Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
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Despite the shropshire result I have little faith in hereford doing anything similar, the greens elected to the council have been an unmitigated shit show, backhander bill and Jesse "hereford, where is that" norman will still retain at the next election. You could put a blue rosette on the love child of hitler and myra hindley and it would still get in here.
They'll be fine, it's just one more MP for Starmer's Labour to have to fill in for at the voting lobby.
Boris still has a massive majority, he will muddle through. They struggled to get rid of May, its all huff and puff from the back benches at the moment. They made their bed in electing him leader, now dont seem so keen to lie in it!
This is the first time Boris has got a 'bloody nose', however Labour drop to third ! Win some, you lose some. Tories will be looking for change, but for Labour ????
looks like the rats are abandoning ship and snitching each other out.
Huh? Do you understand the concept of tactical voting?
Is that when you spend party money on a candidate, canvassing material and sending MPs and your own party deputy to the area to canvass for them when you don't actually want to them win?
Boris Johnson has been told to scrap an investigation into alleged Christmas parties in Number 10 following claims that the man leading the probe also attended events himself last year.
Within allegations reported by various publications, Cabinet Secretary Simon Case is claimed to have shared drinks with 15 to 20 staff in his Whitehall office in mid-December last year.
The claims come as Mr Case, who is the top civil servant in the country, currently investigates the allegations of parties held in Downing Street and other government buildings last winter.
There have now been calls for Mr Case to be suspended and his investigation into alleged Downing Street parties to be handed over to a judge.
Within allegations reported by various publications, Cabinet Secretary Simon Case is claimed to have shared drinks with 15 to 20 staff in his Whitehall office in mid-December last year.
The claims come as Mr Case, who is the top civil servant in the country, currently investigates the allegations of parties held in Downing Street and other government buildings last winter.
There have now been calls for Mr Case to be suspended and his investigation into alleged Downing Street parties to be handed over to a judge.
What's any of that got to do with the electorate?
So wait, the guy the government gets to investigate the Christmas party is himself under investigation for having a Christmas party? Hahahahaha........hahahahahaha.
Yes, while John Smith might have won in 97, I doubt it would have been with a massive majority and almost certainly not for successive elections. While the Tories were a shambles in the 90s, part of the reason why they could not regroup was that none of the old lines of attack worked on Blair. Therefore, in addition to the obvious Europe issue, there was permanent tension between the more moderate wing (whose voters Blair was appealing to) and the self-apponted heirs of Thatcher who wanted a shift to the right (“clear blue water” as they put it).
Unfortunately, Tories are annoyingly resilient; but, after two years when they have been pretty much untouchable, we should enjoy them squirming even of it is fleeting.
It's horrifying that they could have easily gotten away with it if Boris's media pals were still backing him.
They'll squirm like cockroaches on their backs, or a Derby County fan climbing off his mum. Back within a week doing the same thing again.
But, yeah, it is oddly enjoyable.
The post you replied to was about Labour. Starmer ran a candidate, supported them with party money and MPs and even the deputy went there to canvass. Which bit of that waste of increasingly little party money was tactical voting?
The post I replied to was directly addressing the laughable idea that this result was somehow worse for Labour when (to quote Helen Morgan) "thousands of lifelong Labour voters chose to lend their vote to the candidate who could defeat the Conservatives."
But I'm sure you know that and are just choosing to argue for the sake of it.
Much of the Labour vote went to the Liberals in tactical voting. And that was very sensible as this is not really a seat that Labour would be expected to win.
Let's see if it is fleeting. Or a realisation by voters that Boris toxic government is starting to unravel.
Will it be a surgical knife in the back for their leader. Or will it be a long drawn out 'wait and see' if Boris will be capable turning things round.
But the public are beginning to understand that he is not to be trusted and will become increasingly isolated.
Where's this?The post I replied to was directly addressing the laughable idea that this result was somehow worse for Labour when (to quote Helen Morgan) "thousands of lifelong Labour voters chose to lend their vote to the candidate who could defeat the Conservatives."
But I'm sure you know that and are just choosing to argue for the sake of it.
