Urghhh you don’t bump threads and cry and moan during a game.
Half time is acceptable but this has just highlighted our plastics.
The voice of reason is @TheMagicFoolBus (a Chelsea fan) which speaks volumes.
Cringe!
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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Urghhh you don’t bump threads and cry and moan during a game.
Half time is acceptable but this has just highlighted our plastics.
The voice of reason is @TheMagicFoolBus (a Chelsea fan) which speaks volumes.
Cringe!
Brighton defended really good.
And they pressed us with ease.
And it wasn't some frantic pressing like we do....they knew exactly when and who to press.
They also carried the ball from defense really good.
Cucurella and Lamptey are brilliant.
Had it not been for the red card, they might have gotten something from OT tonight.
We are miles away from a competitive team. Miles.
And they pressed us with ease.
And it wasn't some frantic pressing like we do....they knew exactly when and who to press.
They also carried the ball from defense really good.
Cucurella and Lamptey are brilliant.
Had it not been for the red card, they might have gotten something from OT tonight.
We are miles away from a competitive team. Miles.
Some fans can't wrap their heads around this, for them the manager is always at fault even if the players aren't implementing the managers strategy/vision.
This would be a grand excuse if we didn't have the easiest run of games possible and one of the best squads in the league
Appreciate the vote of confidence! I find it rather bizarre from a (more or less) neutral perspective - I don't think Rangnick is doing too much wrong? It's quite a challenging remit to ask for improvement in both the short and long term - and given the obstacles thrown up in his path I think Rangnick is generally doing quite a decent job all things considered. It can't be argued that United have been desperately unlucky over the past few games given the chances created and conceded.
I really don't understand how people don't realise that this is a two-way street - so many conclude that a manager is or isn't successful without considering the extent to which the team is willing and/or able to buy into the vision (and then furthermore the impact that has on squad building).
I really can't do the math here, but if you say none of the current batch of players were influenced / coached by either Sarri or Conte or someone who was generally capable tactically, then I'll take your word for it.
It's probably true for the likes of Mount, CHO, James, Chilwell etc. Not so for Havertz, Silva, Jorginho, Kante etc.
Did he say that they were unreceptive to coaching? I think he just said he knows who the leakers / whiners are - maybe a veiled threat to have them shut up. Don't think he was speaking about the squad in general.
I believe my eyes, I think the play has changed a lot under Rangnick and in general I see players putting in the effort. Just a pure visual test shows every player in the right zone when attacking. Even when pressing, it isn't a blind man marking system, they're in the right zones etc.
Ronaldo is fecking angling his runs and closing down angles when pressing, Bruno was a total headless chicken under Ole and he's become more intelligent when he stays / when he goes. that's all the evidence that I need at least.
Agree with you mate.
People have to remember the job he’s took on. He’s not even been able to bring his own team in as they are all in work so has been forced to cobble something together by his own admission based on availability rather than quality.
The club lost Ole, Carrick and McKenna in the space of a few weeks. It’s pretty huge to fill mid season with no time between fixtures.
Oh I certainly wouldn't say none because Conte was hugely influential in unlocking some of the potential of Kante, Azpilicueta, Christensen, and Rudiger. But I just don't think that it can be argued that Tuchel had an easier time of taking over at Chelsea due to the roots laid down by Conte when there was a major overhaul of the squad and multiple years of playing a different system in between.
He confirmed that there have been players who are dismissive of the coaching; drawing parallels between the current staff and Ted Lasso. I do think there a few bad apples and I don't think this applies to the team as a whole, and so I think generally we agree that Rangnick is doing a good job all things considered?
And on top of that after he first came in huge swaths of time were lost on the training pitch due to COVID! I actually think United are wise to take a longer view of the situation - having Rangnick installed in a director role giving his feedback to potential managers can only be a good thing, especially when he has first-hand experience with the players at his disposal.
I feel sorry for any coach that has to work with Fred and McTominay, absolute shite.
Job he took on?
Carrick beat Villareal, drew with Chelsea and beat Arsenal. The ship was well and truly steadied when Rangnick arrived.
I'm not sure we've had one performance so far under RR that was better than the Villareal or Arsenal matches when you factor we've only really played 3 decent teams in West Ham, Wolves and Brighton under him.
I can accept a 50/50 game against Brighton, but to have Brighton come to Old Trafford and dominate us the way they did in the first half should send alarm ringing to anyone paying attention.
That tonight felt a lot like the Atalanta game before the Liverpool game, where Scholes said if we come up against anyone decent it will be 3 or 4 nil at half time.
He could of been talking about this game and everything he said would be correct
The ship was steadied? With no manager?
Do know anything about Brighton? The played Chelsea off the park
So you genuinely think 3 results equates to being steadied? And that any manager coming into a situation off the back of 3 results should be judged as having a clean slate no matter how many years of mismanagement have led up to that point?
