We are an awfully coached team

DLE said:
Not defending Ole but you seem to have forgotten LVGs time at MU.
Click to expand...
No I didn’t. We were not scoring goals and it became progressively worse but we’re always quite solid. This despite having an inferior squad. We should have gone for a progress manager after LVG but we went for Mourinho.
Under LVG we had some great games away to big teams where we actually played football and not just countered
 
Sorry but there is nothing to even add to this thread. 90% fans have given their stamp on Ole going. More Newcastle fans were supporting Steve Bruce than Man Utd fans supporting Ole. Sorry but they should make this decision to move on quickly. We need to get a manager in who knows that there are tactics and positions. Ole was saying in the summer that there are midfielders and attackers, no specific positions. Sorry mate but Klopp has specific positions. And maybe that guy knows a bit more about football than Ole does.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
We've won leagues with a mixture of some utter crap midfields.

Liverpool just wiped the floor with us playing Henderson, Milner and Keita.

Give me a shout when you wake up and realise that exceptional managers make even imperfect things work, whereas crap ones instead highlight the weaknesses. A top manager would get a squad of midfielders including DVB, Fernandes, Fred, Pogba, McTominay, Matic doing a job that highlights their strengths, rather than highlights and exposes all their weaknesses.
Click to expand...
Remind me who that manager was again? Let’s see what position the next manager addresses first shall we, revisit it then.

I forget you exist but you like to bump my old posts so I’ll wait to hear from you bud. Much love.
 
So to the people who were saying be positive after Atalanta and that the team will build on that win...

What did we build exactly?
 
RUCK4444 said:
Remind me who that manager was again? Let’s see what position the next manager addresses first shall we, revisit it then.

I forget you exist but you like to bump my old posts so I’ll wait to hear from you bud. Much love.
Click to expand...

I love bumping utterly clueless posts yes.

That manager was one of, if not the best ever. Cause great managers make it work, you though have been banging the drum thinking Ole, given enough time can do the same, if only he gets Declan fecking Rice.
Of course we're likely to strengthen midfield next, whoever is manager, we've bought an entire back four and front line in the past 2.5 years so no shit there, but let's see if someone can make this group function before a transfer window, my bet is they can, by making the rest of the side more intelligent in their play, and by having much more defined roles and positions. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me to see a manager go 3-5-2 to make up for those deficiencies.
 
Plain as day to see this team is not being coached properly. You have to be pretty dense to still think otherwise.
 
Slevs said:
So to the people who were saying be positive after Atalanta and that the team will build on that win...

What did we build exactly?
Click to expand...

I think this highlights a fundamental point: you don't build on results, you build on performances.
 
Ole what he said today. He is deluded if he thinks the coaches are brilliant and we are close to his vision so wont give up. Does he really believe that or is he that pig headed he cant admit when he is wrong. His lies are getting worse.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I love bumping utterly clueless posts yes.

That manager was one of, if not the best ever. Cause great managers make it work, you'll think Ole, given enough time can do the same, if only he gets Declan fecking Rice. Of course we're likely to strengthen midfield next, whoever is manager, we've bought an entire back four and front line in the past 2.5 years so no shit there, but let's see if someone can make this group function before a transfer window, my bet is they can, by making the rest of the side more intelligent in their play, having defined roles and positions.
Click to expand...
Yeah actually your right! I just remembered a certain manager finished 2nd in the league with this exact midfield last season :lol:

Bore off now lad, the result and poor form this season has put a pound in you and we can’t switch you off.
 
As an opposition fan here, not trolling, your problem isn't McFred its the players round them, defensively they do feck all. I watched the whole game and your full backs and Bruno don't press backwards they are left on their own.
 
LilyWhiteSpur said:
As an opposition fan here, not trolling, your problem isn't McFred its the players round them, defensively they do feck all. I watched the whole game and your full backs and Bruno don't press backwards they are left on their own.
Click to expand...

Anyone with an ounce of sense can see the problem runs more deeper than a defensive midfielder, just as Scholes called it also.
 
sullydnl said:
I think this highlights a fundamental point: you don't build on results, you build on performances.
Click to expand...

This is what most people fail to understand. Playing well but go down and get a comeback win is one thing, and consistently playing badly and getting comebacks wins is sonething else.

