Westminster Politics

More food for thought about what the Labour defeat means from Paul Mason.

 
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This is going to happen, maybe the only use in pointing it out is to create a separate edia ecosystem for leftists.

The most ideal situation would be if Corbyn somehow was dead, otherwise he will weight down the left for a decade or so. I have no idea what RLB was thinking praising him. He is less popular than a paedophile. Momentum should hit him for incompetent leadership, he's too timid to hit back.
 
This is going to happen, maybe the only use in pointing it out is to create a separate edia ecosystem for leftists.
Pretty much.

The most ideal situation would be if Corbyn somehow was dead, otherwise he will weight down the left for a decade or so. I have no idea what RLB was thinking praising him. He is less popular than a paedophile. Momentum should hit him for incompetent leadership, he's too timid to hit back.
It was silly to give him a 10/10 but at the same time, if she slags him off then the press would have just asked why the hell is she running on a similar platform. RLB answer was awful but there never a good one to give.

I'm not too worried about Corbyn weighing down the left or the labour party, Blair hasn't been involved in British politics for over a decade and there are still people who still won't vote Labour because of his time in office(These people are always right wingers who hated that immigration existed under New Labour). Anyone still hating Labour for Corbyn reasons, years after he left the position of leader is a lost cause.
 
Pretty much.


It was silly to give him a 10/10 but at the same time, if she slags him off then the press would have just asked why the hell is she running on a similar platform. RLB answer was awful but there never a good one to give.

I'm not too worried about Corbyn weighing down the left or the labour party, Blair hasn't been involved in British politics for over a decade and there are still people who still won't vote Labour because of his time in office(These people are always right wingers who hated that immigration existed under New Labour). Anyone still hating Labour for Corbyn reasons, years after he left the position of leader is a lost cause.

"We have a popular platform, as polling and feedback tells us, but our leadership was unable to spread this message and instead fought the election on the opposition's terms."
I don't live there but uhhh I stare at a lot of polling and I think Corbyn hate is underestimated. Maybe 15 years later you can go to Corbyn videos and the comments will be like Tony Benn vids - "I'm a Tory but what a principled man", "the best PM we never had" while in reality, when he was active, Benn was despised.
 
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"We have a popular platform, as polling and feedback tells us, but our leadership was unable to spread this message and instead fought the election on the oppositions' terms."
She did something somewhat similar in a Sky Interview this morning



She is also running in a leadership election where Corbyn won the last two massively, so I'm not sure how popular it would be with labour members to slag off Corbyn(Although knowing how bad Corbyn polls, there might be some polling showing Labour members now hate him).

I don't live there but uhhh I stare at a lot of polling and I think Corbyn hate is underestimated. Maybe 15 years later you can go to Corbyn videos and the comments will be like Tony Benn vids - "I'm a Tory but what a principled man", "the best PM we never had" while in reality, when he was active, Benn was despised.
No left wing politician running for PM will be liked by the public. If RLB wins the leadership race then I'm certain in the next election she will be going into it being massively disliked by the British public(The same applies to any labour leader who isn't related to the Murdoch Family).
 
She did something somewhat similar in a Sky Interview this morning



She is also running in a leadership election where Corbyn won the last two massively, so I'm not sure how popular it would be with labour members to slag off Corbyn(Although knowing how bad Corbyn polls, there might be some polling showing Labour members now hate him).


No left wing politician running for PM will be liked by the public. If RLB wins the leadership race then I'm certain in the next election she will be going into it being massively disliked by the British public(The same applies to any labour leader who isn't related to the Murdoch Family).

Its something I think we are going to have to accept, so we need to find alternatives.


Agree with all that, but no need to cling to him - makes their job easier. Fortunately she's too young to have had a position on Ireland when it was violent.
 
but no need to cling to him - makes their job easier.
100% agree. I would say the Itv interview today was her first mistake.

Fortunately she's too young to have had a position on Ireland when it was violent.
RLB is a catholic so I'm still expecting the press to carry on with the whole labour party being pro I.R.A.(I'm still amazed the amount of anger Corbyn history with Irish republicanism caused, I remember one guy not voting Labour in this election due to Corbyn involvement with the Birmingham six). But overall her record is really clean.
 
100% agree. I would say the Itv interview today was her first mistake.


