labour Brexit will be better than Tory Brexit.'

It doesn't matter whether Brexit is pink with blue spots, it can't possibly work. So to pander to Brexit voters in an attempt to get elected is very short term thinking. If his only ambition is to spend a few years as PM before he's booted out and Labour is back in the wilderness, so be it.
 
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Buster15 said:
Honestly, I don't see Brexit as a major priority. It has happened and most people see other things as a bigger concern. Especially 3 to 6 years hence.
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Given that those other things are going to need budget to help resolve them and Brexit has reduced the wealth of this country, and continues to do so, it's a rather large elephant in the room to skirt around, even if the conclusion that it's politically pragmatic to ignore it for the ballot box still holds true.
 
Sweet Square said:
If the Labour Party losing the next election meant the party would elected a socialist as leader and started the process of real party democracy, then yeah of course I would take that. Better to spend the next years organising and building up union power than defending a right wing labour government cutting benefits and alienating its voter base. Tbh I don’t think that is controversial viewpoint to have, not using your vote is one form of political pressure(Although if Labour do somehow lose, the chances are next guy will just be Starmer with a northern accent)
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I'm not a fan of Starmer in the slightest especially given his treatment of Corbyn by himself and his cronies and also their stance on unions.

I do agree with some others that he is playing a bit of a game with the electorate and is very calculated in what he says and how he presents himself. He seems to have a recurring theme recently of referencing random individuals in the public to guilt trip the government which is getting a bit boring. But the point I'm raising is its just another example of how calculated he is with what he says.

Will he be truly left wing, certainly nowhere near JC levels anyway. But with that said I don't think he's any more right leaning than the likes of Tony Blair and I'd take 10 years of Blair over the last decade any day of the week.

As for Labour losing, even if they did I highly doubt a proper left wing leader will be elected any time soon, at least to the extent of corbyn.

For me, while not a fan of Starmer, he's still very much an unknown. When it comes to to the tories there's enough evidence out there to see how scummy and corrupt they are. So no matter what, the best action for the public is still to do whatever is required to get rid of this shower of shit.

As for myself I will be voting SDLP or Alliance which will have zero impact in the grand scheme of things but as none of the main English parties run over here, we don't have much choice. And thus NI will continue to be an after thought because it seems that the government in recent years is only interested in appeasing those who get them seats.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
Given that those other things are going to need budget to help resolve them and Brexit has reduced the wealth of this country, and continues to do so, it's a rather large elephant in the room to skirt around, even if the conclusion that it's politically pragmatic to ignore it for the ballot box still holds true.
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It's a political nightmare to deal with. I know a number of polls show remain having a clear lead now, but I've no idea how that would translate to parliamentary constituencies, say if Labour campaigned on rejoining and the Tories on staying out, given virtually all voted leave in England.

I can't see how anyone even attempts to tackle it for years when more and more economic data has mounted proving it's a disaster and a load of leave voters have died off. Can't imagine there's much will on the EU side to go through that again either.
 
Jippy said:
It's a political nightmare to deal with. I know a number of polls show remain having a clear lead now, but I've no idea how that would translate to parliamentary constituencies, say if Labour campaigned on rejoining and the Tories on staying out, given virtually all voted leave in England.

I can't see how anyone even attempts to tackle it for years when more and more economic data has mounted proving it's a disaster and a load of leave voters have died off. Can't imagine there's much will on the EU side to go through that again either.
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I don't think it's a question of rejoining at present. The EU won't entertain the UK for a long time even if they wanted to. The question is how far away does the UK pull. Clearly the current Labour leadership do not understand the problems going by what Starmer , Reeves and Lammy have said. Their current target is to renegotiate the TCA in 2025. Any change will be extremely minor and have little impact.

By saying that they can make Brexit work, means that they believe it can work and are telling the electorate it can be done. If they truly believe that the Uk are still in deep sh!t. If they don't really believe it , the Uk are in deep sh!t.

Reset needed.
 
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CassiusClaymore said:
Tell me this isn't true...

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This might actually be a new low point.

Not to say it's the worst thing the tories have ever done. They've caused countless deaths, after all. But to actually say, out loud in parliament, that children deserve to be adbucted is fukking ridiculous.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Brexit is the major influence of what will happen to the UK over the next few decades to come. People don't want to talk about it and try to pretend it's not a major factor. The press don't want to talk about it because they pushed it and it's obviously a disaster. In 3 to 6 years it will be even more of a subject as the grace periods end. Industry dies off, investment disappears. It's a gradual thing. As I've said many times it's only the start. Things will get a lot worse. And when the next election (2028 /9-ish) comes around it will be peak full Brexit.

My first impressions of Starmer in 2015/2016 was that he didn't have a clue how the EU functions or how the CU or SM functions. In the years in between that has been confirmed. Including the second referendum promise, the 'we must have the same benefits inside or outside the EU'. Now he's wittering on about vets. 'Labour Brexit will be better than Tory Brexit.'

It doesn't matter whether Brexit is pink with blue spots, it can't possibly work. So to pander to Brexit voters in an attempt to get elected is very short term thinking. If his only ambition is to spend a few years as PM before he's booted out and Labour is back in the wilderness, so be it.
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Yes. I really do understand all of that.
But my point was that the public are highly unlikely to see it that way.
You know what peoples attention span is. They will have plenty of other things to fixate about.
 
Buster15 said:
Yes. I really do understand all of that.
But my point was that the public are highly unlikely to see it that way.
You know what peoples attention span is. They will have plenty of other things to fixate about.
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At the moment the focus is on the aftermath of Covid and Ukraine. The media ensure that. If Brexit was such a great thing they'd be shouting it from the rooftops, but nobody must mention it.

Hopefully Covid and Ukraine will be a fairly distant memory by the end of this decade. The effects of Brexit will be more pronounced by then as well. In the scenario that Starmer gets elected towards the end of 2024 promising to make Brexit work. By 2028/9 when the real effects of Brexit are happening and Starmer hasn't made it work, guess who the press are going to blame for Brexit failures and the state of the country.

The Tories can't wait for the blame for Brexit to be passed to someone else and Starmer's setting himself up nicely just as they want. It's not a coincidence that so many Tory MPs say they're not running in the next election. They know the proverbial sh!t is going to hit the fan. They'll take being out of office for a few years and come back as self-proclaimed saviours.

I would have hoped that someone was brave enough and strong enough to call out Brexit for what it is.
When Farage comes out and says the Tories aren't doing it right and that the Reform party have a chance of winning votes or seats, why isn't there an equivalent on the other side who actively opposes.

If it is politically impossible now or in five years time for a politician in the UK to say Brexit is bad, then the UK is a lost cause.
 
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Think rishi I'd trying his hardest to seem stable as opposed to the conveyer belt of cabinet ministers we've seen this year.

Gonna bite him in the arse though as literally 3 need sacking already, and the narrative will be he's not a leader, got no backbone.
 


In any functioning society this man would be sat outside a town co-op handing out flyers about his talk on the new world order and lizard people, at a cordoned off section of a sports hall with about 7 people in attendance.
 
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