Our current gameplan for every match is get the ball to Bruno and inshallah
 
LilyWhiteSpur said:
As an opposition fan here, not trolling, your problem isn't McFred its the players round them, defensively they do feck all. I watched the whole game and your full backs and Bruno don't press backwards they are left on their own.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
Yet people wanna replace both with 1 DM and shoehorn Pogba/another attacking midfielder next to Fernandes. Its like they're playing FIFA.

What are two guys supposed to do against 3 midfielders and overlapping full backs rushing them from all sides.
 
wolvored said:
Ole what he said today. He is deluded if he thinks the coaches are brilliant and we are close to his vision so wont give up. Does he really believe that or is he that pig headed he cant admit when he is wrong. His lies are getting worse.
Click to expand...
I think he has to say that in front of the cameras.

not to claim to be ‘reading body language’ but he looked like he knew they were out of their depth when answering that question.

Like he knew he needs more help from more experienced coaches. That’s how I read his reaction to the question. Too late for that anyway.
 
RUCK4444 said:
Yeah actually your right! I just remembered a certain manager finished 2nd in the league with this exact midfield last season :lol:
Click to expand...

Ah the second place trophy, on a massive 74 points, 7 less than Mourinho managed with the same midfield.

We all knew that 2nd place was a red herring, Liverpool and Chelsea’s form showed us that, we simply capitalised in a season with crap home form and where we incredibly recovered from crap first half after crap first half after crap fiest half, completely unsustainable stuff.
 
LilyWhiteSpur said:
I watched it and your full backs and Bruno press forward aimlessly, but going back they just stand there with McFred and your 2 CBs left.
Click to expand...

It’s been that way for a long time, we don’t know how to press, it’s why under Ole we’ve always looked better as a pure counter attacking side. Now it seems every single team has wised up to that so we’re trying something that resembles school yard football, and whoever plays at CB and the two sitting midfielders especially are asked to do an impossible job.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Ah the second place trophy, on a massive 74 points, 7 less than Mourinho managed with the same midfield.

We all knew that 2nd place was a red herring, Liverpool and Chelsea’s form showed us that, we simply capitalised in a season with crap home form and where we incredibly recovered from crap first half after crap first half after crap fiest half, completely unsustainable stuff.
Click to expand...
Just pointing out that he ‘made it work’ to some extent with that midfield as I think you put it, but it’s been a topic for a long time. Nobody was happy with McFred even when we did well for spells.

I’m not even arguing for Ole here, you brought up the DM, my point is we need one regardless, which was my point in the first place and still is.
 
Slevs said:
Thank you.
Yet people wanna replace both with 1 DM and shoehorn Pogba/another attacking midfielder next to Fernandes. Its like they're playing FIFA.

What are two guys supposed to do against 3 midfielders and overlapping full backs rushing them from all sides.
Click to expand...

I agree totally its really odd as to why, they get so much shit.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
We've won leagues with a mixture of some utter crap midfields.

Liverpool just wiped the floor with us playing Henderson, Milner and Keita.

Give me a shout when you wake up and realise that exceptional managers make even imperfect things work, whereas crap ones instead highlight the weaknesses. A top manager would get a squad of midfielders including DVB, Fernandes, Fred, Pogba, McTominay, Matic doing a job that highlights their strengths, rather than highlights and exposes all their weaknesses.
Click to expand...

There's a limit to what a manager can do. We saw that last season when Klopp lost his centrebacks. We saw it before he signed VVD and Allison.

But none of that excuses Ole. Like it's been said a million times, our midfield is crap and he's allowed it to be crap.

Liverpool's midfield isn't the greatest individually but the three at least mix well, they compliment each other. Then of course that midfield is made up for by the fullbacks mainly.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
It’s been that way for a long time, we don’t know how to press, it’s why under Ole we’ve always looked better as a pure counter attacking side. Now it seems every single team has wised up to that so we’re trying something that resembles school yard football, and whoever plays at CB and the two sitting midfielders especially are asked to do an impossible job.
Click to expand...

But why do the rest of the team seemingly get a by ball?
 
Can't blame McFred


We all know they are average, but the system is unbalanced and the team are positionally all over the place.
 
I didnt think I would ever say this, but if hes still here in January I hope the glazers dont give him another shit load of money to fritter away. Keep it all for the next incumbent.
 
