Look what UKIP has become, personally I don't want to risk 90 proper fascists in the House.
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
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Look what UKIP has become, personally I don't want to risk 90 proper fascists in the House.
But FPTP doesn't stop those fascists from getting in - it just means that when they do become popular they're able to establish majorities with a much lower percentage of the national vote. Under a PR system a hard right-wing party would need around 50% of the vote to exercise absolute power. That's a threshold parties almost never meet in functioning democracies.
The story is a man confronted the PM. He makes allegations. An obvious question is, who is he? What are the allegations? Why is he making them? His activism is *a* story, but it's not *the* story.
Because this was a person confronting the PM on national TV. Who is he? He's an unhappy dad. And he's a labour activist. For some people, that's noteworthy and flavoursome detail given it's a Tory PM involved. It's not centrally important though. But it is reasonable to mention it.
My opinion is she was doing what journalists do, and there was nothing particularly out of ordinary in any of it. But for people who are ignorant about what journalists do, and how they do it, and who are already predisposed to thinking the worst of individuals concerned, for political/tribal reasons, then I can see why they think they way they do.
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Nope, you've not answered any question properly or specifically, and instead hide behind your carte blanche view that 'its journalistic', but without any justification.
I'll ask again, why did Kuenssberg make this gentleman's political leaning the central story?
Please prove this gentleman's political leanings inform his views on recent direct experience of NHS.
Why does Kuenssberg not challenge the PM on making bare faced lies?
Why are there over 100,000 complaints via social media less than 12 hours of the event? Are all of them also 'ignorant' like I also must be?
Are you the only one able to overcome 'political/tribal' reasons and possess wisdom and objectivity to see such? If so, what qualifies you to be so?
Why didn't Kuenssberg reveal similar information when people shouted at BJ in Yorkshire last week?
How does Kuenssberg's tweet fall within BBC's own code of conduct on use of social media?
Specific and factual answers please.
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Revoke seems quite popular.
With gerrymandering that will probably translate to:
Conservatives: 290
Brexit: 40
Labour: 220
Lib Dems: 60
Others: 40
I certainly have given my answers on this and other threads and taken a lot of grief despite everyone's ludicrous groupthink. So let's not accuse anyone of "hiding behind" anything.
FFS I have answered this. Because finding out who a central figure is, within a news story, is what journalists do. Nor am I aware she did make it "the central story". When I google his name, I see lots of stuff about him confronting Johnson. That is the central story. His political leanings are a footnote to the story, important to some, unimportant to others. But it is a valid detail. Finding out who a central figure is, in a news event, is normal. So normal, even the guy involved agrees she was just doing her job.
Sorry, should I not quite him? Whoops.
Don't know, ask her.
Because people don't know how journalists work, or are happy to have some tribal fun, or don't trust her, and interpret her actions through the lens of their own experiences of social media, maybe?
No, I've read many many journalists today saying they can't see what she's done wrong, because they saw her doing her job and recognise that. What qualifies me? Whatever, man. Accept my argument or don't, who fecking cares.
You'll have to ask her. But I expect this was because it was a direct confrontation, in emotional circumstances and there was a single protagonist in the story.
I dont work for the fecking Beeb. Google that yourself. Or accept the BBC also don't think she has a case to answer and move on.
I really, really doubt it's possible for Tories to get 290 seats and TBP to get 40 (simultaneously). They're basically on the same Brexit ticket and splitting the vote.
TBP has the same share of the popular vote (12-15%) as UKIP had in its heyday. They still got 0 seats. From that to 40 seats is a huge leap for mankind.
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So no answers except hiding behind your echo chamber carte blanche of 'She's a journo'. Thought so.
You should have just admitted that in first place and we'd have avoided this to and fro.
It was more of a joke about the gerrymandering than an accurate guesstimate. I couldn't being to actually predict how it's going to play out, I don't think it's even possible to predict at this stage with the potential for voter movement in all directions.
