Do you think that the actions of Cummings has undermined the lockdown?
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
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Do you think that the actions of Cummings has undermined the lockdown?
Yes he is. I have absolutely no issue with people angered by that, but I do have an issue with them continuing to focus on that when more pressing things are at hand, I have an issue with them asking the same question SIX times instead of querying the government on the new guidance than will profoundly effect millions of people, and I have particular issue with people who seem to the integrity of our PM is more important than the safety of millions of extremely vulnerable people.
No.
Nobody is entitled to tell anybody what to ask, no matter how infuriating the line of questioning might be. If you don’t like their questioning then don’t buy their papers or watch their shows, etc. It’s the government’s job to inform the public, the media’s job to report news. If the government had done the right thing in the first place we wouldn’t be in this situation and the press would be asking different questions.
No I never said that did I, and I don’t think he even needed to resign. An apology and some ownership right at the start would have killed it.
But no, typical Tories, never admit fault, lie lie lie your way out.
And now just pretend it never happened.
Of course it has.
Especially amongst those who really, really do want to feel undermined.
If it wasn't this, it would be something else.
Cummings is a dickhead - not because of what he did, but because it's given all the Government's haters a stick to beat them with
No more entitled than the media or the public are to tell the PM to sack his aid. I don't buy their papers or watch their shows, no more than you voted for Boris. Bit of a baseless stance to take.
That’s probably why we’ve come to a different conclusion about the importance of what Cummings did. I’ve seen and heard of a lot of people who now view the lockdown as over. I’m sure you’ve heard and seen the same. When this came to light, they could have made a point about the importance of the guidelines, reinforcing the shared sacrifice in which we’re all going through. They didn’t though, they chose Dominic fecking Cummings over the people. They put him in front of cameras, and he brazenly lied to us. And now they want us to drop it. You argued that you didn’t see much merit about discussing the integrity of the PM and his posse. I think that’s the crux of the issue. We are continuously lied to by our government. How worried should we be about that? How easy should we make it?
I’m not quite sure your argument is a fair one either. Multiple questions can be asked, by holding the government to account over one incident doesn’t mean that nothing else can be asked.
Specifically because Cummings went to Durham? Forgive me if I find that unlikely. I imagine they believe the lockdown is over because of recent easing of measures. The irony of that of course is today was the perfect time for that confusion to be cleared. There was a very real opportunity to scrutinize the government on the vagueness of guidance and an opportunity to clarify it. That wasn't taken.
Multiple questions can be asked you're right. There was a finite amount of time to ask those questions and 6 of the 7 journalists chose to ask the SAME question after explicitly being told they would not entertain discussion on Cummings, this after a week of those same journalists asking those questions repeatedly.
I get it. As I've already stated, I think Cummings should have been sacked. But to genuinely think this matter is more important than discussing the new guidance, validating the numbers and information given, and scrutinising new and existing measures, shows to me that people are taking it about as seriously as those they (rightly) vilify.
I'm a parent of a CEV child. The answers given to questions on guidance have a profound impact on me and my family, and I rely on other people understanding that guidance in order to keep my child safe. So to have that time taken away in order to continue the Cummings debacle is a bit of a sore point. Those journalists would prefer to twist the knife than actually ask questions on an incredibly important statement.
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Not to pry, but how come you havent been furloughed?
You've got a point.
Ensuring government are answerable to media and public scrutiny is more important in the long term than any pandemic or emergency. Cummings has lied and broken the rules, the Tory government has shown blatant double standards by backing him and now want to bury the story and pass it off as some sort of media witchhunt. If that is allowed to happen you in Britain are no different to Trump and the tin pot dictatorship he has attempted to drag the US down into.
The very fact that there are other, more important things happening in Britain than Cummings taking his wife on a jolly for her birthday is precisely the reason not one of you should stand for him staying in his job. Not used as some perverse form of guilt trip, designed to shame those holding him accountable into silence.
They are shameful enough on their own. They don't need intelligent and reasonable members of the public doing their dirty work for them.
The very fact that there are other, more important things happening in Britain than Cummings taking his wife on a jolly for her birthday is precisely the reason not one of you should stand for him staying in his job. Not used as some perverse form of guilt trip, designed to shame those holding him accountable into silence.
They are shameful enough on their own. They don't need intelligent and reasonable members of the public doing their dirty work for them.
People trying to justify doing what they want because of the Cummings affair are as bad as him.
Of course they are as they will be doing the same thing he did but it was obvious that would happen which is why the governments response to this has been catastrophic. If they hadn’t responded like they have a lot less people would be so emboldened.
