Cummings travelled to a second home after his wife displayed Covid-19 symptoms. Blackford travelled to his actual home from London in order to self-isolate without any symptoms or reason to suspect he had it in order to safeguard his wife who is in the at-risk category. They are incomparable. Blackford travelled from work (London) to home (Skye) without symptoms - please tell me how that breaks the guidelines.
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
- Start date
Cummings travelled to a second home after his wife displayed Covid-19 symptoms. Blackford travelled to his actual home from London in order to self-isolate without any symptoms or reason to suspect he had it in order to safeguard his wife who is in the at-risk category. They are incomparable. Blackford travelled from work (London) to home (Skye) without symptoms - please tell me how that breaks the guidelines.
There isn't a mistake and Guardian and Tel both have the same tbf.
'Durham Police have concluded there might have been a minor breach.'
https://www.google.com/search?q=dur...i61l2j69i60.1492j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
I don't believe that Laura K is truly biased towards the Conservatives - I think, rather, that she's friends with Boris and co. and this affects her reporting. Plus, of course, she's extremely keen to stay onside with her source(s).
It’s not a mistake per se but it is misleading, that’s the point the legal experts seem to be making. The conclusion is Cummings did breach the guidelines, the ‘might’ refers to what action would have been taken. So saying Cummings ‘might’ have broken the rules is not true as Laura’s tweet says, Durham Police have concluded that he did. No ‘might’ about it.
I don't think it's misleading and given the Guardian and telegraph are reporting it the same way, it's wrong to single Laura K out for this one. It's saying the going to self-isolate might have been a minor breach and if a police officer had spoken to Cummings re Barnard Castle they'd have 'likely' told him to go home. It's very weak wording from the police and certainly no smoking gun.
I think people are getting a bit desperate with the Laura K bashing on this story.
True to a point, but she seems ideologically hostile to left-wing politics. Chief example being the claim that Corbyn made the ‘political compass wonky’ (whatever the feck that means) and that it was a bad thing for British politics. No mention of what effect Johnson cuddling up with Cummings and pursuing a hard Brexit and sacking numerous moderate Tory MPs such as Ken Clarke had on this ‘compass’.
Let’s not let debate over a word suck the air out of the room.
Durham police are only commenting on events in Durham.
The bald cnut drove Coronavirus from London to Durham. He lied about his eyesight. He lied about the purpose of the trip. He lied about EVERYTHING. He broke all of the rules. So did she. She wrote a column abo being locked down in London. Narrowing criticism down to whether his invented story Broke the rules in Durham is inane.
It’s obfuscation. Eye on the prize folks. They are a pair of terrible humans.
Well if the people with experience of the law are adamant it’s misleading to use the ‘might’ in the statement to refer to whether or not he broke the rules when they say the statement is in no doubt that he did, I’ll defer to their viewpoint seen as neither you or I are legal experts.
As for it being a ‘weak’ statement and ‘no smoking gun’, that’s beside the point. There was no police action in the other two high-profile resignations. Nobody is saying Cummings committed a crime that merits strong police action. The point is a precedent has been set for leading figures who break the guidelines they helped to set to resign. He has not even apologised and refused to acknowledge any wrongdoing. Now we have Durham Police confirming he did (not ‘might’ have done) breach guidelines visiting Barnard Castle. That is hugely significant, as the legal opinion now officially contradicts that of No. 10.
Cant imagine the nefarious influencing tactics senior Tory's have used with the Police on this.
I'm sure Durham police have been blackmailed and coerced into writing this statement in its weakest form.
@TheReligion
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Rereading, I can see where they are coming from, it's just such hedged language. They don't directly say it's a breach- it hinges on the fact that he'd have been told to go home and if he adhered to that, no enforcement action would have been taken, ie it implies he was in breach.
As evidence goes, it's likely too caveated to resonate with the wider public and Durham Police looking like clowns or puppets, depending on your view, doesn't help either.
He was already in his London home - sorry, Tax Payer paid for London Home -and two days after Lockdown started, chose to leave his wife in his Tax Payer paid for London home - and fly / drive / ferry / whatever - to another home 600 miles away.