Ole is out of his depth. It has been 3 years and he is finishing top 4 due to the expensive players he has. He might still finish 4th but let's not kid ourselves that Ole is the man to deliver the title. There are 3 world class coaches in Chelsea, City and Pools. I don't know why Utd decided to slash money for top players and forger about the importance of a competent coach. There is nothing implemented for the last 3 years, just a group of individual put to together hoping it is a recipe of success. How blind is the board and COE? Continue dreaming Ole can lead us to victory, To be honest, I wanted him out in the first year. Seeing so many better managers without a job where we could hire is such a shame especially Tuchel who is the mould of Klopp. Sad days ahead, such opportunity is rare to come back.
 
Marwood said:
There's a limit to what a manager can do. We saw that last season when Klopp lost his centrebacks. We saw it before he signed VVD and Allison.

But none of that excuses Ole. Like it's been said a million times, our midfield is crap and he's allowed it to be crap.

Liverpool's midfield isn't the greatest individually but the three at least mix well, they compliment each other. Then of course that midfield is made up for by the fullbacks mainly.
Click to expand...

Our midfield really isn't that crap and it doesn't help when your manager is shifting your best passer out to the wing or has him sat on the bench today. Once upon a time SAF had Tom Cleverly holding his ground against Modric and Alonso vs Madrid. Henderson at Liverpool was deemed rubbish before Klopp came in. A manager worth his salt will squeeze much more out of this midfield.
 
Shark said:
Our midfield really isn't that crap and it doesn't help when your manager is shifting your best passer out to the wing or has him sat on the bench today. Once upon a time SAF had Tom Cleverly holding his ground against Modric and Alonso vs Madrid. Henderson at Liverpool was deemed rubbish before Klopp came in. A manager worth his salt will squeeze much more out of this midfield.
Click to expand...

I'd have to disagree, it is crap. Partly because of the individuals and partly because we only play two of them.

A new manager probably would instantly improve it just by playing a third guy in there. Nothing complicated in that. But he would ultimately replace the individuals as well.

I see the Cleverley comparison quite a bit. He was rubbish, it didn't work, even with SAF in charge. Henderson is no world beater but he's still a couple of levels above our choices.
 
LilyWhiteSpur said:
You watch that game and its the wide men, Bruno and your full backs that were absent IMO of course.
Click to expand...

And the two wingers. We try to defend with the 4 defenders and two midfield players. We also do not have any structure. As Carra said United is not an academy for coaches to learn their football. We cannot play like a Sunday pub team and get away with it. There is no way in hell we can do that against a good team. Liverpool is not a good team. They are a great team.
 
LilyWhiteSpur said:
But why do the rest of the team seemingly get a by ball?
Click to expand...
As said before they are scapegoats. Just like Dan James was a scapegoat when he was our only winger who actually dropped off the ball to press and defend. None of them are world class, but if you set up your players that are good (not great) to fail (by having them play 2 vs3 that changes to 2 vs 5 when their fullbacks join in) they will fail.
 
Ole's tactical nativity causing us these problems.
I am no coach and don't even play football manager but I feel we have too many forwards and only Bruno is expected to supply them with chances. If Ole cannot drop Ronaldo then instead of playing rashford or greenwood, he should play vdb and sancho who would be more content in creating chances for Ronaldo along side Bruno rather than thinking of burying it themselves like rashford or greenwood. I have nothing against rashford and greenwood, they both are excellent talents but this is just a tactical solution as having too many forwards is not helping us at the moment.
 
When we'd play poorly under Sir Alex but persevere and get a late goal to salvage a point or win a match, despite what the stereotype is, that was few and far between. We'd usually batter teams. We might not win every game 4-0 but in the majority of the games we'd dominate with the ball, have the lions-share of chances, and generally outplay them. You do that through hard work. The boss might have celebrated those rare get-out-of-jail moments but he never worked towards them as a 'plan a'. You always got the impression once the dust had settled the focus came down to asking questions of the players about why they struggled in a game until the last. You had players like Keane who'd no doubt want answers. Yes we scored the winner in the 92nd minute and the fans went home delirious, but why couldn't we get it done earlier?

That's the kind of thing you expect from a winning manager. With Ole I get the feeling since he got here that he thinks playing poorly and fluking a win is the way it's supposed to be. The aim. The 'United way'. That's why his pre-match comments prove he was delighted with the Atalanta game. He doesn't see the 2 goal lead conceded, he just sees the comeback because he thinks that's part and parcel of who we are, moreover part of who we should be in his view. You score 2 we'll score 3. You score 5..... Even after the game there was no explanation for what went wrong but a belief from him that if we took our chances it could have been better. As if winning 6-5 would not only have been a thrilling match but how we should play football.

