Westminster Politics


Of course she won't apologise or "shy away" from that shit, their are doing it purposefully as a huge part of their political strategy. They use far right anti-immigration rhetoric because that's who they are and that's the sort of voter they want to attract. I just hope they come to regret it one day, in the worst possible way.
 


NHS is too often run for doctors rather than patients and needs a decade to fix, says Labour’s Wes Streeting

Streeting seems like an abrasive idiot who will antagonise everyone rather than solve anything.
 


NHS is too often run for doctors rather than patients and needs a decade to fix, says Labour’s Wes Streeting

Starmer pretty much using the same attacks lines as the tories use against the RMT.



Also can someone explain to me why self referral is a good idea ? I remember my local GP saying one of the worst things a someone can do is try to self diagnose their illnesses.

I mean over the last few years we’ve had noticeable section of society claim they know more about vaccines than World Health Organization.
 
Also can someone explain to me why self referral is a good idea ? I remember my local GP saying one of the worst things a someone can do is try to self diagnose their illnesses.

I mean over the last few years we’ve had noticeable section of society claim they know more about vaccines than World Health Organization.
I've got mixed views on that. I variously had some liver, kidney and lung issues over the last few years. I had to periodically see the GP to get the next round of referrals and it felt like a waste of her time. I had health insurance through work though, so they happily referred you.

I also had to go to the GP to get a suspected broken finger checked. He referred me for an xray, which enabled me to bypass horrific A&E walk-in waiting times, but felt very inefficient.

But yep people with sore throats will be self-diagnosing throat cancer or whatever and wasting specialists' time.

The current system isn't great, but you need some screening.
 
I've got mixed views on that. I variously had some liver, kidney and lung issues over the last few years. I had to periodically see the GP to get the next round of referrals and it felt like a waste of her time. I had health insurance through work though, so they happily referred you.

I also had to go to the GP to get a suspected broken finger checked. He referred me for an xray, which enabled me to bypass horrific A&E walk-in waiting times, but felt very inefficient.

But yep people with sore throats will be self-diagnosing throat cancer or whatever and wasting specialists' time.

The current system isn't great, but you need some screening.
Cheers. Yeah the argument for change makes sense but similarly the amount of people I know who think they’ve got a terminal illness or cancer because self diagnosing is countless.
 
Also can someone explain to me why self referral is a good idea ? I remember my local GP saying one of the worst things a someone can do is try to self diagnose their illnesses.

I mean over the last few years we’ve had noticeable section of society claim they know more about vaccines than World Health Organization.

In an ideal world I'd agree with this, but a big part of the role GPs play in our system isn't to solve problems, it's to gatekeep peoples' access to "proper" healthcare in order to save the NHS money. My understanding is that GPs are financially incentivised to deal with stuff "in-house", rather than referring on.

Now obviously there will be many cases where the GP is right to do that, but there are also many cases where they make the wrong call with significant impacts on their patients' lives, whether that's failure to address something that affects quality of life, or failure to catch something early which ends up being a major issue down the line.

Ah @Jippy has made the same point much better above
 
In an ideal world I'd agree with this, but a big part of the role GPs play in our system isn't to solve problems, it's to gatekeep peoples' access to "proper" healthcare in order to save the NHS money. My understanding is that GPs are financially incentivised to deal with stuff "in-house", rather than referring on.

Now obviously there will be many cases where the GP is right to do that, but there are also many cases where they make the wrong call with significant impacts on their patients' lives, whether that's failure to address something that affects quality of life, or failure to catch something early which ends up being a major issue down the line.
Thanks.
Like you know that many people!
He didn't say he knew many people, he just said he couldn't count them. Life is hard when you were never taught to count on your fingers.

:lol:
 
In an ideal world I'd agree with this, but a big part of the role GPs play in our system isn't to solve problems, it's to gatekeep peoples' access to "proper" healthcare in order to save the NHS money. My understanding is that GPs are financially incentivised to deal with stuff "in-house", rather than referring on.

Now obviously there will be many cases where the GP is right to do that, but there are also many cases where they make the wrong call with significant impacts on their patients' lives, whether that's failure to address something that affects quality of life, or failure to catch something early which ends up being a major issue down the line.