RLB is a catholic so I'm still expecting the press to carry on with the whole labour party being pro I.R.A.(I'm still amazed the amount of anger Corbyn history with Irish republicanism caused, I remember one guy not voting Labour in this election due to Corbyn involvement with the Birmingham six). But overall her record is really clean.

the ira stuff did far more damage than anti-semitism. which confirms that it's thr right-wing press, not the centrists, and the less sophisticated online stuff (fb over twitter) that actually shape public opinion.
 
the ira stuff did far more damage than anti-semitism. which confirms that it's thr right-wing press, not the centrists, and the less sophisticated online stuff (fb over twitter) that actually shape public opinion.
Completely agree. There was a great example of this with the story about the Isis girl who wanted to come back to Britain, it was mainstream news on twitter and places like Sky News for about 24 hours and then the media moved onto Brexit. But it still doing massive numbers on Facebook.

There's one conversation the media is having(And actually places like this forum)and a completely different one the general public is having(Which tend to be more about far right culture wars stuff).

Found it



''I'm not voting for that bigot Farage'' - walks off to vote for Boris Johnson.

''I voted Conservative but I'm gutted when they won the election''
 
More food for thought about what the Labour defeat means from Paul Mason.



The Tories will be very happy if people like Paul Mason and those at Novara Media are front and centre of the Labour Party movement and thought.
 
UK defense secretary says his country can no longer rely on the US amid Trump-induced chaos

Ben Wallace, who serves as the United Kingdom’s Secretary of State for Defense, is worried that the United States in the age of President Donald Trump cannot be counted on as a reliable ally.

“I worry if the United States withdraws from its leadership around the world,” Wallace said this week in an interview with The Times. “That would be bad for the world and bad for us. We plan for the worst and hope for the best.”

Wallace also cited some of Trump’s actions and statements as justification for launching a review of U.K. defense policy aimed at making the country less dependent on the United States.

“Over the last year we’ve had the U.S. pull out from Syria, the statement by Donald Trump on Iraq where he said NATO should take over and do more in the Middle East,” Wallace said. “The assumptions of 2010 that we were always going to be part of a US coalition is really just not where we are going to be. We are very dependent on American air cover and American intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance assets. We need to diversify our assets.”

A push to make the U.K. more independent from America likely will mean working more closely with Europe, despite the fact that voters in the U.K. voted to leave the European Union in 2016.
 
UK defense secretary says his country can no longer rely on the US amid Trump-induced chaos
Trump is going to be confused now. We have oil and the nukes to excuse an attack but we're a predominantly Caucasian nation so he won't know if he wants to invade us or not.
 


"Greives Russia Report" :rolleyes:

Peston continues his descent to Fox News levels.
 


They won't run down the NHS they said....

Poole 2019 election result - Tory Hold(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000881)

And..............

Poole Hospital's A&E to close as part of £147m NHS shake-up plans
https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2...-to-close-as-part-of-147m-nhs-shake-up-plans/

The Health Secretary, Matt Hancock, has approved £147 million plans to reorganise hospital services in Dorset.

Under the plans, the Accident and Emergency department at Poole Hospital will close and move to the Royal Bournemouth Hospital, eight miles away.

Poole Hospital will instead become the major planned care hospital for East Dorset.

Campaigners have criticised the decision, saying it puts patient care in jeopardy but Poole Hospital NHS Foundation Trust says it will improve services for local people and bring huge improvements to thousands of patients.



The big thick green line that is cropped out is @sun_tzu's bookmark bar : 31%
:lol:
 


Britain used protectionism and the physical elimination of competition through violence to rise to preeminence.

The Acts generally prohibited the use of foreign ships, required the employment of English and colonial mariners for three quarters of the crews, including East India Company ships. The acts prohibited the colonies from exporting specific, enumerated, products to countries and colonies other than those British, and mandated that imports be sourced only through Britain.
The total disparity in the manufacturing outputs of the metropole and its colonies would not have been possible without these restrictions, and it was only after a vast chasm had been established and industry in the colonies decimated that the policy switched to "free trade".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism#Great_Britain

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ander-hamilton-history-biggest-protectionists
 


Britain used protectionism and the physical elimination of competition through violence to rise to preeminence.


The total disparity in the manufacturing outputs of the metropole and its colonies would not have been possible without these restrictions, and it was only after a vast chasm had been established and industry in the colonies decimated that the policy switched to "free trade".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism#Great_Britain

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ander-hamilton-history-biggest-protectionists


“the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do.”

(if you don’t recognize the quote, its author might surprise you...)
 
“the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do.”

(if you don’t recognize the quote, its author might surprise you...)

i didnt, and i was.

i was half-expecting hitler, since this quote of his was for some reason in my notebooks alongside gandhi and nehru and churchill:
The idea of struggle is as old as life itself, for life is only preserved because other living things perish through struggle.... In this struggle, the stronger, the more able win, while the less able, the weak lose. Struggle is the father of all things. Only through struggle has man raised himself above the animal world. Even today it is not by the principles of humanity that man lives or is able to preserve himself above the animal world, but solely by means of the most brutal struggle.
 


