idk, he has matching trousers.
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
- Start date
Good fecking point. What a dork.
There is one downside to PR, you'd imagine a split Labour party would soon see a financing issue. No doubt that would lead to greater influence from wealthy donors.
Why?
Labour already struggles, throw in union funding being split and the subs being split and there's an issue there because costs don't come down.
The left would probably do okay as it'd be able to target issues people care about and see it's subs increase again. Centrist Labour would be far more influenced by wealthy donors as they'd be reliant on them.
Any PR system would need increased central funding and a tighter control on donations to be fair.
She’s getting ready
I’m all for it. I think she’d be a disaster and last just long enough for an election. Perfect.
I don't know. The pork market boosts could transform the economy.
Looks like Starmers broadcast...
Don’t forget cottage cheese in Japan!
I wouldn't think its as simple as that, under a PR system, "Labour" would split into at least two factions - and people would be able to support & donate towards whatever party comes out of those splits.
I think part of the reason why Labour has struggled in recent years (I don't believe it has a history of struggling financially) is because of the polarisation - you have large factions who refused to support Corbyn, and likewise Starmer.
Separate those factions out and I don't believe you'll see those same issues.
Agreed on the point about funding & donations.
Aren't something like 70% of votes typically wasted under FPTP at general elections? Also the fact that your vote is only really important if you live in a battleground seat is Also FPTP makes politics more tribal, adversarial and more toxic. Parties compromising and working constructively with each other can only be a good thing.
Some of the arguments I've heard in favour of keeping FPTP are 1) PR would lead to endless coalitions, 2) FPTP is vital to maintain the local MP - constituency link, 3) UKIP would have won a shed load of seats if PR had been in place in 2015.
For point 1) Labour and the Tories are both coalitions within themselves, so every majority Tory and Labour government has been a coalition government. From 2010-2015, didn't Cameron battle far more against his own Tory back-benchers, than against the Lib Dems, especially over Europe and same sex marriage.
Regarding point 2) Irish elections have a form of PR with the Single Transferrable Vote system, and that is shown to any increase local politics into smaller towns. It's definitely possible to have a form or PR and main that local link. Also let's face it, most voters probably couldn't even name their local MP, and basically vote for the party and indirectly the national leader.
Regarding point 3), as much as I hated UKIP, any party that gets nearly 13% of the vote deserves a lot more than 1 seat regardless of my personal opinion of their politics. Also many of the back-bench Tory MPs have essentially been Ukippers in all but name, just not wanting to give up their ultra-safe seats where a donkey wearing a blue rosette would get elected.
I think you're just responding to someone who wrote FPTP when they meant PR.
Ah yes I know they meant PR, so was essentially agreeing and adding some additional comments.
I would honestly prefer a Labour minority government / one propped up by smaller parties over a Labour majority government (though that seems highly unlikely anyway especially considering how bad they are in Scotland), if it could lead to electoral reform. FPTP is a major reason why Westminster politics is broken.
She’s too stupid to be PM
I hold the view that PR is only likely to come about when one or other of the 'big two' not only continue to fail persistently to gain power, via FPTP, and as a result of this almost systemic failure as a party, they then do actually disintegrate as a viable party voting option.
At the moment this it seems is more likely to happen to Labour than to the Tories, even though as you have pointed out there are significant differences within the Tory ranks.
Once there is only one party who realistically can form a government, then all the remaining parties have to form a PR coalition (of political expediency) to even stand a chance of surviving they have to come together; as @sun_tzu has suggested, this would be likely to be a broad coalition of the left and Nationalists in Scotland and Wales, also the Lib/Dem splitting as well into Liberals and Social Democrats.
Such a seismic change coming about is perhaps nearer than many may think; UKIP and later the Brexit Party, never gained power or even shared power with anyone in the UK Parliament, yet they affected major change. Climate issues and the growing issue of increasing migration from poorer countries to more affluent ones, are two major issues which will probably determine the political landscape/ future of many western countries in the next 50 years. These or other similar world wide issues (e.g. pandemics )are big enough and will not go away and hence they will become the catalyst for radical changes, possible all over the democrat world, but I don't see it happening in totalitarian states.
While we're all here - don't forget to vote for the RedCafe awards! The voting threads are here:
Part 1
Part 2
The voting template is at the start of each thread - but you don't need to vote in every category. If you don't want to spend much time on this, just vote for the ones you can think of right away and leave it at that. We'd basically just to love to get more votes and get results that are a bit more representative of the entire forum.
Thanks!
Part 1
Part 2
The voting template is at the start of each thread - but you don't need to vote in every category. If you don't want to spend much time on this, just vote for the ones you can think of right away and leave it at that. We'd basically just to love to get more votes and get results that are a bit more representative of the entire forum.
Thanks!
The female Boris Johnson? No thanks.
Not until you ditch FPTP.
I hate it. Would be delighted to do that.
Wonderful. Looking forward to jojojo being denied best poster by a loosely held together coalition of 7 people most of which got 1 vote.
They'd have to split the prize though. Each to get one point of the star and its base?
If you think the government's handling of Covid under Johnson was execrable, it was even worse in an imaginary situation in my head.
Don’t like how Boris is handling the pandemic? Think how much worse it would have been under Corbyn
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columni...andling-pandemic-think-much-worse-would-have/
Don’t like how Boris is handling the pandemic? Think how much worse it would have been under Corbyn
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columni...andling-pandemic-think-much-worse-would-have/
Brilliant
Oh he can feck the feck right off!!!
Funny how they still try to turn Corbyn into the bogieman when we have the most incompetent and corrupt government in living memory.
It reminds me of those ‘this is what socialism looks like’ photos whilst showing us photos of the results of capitalism.
It's all they have.
I know- seeing that link you assume it's from two years ago, but some are still hiding behind that line.
I was not a huge Corbyn fan or anything and he definitely had his weaknesses, but I do subscribe to the view that he was unfairly hounded, slandered and mistreated by the media (and by 'centrists' within his own party on occasions).
Even the Guardian, normally an ally to Labour leaders, was largely against him, and I'm sure that they actually deliberately mispresented what he sad on a few occasions.
Also give me Corbyn as PM over Johnson without a shadow of a doubt, someone who care actually cares about the public and their welfare vs. someone who sees politics as a game / something to tick off his bucket list.
Even the Guardian, normally an ally to Labour leaders, was largely against him, and I'm sure that they actually deliberately mispresented what he sad on a few occasions.
Also give me Corbyn as PM over Johnson without a shadow of a doubt, someone who care actually cares about the public and their welfare vs. someone who sees politics as a game / something to tick off his bucket list.
It reeks of absolute desperation when they cons who have been in power for than a decade start saying how much worse things would be under labour.
Corbyn supposedly would've turned Britain into Venezuela yet the tories are doing their best to turn Britain into a second world country.
‘Let’s tell public figures to stay out of politics when it doesn’t help us!’
‘Let’s tell public figure to move in to politics when it doesn’t help us if they stay out of politics.’
Now we have politicians telling people to have Christmas parties and telling scientists to stop telling people to not have Christmas parties, whilst all the while the politicians are cancelling their Christmas parties!
Clear as fecking mud!
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thousands of people will still vote tory today in shrophsire because they dont want free broadband, dont want the commies to steal their homes.
We are following the scientific advice...(only when they agree with us and to give us sometime else to blame when our stupid decisions go wrong).