Ah @Jippy has made the same point much better above

It's such a false economy to bias the system towards doing nothing and waiting until the problem is much worse. I remember when my old landlord did his back in and couldn't work as a lorry driver until it was sorted out.

The timeline went something like first his GP gave him some painkillers and told him to rest up and see if it got better. 2 weeks. Then he went back because it had got worse so the GP arranged for a few physio sessions. 6 weeks. Then it still hadn't got any better so the GP referred him for a scan. 6-8 weeks. Then the consultant had to write the report about the scan and send it to him. 6-8 weeks. Then I think he might have needed an operation finally which must have taken god knows how long. So he was on long term sick for nearly 6 months before he even got on the waiting list for the op - might have been a year, two years, more to get it sorted I suppose?

Think how much he was costing his employer in that time, and think how much time was wasted of the GP (and admin staff) and physio that needn't have been. Whereas in France they'd have probably got him a private scan very quickly for a bad back issue and already ruled out whether it was something that needed a serious intervention or could be handled by the physio by the time he was only just being referred for the scan in England. And saved him a few weeks of suffering into the bargain. This is one of the causes of low productivity in our economy I think, 2.5m people on long term sick as I understand it!

I get why they try to "protect" consultants' time because they're expensive, but all the unseen admin and comms costs in that loop probably exceed the consultant's overall, plus by the time the consultant gets on to the job the problem is already worse than it needed to be. And then add the economic cost to the country on top as a little seasoning and it's clear it's not the right approach.
 
It's such a false economy to bias the system towards doing nothing and waiting until the problem is much worse. I remember when my old landlord did his back in and couldn't work as a lorry driver until it was sorted out.

The timeline went something like first his GP gave him some painkillers and told him to rest up and see if it got better. 2 weeks. Then he went back because it had got worse so the GP arranged for a few physio sessions. 6 weeks. Then it still hadn't got any better so the GP referred him for a scan. 6-8 weeks. Then the consultant had to write the report about the scan and send it to him. 6-8 weeks. Then I think he might have needed an operation finally which must have taken god knows how long. So he was on long term sick for nearly 6 months before he even got on the waiting list for the op - might have been a year, two years, more to get it sorted I suppose?

Think how much he was costing his employer in that time, and think how much time was wasted of the GP (and admin staff) and physio that needn't have been. Whereas in France they'd have probably got him a private scan very quickly for a bad back issue and already ruled out whether it was something that needed a serious intervention or could be handled by the physio by the time he was only just being referred for the scan in England. And saved him a few weeks of suffering into the bargain. This is one of the causes of low productivity in our economy I think, 2.5m people on long term sick as I understand it!

I get why they try to "protect" consultants' time because they're expensive, but all the unseen admin and comms costs in that loop probably exceed the consultant's overall, plus by the time the consultant gets on to the job the problem is already worse than it needed to be. And then add the economic cost to the country on top as a little seasoning and it's clear it's not the right approach.

When I had some issues a couple of years ago the GP sent me for a scan and I was seen by junior consultants at the hospital. They checked everything then referred me for some more scans when they had an idea of where the problem was. They were specialists in the area albeit possibly pretty new to the job.

When the final scans came in I was suddenly seeing the higher up consultants. That seems like a decent way for it to work for me - send it to a specialised area and get the initial work done by the less expensive staff before getting the final diagnosis.
 
Starmer pretty much using the same attacks lines as the tories use against the RMT.



Also can someone explain to me why self referral is a good idea ? I remember my local GP saying one of the worst things a someone can do is try to self diagnose their illnesses.


I mean over the last few years we’ve had noticeable section of society claim they know more about vaccines than World Health Organization.


As far as I understand, this was for people with chronic health conditions I.e. they had already been diagnosed with it previously, so having to jump through the hoops of being referred again by a health professional instead of yourself is an extra unnecessary barrier to care, which I don't disagree with.
 
When I had some issues a couple of years ago the GP sent me for a scan and I was seen by junior consultants at the hospital. They checked everything then referred me for some more scans when they had an idea of where the problem was. They were specialists in the area albeit possibly pretty new to the job.

When the final scans came in I was suddenly seeing the higher up consultants. That seems like a decent way for it to work for me - send it to a specialised area and get the initial work done by the less expensive staff before getting the final diagnosis.

