Westminster Politics

Kag said:
The impact of austerity is objectively undeniable and the failure to effectively roll out Universal Credit has contributed to deaths throughout the UK. Public services have been slashed for a period of ten years and the statistics (whether it be mental health, education, NHS targets or housing) all confirm the devastating effect they have had.

That’s the real world, I’m afraid. Perhaps it’s you who should try seeing some more of it. Far too many people (somewhat understandably) live in their little bubble; it’s blissful ignorance.
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''Modern Society''

The government has suffered a humiliating court defeat after it was found to have unlawfully discriminated against thousands of severely disabled people who were left financially worse off after moving on to universal credit.

The court of appeal dismissed a challenge by the Department for Work and Pensions to two previous high court decisions that protected claimants in receipt of severe disability premium against a drop in income under the new benefit.

The cases were brought by two disabled individuals, known as TP and AR, who had sought justice after their benefit income was reduced by £180 a month when they were required to claim universal credit after moving house into a different local authority area.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...t-of-severely-disabled?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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CassiusClaymore said:
Yeah couldn't give a stuff either. I'd like to envisage a future whereby when someone calls the council to moan about something you can answer "Can i ask who you voted for? Oh the Tories, go feck yourself then."
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The problem is some of these places when seeing the effects of cuts tend to blame Labour councils, instead of the government. There's such a massive disconnect between people hating cuts to services and blaming the government(There's literally a poster on this page who blames ''modern society'' for the cuts to disable benefits).

Granted this is purely anecdotal but the amount times during the last election I heard stories about people having no idea that Boris had being tory mp for a number of years and not a Trump like ''outsider'' and that it is in fact the tories who are in government, was very worrying.
 
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Sweet Square said:
''Modern Society''





The problem is some of these places when seeing the effects of cuts tend to blame Labour councils, instead of the government. There's such a massive disconnect between people hating cuts to services and blaming the government(There's literally a poster on this page who blames ''modern society'' for the cuts to disable benefits).

Granted this is purely anecdotal but the amount times during the last election I heard stories about people having no idea that Boris had being tory mp for a number of years and not a Trump like ''outsider'' and that it is in fact the tories who are in government, was very worrying.
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Yes I know. I posted somewhere about my imbecile of a brother who blames Labour for the food bank crisis. Common sense left the building a long time ago. People now just bend the facts to fit their own point of view.
 
You prefer I say First World Countries rather than Modern Society ?

I spent most of the last 20odd years working in West Africa. Still go quite frequently as we employ about 200 people there.

Who do you think looks after the sick and the elderly in Nigeria or Angola ? Where there are no DWP or Social Security or Wefare System equivalents in those countries or in all the African countries where I've worked. Compassionate and enlightened employers apart, nobody does. The elderly, the sick, the unemployed and unemployable are helped by family and friends and charities. Not the State. In fact, almost anyone but the State.

So perhaps you're right - occasional failures in the the DWP, cut backs in Local Government spending, increased waiting times at NHS Hospitals, are actually a First World problem. Like poor broadband in your neighbourhood or the Air Conditioning in your house not working very well. They're all things to bitch about because so much else is taken for granted in First World countries and so I'm going to let rip when they're not perfect.

Of course, alternatively you could go live in a Third World country and all these problems , and your anger against the Tories, would actually seem fairly pathetic.

Yes, you're right and I was wrong. It's not Modern Society causing problems - it all depends where you live and your levels of expectation.
 
Full bodied red said:
You prefer I say First World Countries rather than Modern Society ?

I spent most of the last 20odd years working in West Africa. Still go quite frequently as we employ about 200 people there.

Who do you think looks after the sick and the elderly in Nigeria or Angola ? Where there are no DWP or Social Security or Wefare System equivalents in those countries or in all the African countries where I've worked. Compassionate and enlightened employers apart, nobody does. The elderly, the sick, the unemployed and unemployable are helped by family and friends and charities. Not the State. In fact, almost anyone but the State.

So perhaps you're right - occasional failures in the the DWP, cut backs in Local Government spending, increased waiting times at NHS Hospitals, are actually a First World problem. Like poor broadband in your neighbourhood or the Air Conditioning in your house not working very well. They're all things to bitch about because so much else is taken for granted in First World countries and so I'm going to let rip when they're not perfect.

Of course, alternatively you could go live in a Third World country and all these problems , and your anger against the Tories, would actually seem fairly pathetic.