Oh yeah I agree. The government had a chance to unite the nation and Boris a golden opportunity to win over many of the people who he is trying to convince that the Tory's have changed and he is leading a party more in touch with the working class.
Epic fail on his part. Could have been a masterstroke.
I’m not saying you do or did, it was meant as a figure of speech.
I don’t agree with the sacking part, we’re all entitled to ask for the PM in this instance because somebody from the heart of Government broke the lockdown rules whilst the rest of the population have been struggling & making sacrifices to abide to those rules. (Well personally I don’t feel entitled to because we only have lockdown light here in the Netherlands. But the British public definitely are entitled to!)
Boris has a chance to have the hardest possible brexit and when the economy stalls it simply gets put down to covid
It will probably take a couple of years for the economy to recover... but that recovery is now because of brexit
And all those people loosing their jobs thats going be all covid nothing to do with a hard brexit... but any jobs that come back in the next couple of years... thats all brexit
And when the economy is in the toilet and nobody wants to come here... nah thats not the economy its the post brexit points based immigration system delivering the "will of the people"
There is plenty of time to cement their gains and I suspect cummings will be somewhere in the background churning out pithy 3 word slogans making out hes some kind of genius.
Have they really been giving out consistent information on key questions before the Cummings debacle?
NHS workers have been writing to PHE, MPs on vital questions not asked during debriefing and not getting answers.
If I was there I would have asked
- are we on course to meet the 200k target towards May?
- why has the chief coroner said the covid deaths for NHS staff will not consider PPE shortages?
- why is the track and trace service launching without the app? what about the security flaws? have they focus grouped how widely it will be utilised and if not doesn't that defeat the purpose?
- with the Cummings scenario have they really thought about how it will affect their credibility when they tell people about what their "civic duty"
- what about the independent SAGE group's advice and the BMA who've advised against school reopening and will we revert back to lockdown if the R0 gets more than 1 or will there be enough sociopolitical will to curtail back on freedoms again?
- when will the CEV groups who are socially shielding get a letter to say how long if at all they have to shield beyond 30th June and shouldn't this be looked at now to facilitate planning for work etc.
Plenty plenty more. The key thing is that we have been asking these questions, sending them in, tweeting them without a proper answer on critical questions but have never received satisfactory answers on a lot of things. What they could do is allow along with the one or two layperson or public questions to allow doctors to ask questions to, but they haven't.
I do not believe that any of the Cumming's questions have been illegitimate though nor do I think there should be a let up in journalists asking them either. Its not mutually exclusive. Would be nice for the debriefing to not be rushed and also the fact that questions are still being asked is because of the evasive, non-sensical answers given for most of the rest.
I've had similar childcare issues that would have been solved had I commuted from the midlands to London but I'm being accused of being a bad parent for following guidelines and insulting being told I didn't understand them in the first place.
It is perfectly reasonable to ask for example Sir Patrick Vallance's and Prof Whitty's take on this, I don't get the whole stay-away-from-politics thing, the whole of COVID is political. The question of if it’s okay to travel 60 miles round trip with symptoms of COVID 19, to test your eyes pre-driving is not political, physicians are well aware of matters relating to fitness to drive. Presumably if they had no objection to what Mr Cummings did they shouldn't be gagged and government should be happy for them to face questions and say so?
I don't have a gripe with Boris being called to account for the Cummings debacle. It's inexcusable the way he has tried to justify it. The media have rightly focussed on it. But we already knew he wasn't going to entertain any further questions on the matter. I could forgive it being asked the first time. But it was asked six times. Boris just announced some pretty significant changes in guidance. Could they really not think of a question to ask relating to that? Do they genuinely think asking a question they know they won't get an answer to, and a question three/four/five journalists have already asked before them without success is a more prudent use of their limited time?
It shouldn't be. Anyone using COVID for political maneuvering should be ashamed of themselves. By all means, scrutinise, highlight failings and lambast the government when it's justified, but as soon as it becomes an obstacle to treatment, which I think it does when it clogs our modes of relating information, it should stop.
Precisely. Wouldn't it be more beneficial to you if additional coverage was dedicated to actually educating the public on the guidance, and then using those precious Q&A sessions to sharpen the soft edges, question the new guidance, and highlight what isn't working?
Face it you people it won't make a difference. Cummings is more secretive than the Illuminati. He'll forever be working in the shadows. A ghost. His name doesn't come up online because it gets blocked for sounding porny. This is our era of internet censorship. Stay indoors? Lock your doors. The small face man cometh.
But, seriously, the only thing I can think of that we'll get from him being sacked is that it'll be embarrassing for him. He'll still make his money. But at least his name can get trashed.