Definitely. Perhaps they just need to standardise across trusts to agree the best ways of working then. Or maybe it's been improved since a few years ago. The trust thing was always a stupid idea though, tinkering from the top when they should build the system with ideas from the ground up.
 
And some intellectuals here want them to stay in power for 4 more years because they're disappointed in Starmer :rolleyes:
Labour urges Suella Braverman to ramp up asylum seeker deportations
Labour has urged the government to speed up the process of deporting failed asylum seekers and criticised "12 years of Tory failure" in the immigration system.

Rachel Reeves, the shadow chancellor, said the government needed to clear a backlog removals aimed at people "who have not got a right to be here".

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...eves-immigrant-suella-braverman-b2195904.html
 
Labour urges Suella Braverman to ramp up asylum seeker deportations


You try too hard mate. This is about the huge backlog of failed applicants that have been piled up one onto another in facilities that are overflowing of people.

But keep trying to convince us that you're not really a tory, it's entertaining the least.
 
Labour urges Suella Braverman to ramp up asylum seeker deportations
Is failed asylum seekers not slightly different to calling all refugees invaders and demonising them? The fact is that failed asylum seekers take up capacity that new asylum seekers should be using and the total administrative failure that has happened under this government lead to the system being overwhelmed which cost a fortune in hotel charges and, as it’s this government, lead to inhumane conditions.
 
Labour urges Suella Braverman to ramp up asylum seeker deportations
Removing people who are not legally entitled to stay here is not the same as using statements made by Nazis regarding potential asylum seekers.
 
Urging the lady using the Nazi statements to increase deportations seems like bad idea imo

Maybe because you're pulling that out of your hat.
They're not urging to deport more, they're urging to go ahead and deport those that have failed applications and wait for weeks and months, taking up space that could be given to refugees that can claim asylum.


And what fecking world do you live in that it's better to stick with Suella anyway?
 
They are still getting deported which imo is the important part.
Is it though? The government has a finite budget and if we’ve decided those people do not qualify, why are we spending huge sums of money housing them indefinitely in inhumane conditions?

It’s exactly that sort of mismanagement of funds which is to blame for the lack of funds on key services and infrastructure.
 
You try too hard mate. This is about the huge backlog of failed applicants that have been piled up one onto another in facilities that are overflowing of people.

But keep trying to convince us that you're not really a tory, it's entertaining the least.
Calling a Scot a Tory is like aggressively prodding a duck's beak with your nose.
 
Amazing...



I listen a lot less these day but this is the general issue of the show. People consume headlines and the lies intended to produce an emotive attachment to such subjects. If they're ever asked to explain those feelings or opinions they've only got headlines to fall back on.

Logic doesn't break those emotions so really you need to replace the emotion with a new one. If you got 3 asylum seekers to talk to that women she'd probably slowly change her tune.

This is why Labour going down the route of following the narrative pisses me off. Language matters and dehumanising groups just supports the opinions of people like that caller.
 
Is it though? The government has a finite budget and if we’ve decided those people do not qualify, why are we spending huge sums of money housing them indefinitely in inhumane conditions?

It’s exactly that sort of mismanagement of funds which is to blame for the lack of funds on key services and infrastructure.
The government doesn't really have a finite budget, it's not like a household but thats a bigger discussion(Also even if this was correct, the opposition party is running on platform of not changing anything)

When it comes immigration and asylum seekers we've just reach the same point as the americans, which is both parties agree immigrates and asylum seekers are bad and the debate is around language. Do we call them scum and swarms while kicking off the island or do we convince ourself that it's very all complicated issue and it's the fault of mismanagement while also kicking people off the island. The Labour policy has same outcome but at least the aren't rude about it and maybe feel a bit about it as well.

You try too hard mate. This is about the huge backlog of failed applicants that have been piled up one onto another in facilities that are overflowing of people.

But keep trying to convince us that you're not really a tory, it's entertaining the least.
Calling a Scot a Tory is like aggressively prodding a duck's beak with your nose.
Those are fighting words

keir-starmer-boxing.gif
 
Urging the lady using the Nazi statements to increase deportations seems like bad idea imo
She seems to be more keen on demonising those who seek to come than those who should not be here. Makes one wonder why....