Yes, you're right and I was wrong. It's not Modern Society causing problems - it all depends where you live and your levels of expectation.
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Hold on are you really going to have a go at me for being a socialist and then say the effects of capitalism on the global south is a reason to not give a shit about disable people in Britain ?

Just to show how awful your argument is, its the 1700's and I turn to you and say - ''I'm pretty sure the child labour we have is awful and needs to go'' and then you say - ''Well actually I've just spent 20 odd years in America and if you think child labour is bad, they have people as literally slaves. So you're anger towards child labour seem fairly pathetic''.

The awful suffering in the global south isn't justification to ignore the suffering in the west but hey you know whats brilliant about the ''Loony Leftie'' ? You don't have to chose between helping the global south and helping the west, we can do both. So for example we can stop the selling of weapons that get used in the bombing of Yemen and also get rid of the DWP. What a great idea if you actually care about these things, which brings us back to the original point - You don't, you're arguments are just desperate attempts to argue against trying to change things. Its pure nihilism and actually its pretty dull as well.
 
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Let's make a diary note to discuss this again when you've ( 1 ) lived in Third World countries and ( 2 ) are then able to understand how real life works.

Up to you - in six months, six years, when you're in your 50s ??
 
Full bodied red said:
You prefer I say First World Countries rather than Modern Society ?

I spent most of the last 20odd years working in West Africa. Still go quite frequently as we employ about 200 people there.

Who do you think looks after the sick and the elderly in Nigeria or Angola ? Where there are no DWP or Social Security or Wefare System equivalents in those countries or in all the African countries where I've worked. Compassionate and enlightened employers apart, nobody does. The elderly, the sick, the unemployed and unemployable are helped by family and friends and charities. Not the State. In fact, almost anyone but the State.

So perhaps you're right - occasional failures in the the DWP, cut backs in Local Government spending, increased waiting times at NHS Hospitals, are actually a First World problem. Like poor broadband in your neighbourhood or the Air Conditioning in your house not working very well. They're all things to bitch about because so much else is taken for granted in First World countries and so I'm going to let rip when they're not perfect.

Of course, alternatively you could go live in a Third World country and all these problems , and your anger against the Tories, would actually seem fairly pathetic.

Yes, you're right and I was wrong. It's not Modern Society causing problems - it all depends where you live and your levels of expectation.
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Pro-tip. If your argument has to rely on "we're not as worse off as other people so stop complaining" then you've already lost.

We're lucky that we have a system in place that allows us to pay into a safety net for ourselves and others. You don't get to turn around and say "tough shit you're on your own" whilst we're paying into it. This is the democracy that we've signed up for in this country and comparisons to other nations mean didly squat.
 
Full bodied red said:
Hardly a rant.

At some point in life, everyone has to take some responsibilty for their family, their friends or those others close to them. Whether the young, the old, the sick, the unemployed, the unfortunates....

It's been more or less like that for thousands of years and remains like that, still, for most people in this world.

The trouble is that in many countries, the younger generations now either don't want to or can't be bothered

You can't just hand over responsibility for the elderly and sick to the state - if every family in the UK did this, then the UK would have thousands of events like this one every week. They wouldn't make headlines and the problem you argue would become even worse because the ' system ' just couldn't cope.

Harsh, but true.
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You most certainly can and must for those in need.
 
Full bodied red said:
Hardly a rant.

At some point in life, everyone has to take some responsibilty for their family, their friends or those others close to them. Whether the young, the old, the sick, the unemployed, the unfortunates....

It's been more or less like that for thousands of years and remains like that, still, for most people in this world.

The trouble is that in many countries, the younger generations now either don't want to or can't be bothered

You can't just hand over responsibility for the elderly and sick to the state - if every family in the UK did this, then the UK would have thousands of events like this one every week. They wouldn't make headlines and the problem you argue would become even worse because the ' system ' just couldn't cope.

Harsh, but true.
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Well, yes, but that's a bad thing. Are you suggesting that you actually want the world to be like that?
 
Full bodied red said:
Let's make a diary note to discuss this again when you've ( 1 ) lived in Third World countries and ( 2 ) are then able to understand how real life works.

Up to you - in six months, six years, when you're in your 50s ??
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If people like you were in charge we'd never make progress.
 
Full bodied red said:
Hardly a rant.

At some point in life, everyone has to take some responsibilty for their family, their friends or those others close to them. Whether the young, the old, the sick, the unemployed, the unfortunates....

It's been more or less like that for thousands of years and remains like that, still, for most people in this world.