Anyone with half a brain would probably figure out that by following the STAY AT HOME message from the government two days earlier, he'd have been safer in his London home than his home on the Isle of Skye which is about 150 miles from the nearest ICU. Fortunately for him, if he'd left just 48 hours later he probably would have seen the large STAY OUT OF SCOTLAND signs by the roadside to encourage people NOT to go to their second homes in Scotland in order to spend a more genteel, pleasant period of Lockdown.
Two wrongs don't make a right, of course, but it confirms what everyone has been saying is absolutely correct - one law for politicians and another one for the rest of us. And that all politiciands are arseholes when you scratch the surface.
And right / wrong, in these two cases, depends entirely on your personal interpretation of events.
I'm not sure 'man goes back to primary residence' is really the comparable scandal you think it is.
That exactly defines her bias.
Even using public opinion he should go since the majority thing he should be sacked. But we all know that when Boris said "it's up to the public" what he meant was "it's up to the public whether they like it or not, but it won't change my mind".
Strange that his Mrs wasn't already at his primary residence. Maybe it isn't his primary residence after all.
But Tax Payer paid for second homes for MPs is something else, of course....
I don't think it's a scandal....I'm simply trying to point out the stupidity of a politician who's been screaming for Cummings to be sacked yet did more or less the same thing himself - only difference appears to be he didn't have his wife with him when he did it.
No one really expected the police to take retrospective action on this did they? It would go against the spirit in which the regulations are being enforced in and irrespective of your personal thoughts on Cummings would not be appropriate. I think it's clear the regulations were broken and Durham Constabulary say as much when describing the Barnard Castle incident.
I don't think the government will be happy with the police statement as adds more pressure to the Cummings resignation.
I don't think the government will be happy with the police statement as adds more pressure to the Cummings resignation.
He doesn't look brown or white at all. More of a grey colour tbh.This guy:
Boris now muzzling health officials from commenting on medical matters related to Cummings affair.
How do people feel about that: Fair or not?
How do people feel about that: Fair or not?
Obviously not fair as while it is a political question it also undeniably pertains to public health too. It's important because there is a clear divide between public opinion (and that of Durham Police after today) and the government on what is acceptable as per the guidelines, reflected in the differing opinions on the Cummings' transgressions. It's vital that it is cleared up to remove any source of confusion and to prevent any possible discontent with adhering to the guidelines from spreading.
Clearly they don't want to be drawn into the political shitstorm.
That's 6/7 journalists asking a question on Cummings. They're given a platform to ask a question on the back of some major announcements. It's damning that the questions asked by the public brought more informative answers than those of the media. They're supposed to report the news, not create it.
Genuine question. Do you think the action of Cummings is the most important thing to be discussed at this time? Does it matter THAT much?
The medical officials are just there as window dressings to give scientific weight to Boris's proclamations, he would like to minimize them actually talking in case they contradict his guff. They got dangerously close already by mentioning that the R value wasn't dropping as fast as they hoped after Boris had relaxed lockdown further and gone on about how great everything was
If they had any spine, they'd refuse to be allowed to be used like this
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For me, yes. Every time Boris or his cabinet now say something, I feel tension rise up my back into my head. I absorb the information through the cloud of feeling aggrieved and so don't feel willing to 'take one for the team' when his advisor is let off. Perhaps that's nor rational, but this issue is entirely emotional; as has been stated, people complaining feel like mugs.
For me, this is blowing up to Blair 'dodgy dossier' defining moment status: despite Blair being my hero in those days, I was never able to see him or his future actions in the same feelings ever again.
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How can anybody take them seriously now? When they tell you to do something and they don't do it themselves, with no repercussions. Its massive hypocrisy. People will not listen anymore.
So, in the face of hundreds of people dying every day in the UK due to Covid-19, Dominic Cummings' car journey to Durham is the most important thing on your agenda? You don't feel you have a societal and moral responsibility to ensure the safety of civilians because the PM's adviser got away with breaking the rules? Seriously?
FYI I think Cummings should be sacked, but anyone who continues to consider this some vile social injustice that needs to take precedence over ensuring the safety of those seriously at risk, are doing so only because it helps their own political views. As a parent of a CEV child, anyone who uses this as a reason to flagrantly ignore social distancing guidance is a ignorant prig.