Britain used protectionism and the physical elimination of competition through violence to rise to preeminence.


The total disparity in the manufacturing outputs of the metropole and its colonies would not have been possible without these restrictions, and it was only after a vast chasm had been established and industry in the colonies decimated that the policy switched to "free trade".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism#Great_Britain

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ander-hamilton-history-biggest-protectionists

fecking hell that's tone deaf. How ignorant to the effects of British colonialism do you have to be to openly flaunt that we used to be massive thieving wankers.
 
“the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do.”

(if you don’t recognize the quote, its author might surprise you...)

That's a pretty useless quote, as far as quotes go. For me, a clear example that even very intelligent people can say very unintelligent things at times. Then the world latches on and repeats them ad nauseam.
 
“the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do.”

(if you don’t recognize the quote, its author might surprise you...)
I would agree the 'winning' of recent centuries wasn't due to values or religion, but it was very much to do with ideas, the technological progress, industrial revolution and the naval development necessary to project it.
 
That's a pretty useless quote, as far as quotes go. For me, a clear example that even very intelligent people can say very unintelligent things at times. Then the world latches on and repeats them ad nauseam.
If its a useless quote, it must be pretty easy to debunk, right ?

So...........
I would agree the 'winning' of recent centuries wasn't due to values or religion, but it was very much to do with ideas, the technological progress, industrial revolution and the naval development necessary to project it.
Aren't all of these things a form of organised violence ?

Genuine question here.
 
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If its a useless quote, it must be pretty easy to debunk, right ?

Wrong. Debunking something means proving something false. Which is different to saying something is useless.

The history of humanity is a history of domination through organised violence. The statement that the Westerners forget this is while other's don't, is of course, unsubstantiated. And judging by the fact that Western nations have been the most militarised in the world in all modern history, suggests that no one intelligent in the echelons of power is either forgetting or ignoring that.

And it obviously leaves unanswered the real question. Which is, why do certain nations prosper financially and technologically (prerequisites for dominating through war/violence) and others don't?

Ultimately, the quote is not offering any useful insight or profound truth. Those who are amazed by it, are probably the same kind of people as those who's social media accounts are a just collection of "inspirational" quotes.
 
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All of them? No. Whilst war is a big driver of innovation it is not the only one, many discoveries and inventions weren't connected to the military at all, quite likely most of them, at least initially.
I was sort of viewing organised violence as more than the military, so the slave trade and colonialism were mass forms of organised violence or even industrialisation(Which in turn produces technological advancements) was a form of organised violence.


Wrong. Debunking something means proving something false. Which is different to saying something is useless.


The history of humanity is a history of domination through organised violence. The statement that the Westerners forget this is while other's don't, is of course, unsubstantiated. And judging by the fact that Western nations have been the most militarised in the world in all modern history, suggests that no one intelligent in the echelons of power is either forgetting or ignoring that.

Ultimately, the quote is not offering any useful insight or profound truth. Those who are amazed by it, are probably the same kind of people as those who's social media accounts are a just collection of "inspirational" quotes.


Firstly we are posting on a current events section on a football forum(both us have post counts in the thousands), the people who's social media accounts are just collection of "inspirational" quotes are far more better than us. We are somewhere between grandparents who spend all day on Qannon reddit and porn addicts.

But seriously the quote was used to reply to a video of a tory mp literally forgetting this history. No one was amazed by the quote or said it was a profound truth(Huntington clash of civilisations is a load of shite)but that it was somewhat interesting tit bit(Again considering the author its coming from).

Now go away scum.

The last part is a joke.
 
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judging by the fact that Western nations have been the most militarised in the world in all modern history, suggests that no one intelligent in the echelons of power is either forgetting or ignoring that...Ultimately, the quote is not offering any useful insight or profound truth

It’s most interesting for its author (who is a little bit misunderstood in some circles IMO), but nobody’s suggesting it’s mind-blowing stuff, it just helps to understand the collective sighs which greet such ahistorical nonsense as what Boris spouted from large chunks of the globe.
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51149531

Conservative MP Mark Francois told BBC Radio 4's The World at One that the pro-Brexit Leave Means Leave campaign and Mr Banks had donated £50,000.

He queried whether the cost of getting the bell to ring again was really £500,000, adding that he believed officials had "deliberately inflated the figure" because "they don't want to do it".

"Don't tell me it takes two weeks to attach a clapper to a bell," he said.

Francois really is one of those pricks who knows feck all yet assumes everyone else's job is as easy as his, isn't he?