This isn't their faults though. It's the courts. The rule of law has no place sticking it's nose into political decisions. Down with the courts. Up the Johnson!
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Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
- Start date
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Actually meant for the Corbyn thread.
Ah, same sort of applies I guess.
How would a GNU work? By this I mean, how would you make Corbyn and Swinson play ball?
I assume it would be strictly time limited.
- 2nd referendum on brexit
- Revoke loan charge
- ???
- What else?
I assume it would be strictly time limited.
- 2nd referendum on brexit
- Revoke loan charge
- ???
- What else?
I think it would have to be headed by somebody who wont stand (at least for PM) next election - ken clarke?
I think it would be set up not to enact any legistlation other than - extend A50, run referendum (this would imply no renegotiations and its the current W.A. agreement vs remain)
Call a GE once referendum is done
Of course the real challenge is that over that 6 month period things happen (eg iran war or similar) where the government would be expected to take some action
As it is Wednesday tomorrow
And as Parliament is sitting
Will there be a PMQ's
And as Parliament is sitting
Will there be a PMQ's
Strong and stable. Or the Chaos of Corbyn?
No, the PM is entitled to 3 days notice of any question, so there can't be any.
So as I said earlier, who is going to ask for an extension? Boris says he isn't whatever acts have been passed telling him to do so. Even if he did he could attach something impossible for the EU to consider.
Which is why I'm surprised they are not going with an immediate confidence motion .... Guess Corbyn does not want the humiliation of not being able to form a government
Perhaps Boris will call a confidence motion in himself?
Letting Boris flail cluelessly looks quite effective for the moment.
3 weeks is a long time to string it out though... It could very quickly look like putting party politics first if labour overplay their hand
Yeah. Gotta play it by ear.
What, and break the law again? It's already been made clear that such an idea is not permissible.
Quite likely, yes.
I've been thinking about elections and GNU's etc quite a bit and the following seems to hold true -
1) For every party except for the tories and lib dems, a referendum before an election would be preferable.
2) For the 'independent' tories resigning at the next election like Soames and Clarke, this is also the preferred outcome
3) For both Boris and Swinson, it would be an absolute disaster.
4) Corbyn is in a peculiar position. It's good for his party to delay, but not so good for him personally; they could viably move against him in 6 months.
5) Foreign policy would cause tensions.
I can see it happening, but it's a bit touchy.
1) For every party except for the tories and lib dems, a referendum before an election would be preferable.
2) For the 'independent' tories resigning at the next election like Soames and Clarke, this is also the preferred outcome
3) For both Boris and Swinson, it would be an absolute disaster.
4) Corbyn is in a peculiar position. It's good for his party to delay, but not so good for him personally; they could viably move against him in 6 months.
5) Foreign policy would cause tensions.
I can see it happening, but it's a bit touchy.
Can’t wait til Kuenssberg has to report on this
funnily enough i just read her blog and she doesn't seem quite the same, She almost defends him in a non committal way.
Given his personal electoral limitations, I think Corbyn has played a blinder so far.
Everything has gone his way since BJ came to power.
I noticed that in 6 o’clock news. She looked smashed and dejected, lost that cute girly glint in her eye. The push back from last week has done its job.
Only until people forget about it, which won't take long.
Either way, the general perception of Corbyn means that even if a General election does get called, Laura will most likely have a new Tory overlord to worship and BOJO can go back to being the clown of the party.
Ok so I tried to vaguely sketch out what a GNU may look like...
Harman: PM (less controversy than clarke over past voting to Labour/SNP, and possibly on her way to speakers bench anyway as independent)
Clarke: Foreign Secretary - Hugely well known and liked
Grieve: Attorney General
Starmer: Brexit Secretary
Home Secretary: ??? A corbyn loyalist perhaps ???
Chancellor: Very tough one, essentially a technicrat job in a short term GNU.
Where do the SNP and lib dems slot into these front seat slots? Very tough
Well apart from the polls showing Boris is still more popular than Corbyn... And indeed Corbyn has even surpassed foot in the unpopularity polls.
As you say his personal electoral limitations are a big issue And the reason I think he's holding off on a confidence motion (as Corbyn might find even less MP's back him than Johnson if he gets the opportunity to form a majority)
There are some pretty big opportunities to hit Boris in the next week or two that could (should) dent him
Government to be held in contempt for not publishing Cummings etc watsapp messages
Probably forcing the release of more yellowhammer docs
Probably forcing the release of the non papers to the EU
Demanding info ref akari
Probably taking control of the order papers and defeating Johnson again and forcing more no deal obligations
Numerous urgent brexit questions
Possible impeachment
And pretty much every opposition MP demanding he resigns
Problem for Corbyn though is I don't see any of that making Corbyn more popular even if it makes Boris less popular.