In the event that you are not a literal goldfish then I can't help but chuckle at the irony of your username.
Chelsea has a spine down the middle. We have nothing.
They have great leaders, we have Maguire.
What happened to giving managers time to instil their ideas and philosophy into a team? There's definitely been some improvements; we are conceding far less goals than before he came in, whilst also managing to generally increase the amount of chances we create at the same time.
Yes, the pressing is still inconsistent/non-existant but this isn't something that is so simple to implement, never mind mid season and with a squad who are reportedly downing tools(again) and have never been asked to press by any of their managers before. Even Klopp struggled when he first joined Liverpool, and most would agree he's a far superior coach to Rangnick.
Genuinely baffled how harshly he is being criticised already. No we are not playing well but expecting us to go from getting hammered every week, and by teams such as Watford nonetheless, to suddenly playing great every week just isn't going to happen.
It's funny because a lot of the posters jumping on Rangnick are the same ones who would defend Ole despite 3 years of no progress. It can even be argued we went backwards.
Yes, the pressing is still inconsistent/non-existant but this isn't something that is so simple to implement, never mind mid season and with a squad who are reportedly downing tools(again) and have never been asked to press by any of their managers before. Even Klopp struggled when he first joined Liverpool, and most would agree he's a far superior coach to Rangnick.
Genuinely baffled how harshly he is being criticised already. No we are not playing well but expecting us to go from getting hammered every week, and by teams such as Watford nonetheless, to suddenly playing great every week just isn't going to happen.
It's funny because a lot of the posters jumping on Rangnick are the same ones who would defend Ole despite 3 years of no progress. It can even be argued we went backwards.
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I think that's only party true - the season before Tuchel came in partway, we conceded 54 goals which was an atrocious total.
For me the biggest thing is that Tuchel is a genius at identifying the strengths and weaknesses of his players and at putting them into positions to succeed - but the first step was Chelsea's players accepting what he had to say. Ultimately I think the biggest difference is that Chelsea have more selfless players who were willing to adjust and be tactically flexible - just look at the first game under Tuchel vs Wolves with CHO playing wingback for the first time, for instance.
I think they are seeing what Tuchel did with Chelsea in a short space of time, expecting that to be normal.
They need to understand the task of trying to overhaul one of the worst pressing units in the league, which we categorically are, into a competent pressing unit all whilst in midseason.
Pep struggled in his first year. That with a pre-season, 7 signings, and a squad moulded directly for him years in advance.
Rangnick's had none of that here, no pre-season, no signings, a vipers nest of a dressing room who actively try to shift the blame onto the manager instead, whilst inheriting a squad which couldn't be more unsuited for his plans if he tried.
Oh and he's also had to Frankenstein a coaching team together because of his interim status too. He's essentially managing with one arm tied behind his back at best.
Then we've had 5/6 years of zero pressing football. That's also a process to undo how we've been conditioned to play. Jose said the same things when he took over from LVG.
All things considered, I don't know what some people were expecting. I think Rangnick is actually doing terrific so far, and the process is going as expected.
They need to understand the task of trying to overhaul one of the worst pressing units in the league, which we categorically are, into a competent pressing unit all whilst in midseason.
Pep struggled in his first year. That with a pre-season, 7 signings, and a squad moulded directly for him years in advance.
Rangnick's had none of that here, no pre-season, no signings, a vipers nest of a dressing room who actively try to shift the blame onto the manager instead, whilst inheriting a squad which couldn't be more unsuited for his plans if he tried.
Oh and he's also had to Frankenstein a coaching team together because of his interim status too. He's essentially managing with one arm tied behind his back at best.
Then we've had 5/6 years of zero pressing football. That's also a process to undo how we've been conditioned to play. Jose said the same things when he took over from LVG.
All things considered, I don't know what some people were expecting. I think Rangnick is actually doing terrific so far, and the process is going as expected.
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Man, people are in for a real shock when the next manager (Ten Hag or whoever it is) comes in and equally struggles to impose their philosophy. We have systemic problems that are going to take a long time to be fixed. You can’t make gold out of shit.
How come Conte hasn't turned Spurs into a top team yet? He must be a rubbish coach too?
Repeat after me; the hard work Rangnick is doing will be shown next season, not now. x100.
I think Ralf has an awkward situation in that as a coach he is clearly wedded to pressing. That's his whole concept of football, that's what his reputation is built on, every interview and piece of footage prior to his arrival emphasises that point. So now it looks as if he's realised we don't have the personnel, fitness, mentality to do that for 90 mins. We do it in spots but no way near with the consistency and quality required. It's hard to imagine the coaching of a press is poor, I don't buy that whatsoever. Why would everybody that admires RR be spouting bollocks. He may not be a top tier coach in winning things but he is renowned for coaching.