I think the most dangerous movement is going to be long time Labour voters who could never vote Tory but could protest vote for The Brexit Party in a one off election.
I think the opposite of those voters, long time Conservatives who are remainers are not only fewer in number but also more likely to stick with the Tories than vote for Lib Dem out of fear that it could give Corbyn a route in. My mother (a socially caring, progressive thinking and entirely warm and accepting person to all creeds, cultures and persuasions) is one of these people. Myself along with my two brothers have tried to get through to her on a number of occasions but she's tribal out of love and respect for my Granddad who is also a lifelong conservative and Telegraph reader. Both of them, sadly, think they are supporting a very different Conservative party to what they actually are. They still think of it as the party of business and stability and that it's the only party that can ensure the economy will be kept in great shape and that that is how the public will be best looked after. They're both completely ignorant to the fact that this Tory party ensures the corporations and bankers are looked after and frankly feck everyone else.
“Why did she do it?”
It’s in her job description.
“No but why did she did she do it really”
Because it’s her job decription.
“But is it really her job description.”
Lots of people with the same job description think it is.
“But that’s wrong.”
The person at the centre of the event doesn’t think so. And her boss does think so.
Not really sure what else there is to say.
“Why did she do it?”
It’s in her job description.
“No but why did she did she do it really”
Because it’s her job description.
“But is it really her job description.”
Lots of people with the same job description think it is.
“But that’s wrong.”
The person at the centre of the event doesn’t think so. And her boss doesn’t think so.
Not really sure what else there is to say.
Won’t bother even correcting because you’re clearly blinded on this subject.
just admit your weird ‘Kuenssberg is a journo and can do whatever she wants’ bias in the first place. More transparent.
Never said that. If that’s what you think I said, your reading comprehension is the problem not my argument.
Can’t win through debate so resort to personal slur in attempt to discredit. I see you also follow Kuenssberg‘s style in said tweets very closely.
PS: posting the same post twice doesn’t make it any more valid.
There you go again, jumping to conclusions. I’m actually on the train with a dodgy 4G connection... and I’m pretty sure I’m not Laura Kuenssberg.
I’m also not obliged to argue your straw men points and to be honest we’ve probably exhausted this argument now.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-49755720
I've had one of these times before even though I pay for a NHS prescription card.
I've had one of these times before even though I pay for a NHS prescription card.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49763550
Tory party members suspended over islamophobia after a BBC investigation.
Tory party members suspended over islamophobia after a BBC investigation.
They discussed the conversation between BJ and Mr Omer for 10 mins last night on Question Time and his political affiliation didn’t come up once. But yeah, Kuenssberg is not biased at all.
Anyways it’s all moot as Kuenssberg's been exposed and her credibility is gone. She’s now a lame duck.
As several other have noted in this thread, the truth is you wish Kuenssberg was looking at you like this.
Yeah - that’s also my last post to you on this subject
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Weirdo.
******* Harman urged to withdraw from Commons Speaker race by local party members
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49769007
I would have thought getting in a Speaker who is not a BoJo/Cummings stooge and stands up to their antics would be good for our democracy and by extension the country in general. Probably the Labour cause as well. What are these local party dudes playing at? That's like putting Peckham before party and country. Just as I praised Peckham in the thread about nice places in the UK, too.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49769007
I would have thought getting in a Speaker who is not a BoJo/Cummings stooge and stands up to their antics would be good for our democracy and by extension the country in general. Probably the Labour cause as well. What are these local party dudes playing at? That's like putting Peckham before party and country. Just as I praised Peckham in the thread about nice places in the UK, too.
How does it work for constituency issues if the MP is the speaker anyway? Do they still do surgeries?
Yes.
Haha! What press? They weren't there.
It seems you can't comprehend the very clear points being made in this case. Best to leave it.
They've had obvious issues for years. I wonder if it will have the same weight of coverage from our pro Tory press as anti semitism in the Labour party did.
I do understand them. I just don’t agree with them because IMO they are founded on a misunderstanding of what her job entails. But there you go. As you say, best leave it.