The trouble is that in many countries, the younger generations now either don't want to or can't be bothered

You can't just hand over responsibility for the elderly and sick to the state - if every family in the UK did this, then the UK would have thousands of events like this one every week. They wouldn't make headlines and the problem you argue would become even worse because the ' system ' just couldn't cope.

Harsh, but true.
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Well said
 
I am Nigerian. Born and raised there.
I don't think "first world' countries should be comparing themselves with third world countries.
Saying a generation is lazy or whatever cause young people in Nigeria have to take care of their parents doesn't make sense to me.
It's like that in Nigeria cause of the total failure of the political system to provide anything for its citizens. It shouldn't be like that.
It is nothing to be proud of.
 
Wonder if there will be a cabinet reshuffle and it's ridiculous that its not until April that we get a new Labour leader
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...sts-boycott-no-10-briefing-after-reporter-ban

Political journalists boycott No 10 briefing after reporter ban

The walkout took place after a confrontation inside No 10 in which Lee Cain, Johnson’s most senior communications adviser, tried to exclude reporters from the Mirror, i, HuffPost, PoliticsHome, Independent and others.

Reporters on the invited list were asked to stand on one side of a rug in the foyer of No 10, while those not allowed in were asked by security to stand on the other side.

After Cain told the banned journalists to leave, the rest of the journalists decided to walk out collectively rather than allow Downing Street to choose who scrutinises and reports on the government.


Among those who refused the briefing and walked out were the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg, ITV’s Robert Peston and political journalists from Sky News, the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Sun, Financial Times and Guardian.
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horsechoker said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...sts-boycott-no-10-briefing-after-reporter-ban

Political journalists boycott No 10 briefing after reporter ban
The walkout took place after a confrontation inside No 10 in which Lee Cain, Johnson’s most senior communications adviser, tried to exclude reporters from the Mirror, i, HuffPost, PoliticsHome, Independent and others.

Reporters on the invited list were asked to stand on one side of a rug in the foyer of No 10, while those not allowed in were asked by security to stand on the other side.

After Cain told the banned journalists to leave, the rest of the journalists decided to walk out collectively rather than allow Downing Street to choose who scrutinises and reports on the government.


Among those who refused the briefing and walked out were the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg, ITV’s Robert Peston and political journalists from Sky News, the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Sun, Financial Times and Guardian.
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Must've malfunctioned.
 
The pattern is the same as Trump .Try and shut out the media .Surprised that Sky News , The Mail, Laura Kuenssberg walked out ,but it shows a solidarity which you don't see in the US.
 
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Drifter said:
The pattern is the same as Trump .Try and shut out the media .Surprised that Sky News , The Mail, Laura Kuenssberg walked out ,but it shows a solidarity which you don't see in the US.
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Shame they didn't show that same solidarity when it was just The Mirror that it happened to during the election campaign.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
I assume they communicate entirely in the native language of any country that they ever visit.
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Bilingualism should be encouraged. We seem to be averse to it in the UK. When I went travelling I was amazed how many language different nationalities could speak. Often 2, but usually 3 or 4.
 
esmufc07 said:
I find this a very odd thing to feel uncomfortable about

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The question is designed to generate headlines by being too general and not adding any context to someone feeling uncomfortable. I really couldn't give a monkeys what language people choose to converse in in public or private and you should be able to do so without any ill feeling. However, it did bother me when I worked at a place staffed entirely by Polish workers who spoke exclusively in their native language. I wasn't resentful at them, I mean it's completely understandable that they would speak their language, but at the same time it meant I didn't really feel part of the team. I liked most of them individually but when you can't join in in group chats it's a bit isolating. Or maybe they just thought I was a cnut.
 
Sweet Square said:
Basically sums up every political conversation I've had with tories over the last 5 years.

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Seems like a lot of Caf talks as well.

"What you're saying is rubbish....."

fifteen pages later

"omg guys stop abusing me I'm the victim here and I've been nothing but polite this entire time waaaaahhhhh...."
 
esmufc07 said:
Blakeley is a massive cock tbf.
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She most certainly comes across as a bit of an idiot whenever I see her posts online, and from what I read of the issue they're discussing it isn't a problem of austerity, so it does feel a bit like she's shoehorning in different argument just for the sake of returning to a familiar topic.

On the other hand, Dale's response seems way over the top for what seems to be a pretty minor disagreement on air. He definitely comes over as overly-sensitive.
 
esmufc07 said:
You think she comes across well?
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She doesn't come across as anything! Dale walked out after like 5 seconds of being talked over. For someone who is very critical of snowflakes, he doesn't come across well here at all.
 
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