Probably great news for farrage and swinson though
Hammond as chancellor? ... On the basis of no changes till there is a referendum and he's done the job recently
Think Clarke would be the choice for pm and his odds are dropping at the bookies to be next pm ... That said he could be an option as chancellor as well
Clarke is 2nd fave for next pm (after Corbyn)
Business for Wednesday 25 September 2019
SUMMARY AGENDA: CHAMBER
11.30am
Prayers
Afterwards
Urgent Questions, Ministerial Statements (if any)
BUSINESS TODAY: CHAMBER
11.30am Prayers
Followed by
URGENT QUESTIONS AND STATEMENTS
Urgent Questions (if any)
Ministerial Statements (if any)
Ifs going to be several hours of calling for Boris to resign... honestly Im not sure hes going to hold up well to todays proceedings - it could actually be quite entertaining though hopefully it does not decend too far or too quickly to the lowest of the yahhh booo type of debate
I do wonder if a member might try to launch an impeachment as well as they could do this independently (with enough backers)
Maybe, but 3 former tories in key posts would be a lot.
I'm not sure Labour could stomach Clarke for PM, but chancellor certainly possible. Giving him #11 would certainly allay ex-tory fears of a labour power grab. Grieve certainly seems the right choice for AG. You'd need a heavyweight for foreign secretary as that's the one area of government that wouldn't be able to stand still for 4 months. Thornberry doesn't have the gravitas for me.
Overall I think the rebels, labour, and the SNP/Plaid can and will be quite reasonable and flexible to achieve their goals here. Corbyns ego will have to be massaged carefully if it's not him as PM though. And Swineson could be a problem.
Swinson will be busy tempting MPs across the floor with cookies.
what the feck from Cox? 'this parliament has no right to sit on these green benches' 'it is a disgrace'
This from a law officer. What on earth?
This from a law officer. What on earth?
There's many a reason why a referendum is not workable without a GE first. There's no majority in parliament for a referendum act. Because it's not just about the concept of the referendum only, but the question in it.
Lib Dems and SNP would support a referendum of May's Deal vs Remain. Corbyn might, but he wants his own deal so unsure. Hard Brexiteers would call that a betrayal because
a) it could reverse previous result before it's taken place and
b) they see it as Remain vs BINO (Brexit in name only) removing the option of "clean break"
The Tories could perhaps coalesce around a referendum of May's Deal vs No-Deal. But there's no way LibLabSNP would lend support for that. There would be no compromise between these sides.
Even if LibLabSNP + Indies succeed in passing an act for Remain vs May's Deal referendum, the Tories and Farage would simply ask brexiteers to abstain to undermine its legitimacy. Then promise to ignore the result if they get reelected since it's only an advisory referendum, against their agreement, that has been undermined as well. Parliament can't bind it's successor anyways.
So really we need a GE and a parliamentary majority first, in order to return to some semblance of normality.
We absolutely don't need a GE before a referendum. Assuming there is a majority under a GNU [and I think there is now], the technical issues can be resolved.
- They don't need the brexiteers.
- A referendum doesn't need to be advisory
- A simple revoke on the result of a remain victory would take under a day to complete before handing over for a GE. Mays deal would take a month or so, and no deal wouldn't take long
As I said above, this makes sense for every party except for the tories and the lib dems.
which were the comedic bits?
Was an appalling display.
Think Hilary Benn is a decent shout for a big post.
Fortunately we don't live in a world where politicians are targets for violence otherwise his words might cause someone to, I don't know, kill a sitting MP.
My understanding is that referendums are only ever advisory under current laws. It requires a subsequent Act to turn its result into a binding law, if Govt and Parliament are willing. You could revoke under a GNU (with or without a referendum) and then a subsequent Tory Govt will re-trigger A50 after it has undermined the result via non-participation. You'll only make politics more divisive and not solve the problem.
And sure, any subsequent government could re-trigger A50 anyway. But we're talking about having an election before the end of this year. Not even 5 months down the line, never mind 5 years. A GNU-driven referendum won't buy you any peace until a GE is done.
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Why so many empty seats? Thought everyone would have turned up. At least on the opposition benches.