Our esteemed press have already determined it's 'on a different political scale'.
Not particularly relevant, but I really hate how the battle lines are drawn within the parties [and even religions/sects] regarding antisemitism, islamophobia, Israel, Pan Arab issues.
It seems if you are republican/conservative/protestant you have Israeli/Jewish sympathies (and yes, lets not pretend the two can be separated by the vast majority of humanity). It's so crazy that at the height of the troubles, a protestant flew an Israeli flag, and a Catholic flew a Palestinian one.
If you are liberal/left leaning, you have Muslim/Arab sympathies.
Left wing hostility to jews began long ago, it was pretty much part of communist doctrine, but it's aged very well. Anti Zionism was well funded by Stalinist states, Arab states, and some in the 'new left. And right wing hostility to Muslims, well we all know this.
It seems to have all been churned into a big melting point of chaos, and now anybody in those 'camps' tends to support the popular view. There seems to be little individual choice inside the respective camps. And then the politicians simply use them as pawns in their games. (Boris and letterboxes, trump and the embassy, obama and israel, trump on immigration, theresa may on immigration, etc)
As somebody who I feel has an individual view on the whole matter, it's real frustrating, because there's not really a camp for me.
It's all optics. Corbyn is an old socialist well accustomed to anti-semitic tropes etc, as well as a personal history of somewhat questionable partisan individual behaviour on the matter. So the media build it into a whole 'Labour problem is far bigger and more institutional' because that's how the optics look. Its lazy journalism and easy points, but not inherently anti-labour.
Bercow is my local MP and he's excellent on local issues and I've found him very helpful on a personal level too on a couple of ocassions.
Being Speaker gets him a lot of traction when helping out constituents and in getting things resoved much faster than the average MP.
Only shame is that he supports Arsenal
It's a damned mess. The site of pro Israel Protestant Right Wingers flying the Star of David at a group of Catholic Hezbollah supporters in football stadiums in my city is quite extraordinary to behold.
Left wing hostility to jews is something that never even crossed my mind until relatively recently as I saw intolerance to others due to race or religion as inherently a non left wing position. I would have seen antisemitism as, by literal definition, a right wing trait. I now see this is the common conflation of liberalism and left wing politics that I recognised in others and not in myself. I couldn't conceive of anti-semitism manifesting in a party of the left (although not one I vote for) and I struggled to believe it...but who can deny Soviet antisemitism? I knew this, yet my desire to categorise good as "left" and bad as "right" blinded me.
The behaviour of Israel to the Palestinians is shameful. This should not be a right or left issue. Hezbollah are clearly an appalling organisation with a vile belief system. This is not a right or left issue. Entrenchment into teams based on nothing is not helpful but it seems that in current politics nuance is struggling to survive.
Looks like Lansman is moving to get Watson ousted as Deputy Leader by abolishing the post of Deputy Leader.
I think you misunderstood my point (or maybe you just made another one). Either way, I don't think speicifc prejudices and xenophobia are exclusive to the left or right. They are spread across the spectrum of the whole population unfortunately. Despite the media coverage that would lead you to believe anti semitism is purely a Labour problem.
My point is not anti semitism vs Islamophobia, but the UK media's constant coverage of anything anti Labour while similar issues for the Conservatives get one day of coverage at best.
How is Corbyn well accustomed the anti semitic tropes?
He hasn't turned up to a meeting in months, how will anyone tell the difference?
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Guardian poll has Tory's 37%, Labour 22%, Lib Dems 17%, BXP 12%.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/21/labour-resurgent-liberal-democrat-headache
Yougov Voting Intentions
CON: 30%
LAB: 23%
LDEM: 22%
BXP: 14%
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/21/labour-resurgent-liberal-democrat-headache
Yougov Voting Intentions
CON: 30%
LAB: 23%
LDEM: 22%
BXP: 14%
How?
No, seriously. How in the actual feck are the Tories - the fecking Tories - that far ahead?!?!