And that is what is so frustrating. But, as history tells us, the electorate in England favour the Tories and not Labour. But there is no obvious logic as to why.
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
- Start date
And that is what is so frustrating. But, as history tells us, the electorate in England favour the Tories and not Labour. But there is no obvious logic as to why.
There's so many better ways to fund this - aside from the obvious "stop throwing money at fecking vanity projects in the South" argument. Raise inheritance tax, for starters. Stop letting bald feckers hoard billions just so they can saunter about saying "I'm the richest man in the world!".
The problem with all of the other options is that they're easy to hide from, whereas fecking over the average worker is easier.
The bare faced cheek of Boris saying this is needed for the NHS because of Covid. It's him and his party that have brought the NHS to it's fecking knees. And it'll apparently be shown on your tax bill as a "health and social care" tax, when we all know that not all of the money gained from is going to go near the NHS.
The problem with all of the other options is that they're easy to hide from, whereas fecking over the average worker is easier.
The bare faced cheek of Boris saying this is needed for the NHS because of Covid. It's him and his party that have brought the NHS to it's fecking knees. And it'll apparently be shown on your tax bill as a "health and social care" tax, when we all know that not all of the money gained from is going to go near the NHS.
They need to make it a different tax because people over the pension age do not pay NI whereas the plan is that - from 2023 when HMRC’s systems are updated - pensioners will have to pay this 1.25% tax on any employment income.
Employers National Insurance is paid at 13.8% regardless of salary (there are some exceptions for small businesses). This will go up by 1.25%.
Employee National Insurance is 12% on income above the earnings threshold, up to the higher rate band. This will also go up by 1.25%.
Higher rate taxpayers pay 2% NI on income above the higher rate band. This will also go up by 1.25%.
The upshot is that the wages of all employees (above the NI threshold) will attract an additional 2.5% in tax. The change is in effect neither progressive or regressive, but just pushing all tax bands up together.
Last edited:
You've just gotta laugh
If we were chickens, the British public would vote for Christmas.
What incentive do the Tories have to stop? None at all.
Are you really surprised? The narrative for a good year and a half has been support/applaud/finance/back the nhs. People aren’t going to turn around now and oppose something that’s being presented as benefiting the nhs.
Nope, i've been actively saying this country is full of idiots.
If I was a chicken I’d vote for Christmas, just to feck over all the turkeys.You've just gotta laugh
If we were chickens, the British public would vote for Christmas.
What incentive do the Tories have to stop? None at all.
Ah thats probably a cultural oversight on my part, my family only eat chicken & duck on christmas, I haven't eaten turkey since I was about 10
You knew what I meant though!
You've just gotta laugh
If we were chickens, the British public would vote for Christmas.
What incentive do the Tories have to stop? None at all.
It's the same trick as "£350m for the NHS". No difference.
You're both crazy, turkeys are for New Year's Day. Christmas you eat either lamb ribs or pork, everyone knows that.
He sees anyone whose actually impacted by his tax increase as essentially not worth keeping a promise to.
Leftovers, hangovers & regret are for new years day.
They'll keep getting away with it until the public wise up, which they wont.
Media coverage does have a big influence.
Is any tax actually regressive in policy? Genuine question, it's been many years since my A Level economics.
If a tax is by nature not progressive then by nature it hurts low earners with less disposable income most.
Edit: just refreshed myself on regressive tax, surely this is an example of one?
Further edit: everything I'm seeing on Google seems to agree it is regressive?
Yep, and if they do have a problem with it and grow to loathe the NHS for being propped up by their taxes it'll make it easier to sway the public into agreeing that privatisation is the only solution.
Council tax is regressive.
It is regressive given higher earners only pay 2% over £50k. They pay way less of their total pay as a % of earnings.
I was referring to the 2.5% change being neither progressive or regressive.
National insurance in isolation is regressive. It makes more sense to consider it alongside income tax though.
Then you don’t understand the proposal at all. It’s baseless, cruel, won’t work, and once again rewards the wealthy. It moves us further into worse terrain.
Uneducated folks in This country think that when ‘the rich get richer’ it includes them because they own property. They also think that because they own a house everyone can. My partner and I make ghastly sums that my parents could never dream of. We can’t afford to own something loveable. It’s horrific. I’m doing great. But why the Fcuk does anyone vote Tory? They’re disgusting ghouls on a personal enrichment program.