So I'm guessing he is trying to adjust that slightly, looking at the game today. It didn't work at all but something looked a bit different. Could just be a half arsed effort, but we seemed to noticeably sit off. So maybe his idea now is to pick his moments to get into the team and press high, that's my assumption.
I get the impression Ralf is a bit of an ideologue so it's a weird situation to have a manager that seems in contradiction of the players abilities on a short term results orientated contract. But then again, would any style of manager work with this lot? I guess we have to hope we can bundle over the line.
So I'm guessing he is trying to adjust that slightly, looking at the game today. It didn't work at all but something looked a bit different. Could just be a half arsed effort, but we seemed to noticeably sit off. So maybe his idea now is to pick his moments to get into the team and press high, that's my assumption.
I get the impression Ralf is a bit of an ideologue so it's a weird situation to have a manager that seems in contradiction of the players abilities on a short term results orientated contract. But then again, would any style of manager work with this lot? I guess we have to hope we can bundle over the line.
Are people joking? They think we look poorly coached? Please tell me you've been watching another team. We looked very organized for a team that just changed a month ago. Very very organized. Can someone already make a damn compilation of our best transition plays since Ralf took over. The way we get the ball from back to front and pass out of pressure.
Even our pressing has taken a huge leap and is a lot more organised. Tonight was our first goal resulting from high pressure, players finally stopped wasting them. Surely this is just a revenge bump for Ole's cause because it has no actual grounding in reality. The parts of the team that are failing are players Ralf would never have bought.
Even our pressing has taken a huge leap and is a lot more organised. Tonight was our first goal resulting from high pressure, players finally stopped wasting them. Surely this is just a revenge bump for Ole's cause because it has no actual grounding in reality. The parts of the team that are failing are players Ralf would never have bought.
I agree with your observations about today's game. I think he might have realised that it's a bit of a losing game to get them to press for 90 mins at their current level. We were clever and picked our moments to press much more.
Doing a press poorly can be worse than not doing it at all, especially when tired (Southampton). Also when Brighton are so well versed with it, observed our match with Southampton, and will come expecting the press ready to counter any gaps we present. So a bit of that I would guess.
I don't think his contract is results orientated. We've been told that Ralf has been brought in by the club, to speed up the bedding in process, in order to lay the foundations for a modern pressing game for the next manager in the summer, whilst also evaluating the players in the process, ready for his move upstairs in assisting the next manager.
This makes huge sense. Pressing football has been an alien concept to us for at least the past 5/6 years, so bringing in someone like ten Hag in the summer without this bedding in process would be worthless.
We've seen it with Rangnick, he wouldn't be able to implement his ideas properly until the following season realistically. It also cuts out the time evaluating players before removing as Rangnick would have done the work already (his time now).
Where it gets a bit confusing, is that Ralf in his first press conference here, said he might advise the club to stick with him instead as manager next season too if the right manager isn't available, as he done the same thing at Leipzig.
Come on. Pep finished 4th his first season and Klopp took 4 seasons before winning anything and look at them now.
If it was just a case of giving tactical instructions any idiot could do it
One have to be blind to not see our press is much, much better now
Good old "patterns of play" though? Nowhere to be seen. Well, there are some, but they arent producing any chances
Good old "patterns of play" though? Nowhere to be seen. Well, there are some, but they arent producing any chances
I don't think we're poorly coached at all under Rangnick. We just have no midfield.
Nor Ronaldo from even closer
Fair enough, but we are still 20 xG (and goals) behind City and Liverpool on the table. No doubt we have been very wasteful under RR, but we could still do much better
The problem is that RR wants quicker passes. We carry the ball forward until there is no other option.
Yeah, strange bump it was but redcafe in a nutshell I guess. We press much better and create chances, midfield is a big problem still though.
Awfully coached or too many uncoachables?
Their national team performances and performances at other clubs would suggest the former. Just look at hardworking Martial against Elche - that took Lopetegui's team a few weeks to get out of him. One thing is being shit everywhere, another thing is being shit only here. We have a lot of players who are mostly shit here. The reasons for that are probably not all down to mentality of the players.
I think asking questions about the coaching isn't unreasonable given the evidence on the pitch. Let's not pretend Rangnick showed up with a team of world class coaches. We had an emergency coaching team put together because Ole's was failing dramatically and PSG understandably refused to let us get Pochettino and his coaching staff mid-season.
Someone else can confirm but I believe our XG difference under Ralf, between chances on goal vs chances conceded, is as wide as the title challengers this season.
Unless you want Ralf to pick up the ball himself and boot it in the back of the net, there's little else he can do with the cards dealt.