But, seriously, the only thing I can think of that we'll get from him being sacked is that it'll be embarrassing for him. He'll still make his money. But at least his name can get trashed.
The alternative is the Government getting off scot free once again and the normalisation of their awful behaviour continues. This time the original offence might be relatively minor, next time it could be more serious and they once again take this gaslighting approach. I’ve got absolutely no problem with the press sustaining their pressure on this, it’s the most important function of a free press and it would have been a travesty if they did what Johnson and Cummings were hoping they would do and just shrugged and moved on.
@ivaldo
I don’t think it’s a case of Cummings and his flight of fancy being important.
It crossed a line. People have let so much go. This was a slam dunk, open and shut case for the government.
When that was taken away, everything else comes back out. Care homes, PPE, shutting down scientists, and and and.
I feel for you and your personal situation. But please know that it’s not just yapping dogs looking for a head on a pike and a story. The people holding the government to account on something that seems trivial to you.... Is still someone fighting for you and your child.
How can you trust this government to look after you and your at risk child, when they’ve got so much wrong? They’ve got almost EVERYTHING wrong. They cannot be allowed to lie.
Refusing to let Boris silence journalists and not letting him obfuscate anything prickly is helpful to all.
I don’t think it’s a case of Cummings and his flight of fancy being important.
It crossed a line. People have let so much go. This was a slam dunk, open and shut case for the government.
When that was taken away, everything else comes back out. Care homes, PPE, shutting down scientists, and and and.
I feel for you and your personal situation. But please know that it’s not just yapping dogs looking for a head on a pike and a story. The people holding the government to account on something that seems trivial to you.... Is still someone fighting for you and your child.
How can you trust this government to look after you and your at risk child, when they’ve got so much wrong? They’ve got almost EVERYTHING wrong. They cannot be allowed to lie.
Refusing to let Boris silence journalists and not letting him obfuscate anything prickly is helpful to all.
Sure ??
Alsitair Campbell is now on TV and in the press more than ever and probably making more money than ever.
Complete disgrace doesn't seem to have had any effect on him other than good effect.
What's that got to do with the price of cheese?
You know, since you and I are apparently descending into whataboutism.
Sorry....Just pointing out that getting your name trashed is bad for a week or two but does wonders for the next 20 years....
It is not a "mobs anger". It is the general public outraged by the disdain shown for them by their government. In this case the media are actually aligned with public opinion.
If the government are not following their own advice and lying to cover up their indiscretions, the public are less likely to follow advice and trust what they are being told.
If Cummings was sacked immediately and lies had not been spun to sign the hole deeper then trust could have been restored.
Ah, apologies. I'm hardly on the ball in my good days and today I'm even worse.
I disagree. The only tool we have when holding these people to account, who create laws that they themselves don't (intend to) follow is embarrassing them to such an extent that either a) other rulers won't do the same later on or b) the law will be changed as it's too draconian in the first place for them or others to follow.
It's not a question of what Cummings did in my view, which incidentally to me was about a 0.5 out of 10 on the scale of what MP's do that takes the piss every year. If an MP goes 40 in a 30 they should be embarrassed into quitting, not because it's particularly bad but because if they can't even follow the laws they create and enforce, then clearly the laws need changing to make them easier for all of us to comply with.
The fact that Cummings himself said that he was in favour of a harsh lockdown, using it as some form of shield to accusations, is even worse. If he'd said "in truth I heard all the science and advocated aggressively for a Sweden style non-lockdown", I'd be less bothered as to his actions as at least he was practicing what he preached (if he'd have resigned over the lockdown decision in that scenario he'd have my respect)
It isn't about Cummings, it's about ardently ensuring that those that create and enforce laws aren't above them, as the second they believe they are we're likely to see government use this power to selectively punish those they want silenced, without fear of recrimination themselves.
/Edit @Pexbo succinctly beat me to it
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Honestly asking, what difference does it make who owns it?
It really depends on what the true function of the house is. If it turns out that Cummings parents actually don’t live there most of the time and like Cummings use it as a second home then it changes the context fairly drastically and once again Cummings would have been caught out lying to the country as he claimed he went to stay in an out building of his fathers farm. It’s an abjectly false statement if he actually went to stay at his own second home.
People's champions The Spectator are going with 'Boris isn't fit to lead'.
I think thats guaranteed now for a while amongst a lot of people, no matter what happens next.
Stevie Wonder
Bloody lefty campaigners at the Spectator. Everyone knows that.
I really wish I hadn't seen that picture of Cummings as a Page 3 girl...it's like something from Mars Attacks!
I've seen hundreds of photos of him in recent weeks and only noticed he has a lazy eye because those tits confused me