Fair enough. The cynical mindset behind this decision is a new level. I keep thinking that something has to give when the government keeps layering more and more shit on this country, but I'm not sure what, then realise they'll go up in the polls tomorrow regardless.
It’s like they’ve got the country in the political equivalent of a Chinese finger trap. The public that voted them in have argued themselves into a corner justifying their actions so many times that the more of this corrupt bullshit they pull, instead of turning on them and admitting their wrong, it only serves to force them to argue their case once again - entrenching them deeper into the Tory quagmire.
That sums up the Telegraph comment section I was just reading perfectly. They were variously arguing it was to pay for saving jobs through furlough, the NHS needed more on top of the £350m Brexit money a week (I'm certain plenty weren't joking) and using a hospital in Ireland costs you loads cos of the EU.
Contortionist level mental gymnastics.
The Tel column was slagging off the useless backbenchers for threatening to rebel then chickening out.
It does which is the real frustration.
But as I have mentioned, if enough people stopped consuming the media, that would have an effect. But we don't so it won't.
Media needs regulating. This, again would've happened under Labour, which partly contributed to the negative press coverage last election.
Why would the Tories regulate the media when they are in bed with them?
Yeah, exactly. They literally killed Leveson part 2 for media favours
Very important distinction about shows how narratives are formed.
I will be brutally honest. I am struggling for sympathy. Apathy is more like what I am feeling.
This country voted for the party that imposed over a decade of austerity(by choice) with the biggest majority in decades and will continue to vote for the said party.
This is the just the beginning, the true cost of the last 18 months on the UK taxpayer is going to be truly staggering; but surely everyone realised that when they had their feet up furloughed at home?
I'm on board with a political media blackout at this point.
Clueless question as always, what would be the other options to fund this shortfall other than the NI hike?
If you accept the government's premise that they need to raise around £12Bn a year in extra taxes, take your pick from the table below. Obviously, it's harder to get significant extra revenue from some taxes than others, and you need to take into account the behavioural impact of changes.
If my calculations are right, the marginal tax rate for some low income earners will be circa 40p for every £. Fecking hell!
For someone on Universal Credit, the taper rate once they exceed their Work Allowance is equivalent to a marginal tax rate of 75%.
Not sure that I understand how regulating would work, or would even be practical. Take the BBC for example. It has proved almost impossible to regulate it with scandal after scandal.
They are supposed to be accountable to the license payers. But are they really.
I accept that the media in general are part of the problem.
But it is a fact that you get the government you deserve.
And an apathetic electorate deserves an incompetent and immoral government which is exactly what we have and may well continue to have.
Well stop wasting billions would be a good start.
And if it were just 40% that would not be that bad. But take a few seconds to think about the multitude of other taxes you actually pay.
And when you have taken your last breath, remember that if you and your wife estate exceeds the inheritance tax threshold, whoever inherits it will be charged 40% whether you or they have been a high rate taxpayer or not. And that doesn't include Probate, which is yet another tax or capital gains tax.
40%+ is just for starters.
At every GE I vote against the Government, but it still keeps getting back in...!
Once the Government gets its hands on your money, however it explains it, via direct or indirect taxation, you have no say in how its spent.
My father use to tell me that and add.... " one day people will wake up to that fact".... still waiting dad (wherever you are now)!
Your father was quite right. But unfortunately, there are nothing like enough who even understand what is happening. And even less who care enough.
To your credit, I know that you do.
But how many of your friends and family do for example?
Whenever taxes are raised expenditure comes under more public scrutiny.
What should happen is Labour making sure all the dodgy Tory deals are highlighted, yet they won't.
Instead the public will be steered towards hating public sector pay rises and welfare. I predict in the next month or two we'll hear the "we can't give pay rises whilst asking the tax payer to pay more to save the NHS. We need to be prudent".
This is clearly terrible policy yet it'll embolden the Tories and be used against useless Labour.
What should happen is Labour making sure all the dodgy Tory deals are highlighted, yet they won't.
Instead the public will be steered towards hating public sector pay rises and welfare. I predict in the next month or two we'll hear the "we can't give pay rises whilst asking the tax payer to pay more to save the NHS. We need to be prudent".
This is clearly terrible policy yet it'll embolden the Tories and be used against useless Labour.