This. I was watching the PSG game on the side and I was comparing how they kept the ball. Verrati and Paredes didnt lose the ball where as McFred under a little pressure cannot handle the football. I seen players come out of tricky positions and line break passes but it seems the ball is always bouncing of our midfielders.
If people can't see the progress Rangnick has made , they should stop replying posts and watch more . Not to mention the context Rangnick has been under: the most craziest media pressure and fan expectation, leaking news all over the place, tight fixtures and COVID hit, limited player options to implement his tactics , unhappy players who were over-promised and wanted to leave anyhow, upside down style change from counter-attack football to gegenpressing.
Now you could see at least 45 mins of play with well drill game plan and effective execution, creating way more chances to allow our forwards to waste. All we need is to carry on and make it 90 min.
Now you could see at least 45 mins of play with well drill game plan and effective execution, creating way more chances to allow our forwards to waste. All we need is to carry on and make it 90 min.
Im at the stage where i dont think i can put the blame on the coach now.. theres no way this is just another coach doesn't know what he is doing, We heard from so many decent sources Ralf is a man to be listened to, and knows his football.
He came in with his own vision and system which the players worked at for a couple games. Now he seemingly has just abandoned his plan to suit these players, & just reverted back to what they already know unfortunately. This says to me they are either too stupid to/ refuse to adapt to the new tactics, or simply not good enough.. Prob a mix of both.
I honestly think we could bring in a Klopp/Pep/SAF super coaching team and we would get the same sh*t. If anythings gotta change, its these lad's attitudes... or the majority of the players shipped out for players who want to be there / actually want to be coached
It will be interesting when a new coach comes in how they act, knowing he's not there for just a couple months. I think it will only be so long before the players start the same sh*t leaking stories and wanting their own way though. Hopefully it's someone who is absolutely ruthless and just starts cleaning the team out from day one. Thats prob their best chance of succeeding
He came in with his own vision and system which the players worked at for a couple games. Now he seemingly has just abandoned his plan to suit these players, & just reverted back to what they already know unfortunately. This says to me they are either too stupid to/ refuse to adapt to the new tactics, or simply not good enough.. Prob a mix of both.
I honestly think we could bring in a Klopp/Pep/SAF super coaching team and we would get the same sh*t. If anythings gotta change, its these lad's attitudes... or the majority of the players shipped out for players who want to be there / actually want to be coached
It will be interesting when a new coach comes in how they act, knowing he's not there for just a couple months. I think it will only be so long before the players start the same sh*t leaking stories and wanting their own way though. Hopefully it's someone who is absolutely ruthless and just starts cleaning the team out from day one. Thats prob their best chance of succeeding
Some people just dont seem to understand what Ralf is doing. Let me put it like this - Lets say United is a ship in a race around the world. The past Captain went out poorly prepared. The ship is at disarray. The captain takes them into one disaster after the other. They hit icebergs, they get hammered by pirate ships, they hit storms. The ship is on fire, water is coming through everywhere and the crew wants to abandon ship. The owners hear the mayday. The send out a new captain and send the old captain off. The new captain is putting out fires left right and center, he is bailing out water, he gets rid of anyone and anything that is excess baggage. His job is to right the ship and get it to safe harbor for repairs. On the radio people are saying throw the crew out. All of them. They are useless. Make a new mast. You should be back in the race by now.
This is where Rangnick is. He is just trying to get us to the end of the season. Yes he can make some minor repairs when possible. Yes he can try and galvanize the team and teach them to be better. Get them better disciplined. Get them pulling together. But only to a point. We need to get to the end of the season by whatever means possible. If we can sail into the end of the season and everyone is like family and turn world class and they manage to fix a lot of the issues on the way then happy days. But that would be a miracle. Lets just get to the end of the season by whatever means possible and start again in the summer.
And in fact this is what Ralf has been saying at his press conferences. Yes I can see what this team needs but our priority is the next game. Our priority is top 4.
This is where Rangnick is. He is just trying to get us to the end of the season. Yes he can make some minor repairs when possible. Yes he can try and galvanize the team and teach them to be better. Get them better disciplined. Get them pulling together. But only to a point. We need to get to the end of the season by whatever means possible. If we can sail into the end of the season and everyone is like family and turn world class and they manage to fix a lot of the issues on the way then happy days. But that would be a miracle. Lets just get to the end of the season by whatever means possible and start again in the summer.
And in fact this is what Ralf has been saying at his press conferences. Yes I can see what this team needs but our priority is the next game. Our priority is top 4.
That one ‘pass’ from Fred last night, tells you everything you need to know about what Ralf’s working with.
Why is this thread still bring bumped? This was made during Ole’s tenure for Ole and has nothing to do with Ralf
Absolutely. It will be the same with your fan base I’m sure but I’ve come to the conclusion they’ll always be a section of moaning, likely immature, posters who only see what they want to see.