The media had an opportunity to ask for elaboration and clarification on some very important statements today. They had the opportunity to ask the PM's chief medical advisers absolutely anything on COVID-19, on what the government is doing and how they're doing it, but instead they want to focus on a scandal because it sells more papers and garners more clicks.
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No the act itself isn’t that big of a deal.
The constant lying, gaslighting, and dodging is a big deal though. This could have been nipped in the bud ages ago but they just have to keep digging that hole.
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Protective ring?
Oh absolutely, for me there is little doubt that Cummings incident is the single most damaging thing to have happened to BoJo and his government whatever way you look at it - going against public opinion, undermining authority of the PM, contradicting your own recommendations. It not only shows deep hypocrisy of Johnson and his team (this would not be that important) but I think it also has profound effect on how British public will approach government's advice now.
The fact that Cummings was straight up lying on that conference and that the PM and his cabinet are going to extreme lengths and are willing to look like fools in defending their advisor makes it extremely important for the media.
Sacking Cummings wouldn't have abated the mobs anger.
So you agree then that it's more important to ask questions about Cummings than it is to ask the PM and his chief medical advisers to elaborate and clarify the statements and new guidance laid out today? That it's more important to pressure the PM on this than it is to ask the questions that could quite feasibly save lives?
Our Government has had the chance all week to unify the nation behind them.
We’ve ended up at a place where we are all entitled to our own discretionary opinion, so I respect yours. If you have a complaint about others, take that up with the Government.
Also I don’t agree with you at all on your last paragraph.
So again, its more important to grill the PM on that than it is to clarify the new procedures, ease the anxiety and concerns, and ask questions that could literally save the lives? feck me.
I think it’s the straw that broke the back though. This government has kept lying to us, and they never face repercussions. This incident has completely undermined what they’re doing. They would rather compromise lives over admitting fault, being transparent and sacking Cummings. They want us to move on. They lie, they get exposed, and then in a week it’s forgotten.
Why not do both?
You're not going to comment on your statement that you're willing to knowingly endanger the lives of others because the PM's adviser hasn't been sacked?
Is it really one or another? Even if today or yesterday they could have asked some more precise questions, don't you think the bigger issue here is that the government has lost its credibility and in fact conceded the fight of looking reasonable and honest in the eyes of many millions of people? That has to have a huge impact on how anxious society is and in my eyes few more detailed questions about procedures of easing the lockdown would not help the public in dealing with current crisis.
You mean, the same way the media are willing to compromise lives of innocent people in order to grill the PM on his dickhead of am adviser.
They only got a short time to ask questions. 6 of them decided to ask the same question instead of gathering vital information.
I've lost my car and my job. My mental health has taken a battering, but we've all gone along with it and made sacrifices for the greater good. In the meantime the people in power are doing whatever they want with no repercussions.
Why should i listen to hypocrites? This virus has caused more harm for my finances and general well-being than it would of done if i actually caught it.
We should move on, but the PM is further causing distraction by a) not sacking his advisor and b) dodging questions from the media. The government have brought this upon themselves.
No matter how much scum large part of the UK’s media are, it’s not their responsibility to run the country. It’s their job to report & investigate news.
As long as Cummings remains he’s undermining the Government’s Covid guidelines and distracting from what really matters. If it wasn’t for Covid I wouldn’t mind Cummings staying, because by doing so he’s wounding the Government the more this goes on.
No. Sharing as much information and guidance as possible is the bigger issue. Call me old fashioned, but the PMs integrity here pales in comparison to saving lives. We know he isn't going to answer questions on Cummings, but instead of using that time more wisely, the media pisses it away asking the same question anyway. They'll be the first ones to complain when some parts of the guidance aren't as clear as they like, despite them choosing to pass on the opportunity to actually
Those ITV revelations are scandalous but most people fully suspected that had been government policy all along. We not only have the highest toll of excess deaths in the world, we deliberately deprived care home patients of access to hospital and returned them to homes knowing they had the virus but without making anyone aware. That alone should be enough in any functioning democracy with an accountable government to bring them down.
And I have enormous empathy for you. Now, as a parent of one of the 1m CEV people in the UK, catching this disease will do more than effect my finances and well being, it could kill my 2 year old child. So forgive me if I think the precious little time afforded to the media should be used productively.