Wonder if Labour will be sending out the letters to kick them out of the party.
Yes, but is it sensible from Labour/Starmers point of view; how much real useful information has he gained on his impact (as Labour Leader) on turning possible renegade Tories towards Labour in the future battles ahead?
By the looks of it, this is not the real 'bloody nose' for Boris then, is it? I would have much rather each party look to take its own 'real' share of the vote to see how much internal (if somewhat collateral) damage had been done to the Tories, by their own leader!
To my way of thinking tactical voting is only useful (if it works) in GE's or where a governments majority is in the balance as a result of a bye-election. One seat, more or less, to the Tories at the moment is hardly worrying them. Starmer needs to know if Labour can win over/or have any impact at all on disaffected Tories, not just to confirm (what is already known) that disgruntled Tories in safe seats like this will run to the Lib Dems in order to give their own leader his 'due kicking'. If Starmer can turn even a few percentage points of 'old Tories' away from Boris, in a seat like this, then he can certainly entertain hopes of winning back the 'red wall' voters, who even Boris admits have only loaned him their vote.
This 'Christmas party -the one that never was' debacle is a spectacular own goal by the Tories but aiming responsibility solely at Boris's leadership could be a mistake, the Tories will find someone else to take the fall and Boris will now have had a sharp reminder that an inescapable truth has been delivered to him, namely that he needs to shore up his immediate inner circle to help to prevent him allowing the same thing happening again.
Boris will know now after this, that if he doesn't fix the hole in his personal circle in No 10, then his days at that address as leader are limited and his rivals in the Tory Party will be gathering to plot his replacement.
Boris is a cult leader, and cults don't do or encourage introspection, otherwise the illusion would be shattered.
hes also a cnut
The North Shropshire result has absolutely terrified Tory MPs. When one of the safest seats in the country flips (and by a comfortable margin at that) every Tory MP starts feeling like their own seat is no longer safe. The Tories have countless seats with much, much smaller majorities than they held in North Shropshire, and all those MPs are now looking at their own political futures with trepidation. It was an earthquake moment for the Tory party.
And do you think that he will fix that.
Even if he does do what is necessary, how long do you think that will last.
I just cannot believe that any change or so called improvement in the way he operates will be anything other than a short term act.
Boris is Boris, love him or hate him.
He will be better protected (against himself, mainly) the response to this debacle tells him that if he doesn't get somebody to protect his back, he's 'toast'... but there again maybe that's what he wants, to spend more time with his (new) family!!
A bit like Ole found, if you keep rising up the ladder, eventually you prove the 'Peter Principle' about being promoted to the level of (your personal) incompetence.
When that happens he either needs someone (he trusts) to tell him to go, or a 'Brutus' standing behind him!
Lovely. What is it about Brexit that keeps costing Leavers their jobs, I wonder?
Piers Corbyn is an embarrassment to his brother
Erm, Boris was an incompetent and corrupt Mayor of London, an incompetent and corrupt Foreign Secretary, and now he's an incompetent and corrupt Prime Minister. He's more proving that Hitler's principles of propaganda can still get you to the top (https://www.physics.smu.edu/pseudo/Propaganda/goebbels.html), and Lincoln's principle that you can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Seems he feels Johnson isn't right wing enough. Wants a lightly regulated and low tax economy. So less protection in law against a whole host of injustices, and worse public services to boot. If you're poor for whatever reason then just fecking tough. If him and his like do manage to stand for power then hopefully the voting public will see through the cnuts.
I'm a leaver and I got a promotion, winner!
This smacks of Frost positioning himself for a leadership challenge to me. He's bailing out of the Brexit negotiations just as we start to back down on some demands; I doubt he wants to be associated with a climb down. Positioning himself clearly as anti lockdown/anti regulation candidate early on, and probably hoping the more traditional conservative vote splits between candidates like Truss and Sunak.
Probably a few months yet, though.
Probably a few months yet, though.
I thought that too, but he's not an MP, maybe he sees himself as a kingmaker for now, with longer term aims?
Lords can be PM, can't they? I doubt that's what he's got in mind though.