It seems so weird to say given how long he spent at the club but he seems to have no idea, or no appreciation, for how good sides he was part of were and why they were so good. It really wasn't because they played like shit for the majority of their games but lucked out with a last minute winner. That happened occasionally, sure. But it happened as a result of us being an exceptionally coached and talented side who opposition defenders couldn't resist for 90 minutes (95 minutes, ngl #FergieTime) - it was never the tactical intention to think 'We're Manchester United' and assume a divine right to score goals and win matches dramatically would see us through. But that's genuinely what I think he's trying to recreate.
 
Verward said:
Ole's tactical nativity causing us these problems.
I am no coach and don't even play football manager but I feel we have too many forwards and only Bruno is expected to supply them with chances. If Ole cannot drop Ronaldo then instead of playing rashford or greenwood, he should play vdb and sancho who would be more content in creating chances for Ronaldo along side Bruno rather than thinking of burying it themselves like rashford or greenwood. I have nothing against rashford and greenwood, they both are excellent talents but this is just a tactical solution as having too many forwards is not helping us at the moment.
Click to expand...
:lol:The bedrock of all football tactical acumen.
 
Verward said:
Ole's tactical nativity causing us these problems.
I am no coach and don't even play football manager but I feel we have too many forwards and only Bruno is expected to supply them with chances. If Ole cannot drop Ronaldo then instead of playing rashford or greenwood, he should play vdb and sancho who would be more content in creating chances for Ronaldo along side Bruno rather than thinking of burying it themselves like rashford or greenwood. I have nothing against rashford and greenwood, they both are excellent talents but this is just a tactical solution as having too many forwards is not helping us at the moment.
Click to expand...

Sensible post. Football is a team game. Greenwood and to a lesser extent Rashford are not team players but it's The manager' s job to make them into team players.
 
He thinks his coaching staff are brilliant. We are totally and utterly fecked until he is sacked.
 
Almost all our issues this season were present and obvious last season too, they’ve just become exacerbated by the bad form of important players… it’s not like we didn’t also look like we could’ve shipped 7 goals away to Roma last season with Cavani, Fred and Bruno all on the pitch “working hard” and pressing like mad… it’s not as if we didn’t concede 4 to Liverpool in this same fecking fixture last May! And everyone pretended then it was cos Maguire was injured!

Blaming new players, lazy players, out of form players is just obsfucation… none of it helps, but it’s not the real fecking issue and everyone knows it
 
Marwood said:
There's a limit to what a manager can do. We saw that last season when Klopp lost his centrebacks. We saw it before he signed VVD and Allison.

But none of that excuses Ole. Like it's been said a million times, our midfield is crap and he's allowed it to be crap.

Liverpool's midfield isn't the greatest individually but the three at least mix well, they compliment each other. Then of course that midfield is made up for by the fullbacks mainly.
Click to expand...
Utter nonsense. When Klopp came into the team, Liverpool started playing in a specific way. You could see his vision from the very moment he stepped in as a manager. Of course, it took some time for things to *click*, but even before they clicked he overperformed. In just 2 full seasons later he gets them to a CL final, a win later and dominance of the league. This is what a good manager can do. His squad is nothing spectacular, really.

In contrast with Ole, we're 3 full seasons in and there isn't even a notion of what style we want to play or what we're doing on the pitch, let alone getting results. Everything we do comes from some player's individual genius rather than teamplay. What pisses me off is that yesterday Liverpool simply coasted on their system. They weren't even that good, we were just pathetic. It's like the players had no idea what to do on the pitch - whether to press, to stay coherent, whether to attack or defend, where to be on the pitch. This is all down to Ole and his staff coaching skills, nothing to do with the players.

McFred is not the best midfield duo in history, but under a competent manager they can do a decent job. Our players are very good, overall, we just don't have a captain who knows how to steer the ship. We have a bunch of amateurs with zero experience at the top, led by a guy whose managerial CV is Molde and Cardiff. And in neither of the two jobs he has impressed. This is the sad reality. The manager is the linchpin that holds everything together and if the manager is below par, nothing will work. We'll still win most of our games in the league because each of our players is capable of producing at any given moment, but we're never going to achieve anything of note.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.