We are an awfully coached team

pratyush_utd said:


Scholes as good as saying this. Was critical of our performance in midweek
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But @RUCK4444 tells me all we need is a top DM and all of our plethora of problems will simply melt away.

Bang on Scholes, we’re like a fecking kids team, no midfield pairing can make up for all of the issues we have as one of the most naive top sides I’ve ever witnessed. Get the system right, and like Fergie you can play Cleverley and Ando in midfield and look class, or Klopp with Milner, Pep with Lahm etc. Hell Ten Hag has lost 6 of his starting 11 in the past two years, just as Klopp did at Dortmund, yet other players simply slot in, as the system is much more important than any individual player.
 
pratyush_utd said:


Scholes as good as saying this. Was critical of our performance in midweek
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He said the same thing before the match. He said that this was going to happen. He said that Greenwood must shoulder the blame for the first goal and he is shirking his responsibilites
 
We were always awfully coached - which is why Ole-ball was so reliant on results. That being said, we are currently equal points with Arsenal and only 2 points ahead of Brentford who have had harder starts to the season than ourselves. Brighton and Moyes managed West Ham are currently ahead of us on points.

:eek:
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
But @RUCK4444 tells me all we need is a top DM and all of our plethora of problems will simply melt away.

Bang on Scholes, we’re like a fecking kids team, no midfield pairing can make up for all of the issues we have as one of the most naive top sides I’ve ever witnessed. Get the system right, and like Fergie you can play Cleverley and Ando in midfield and look class, or Klopp with Milner, Pep with Lahm etc. Hell Ten Hag has lost 6 of his starting 11 in the past two years, just as Klopp did at Dortmund, yet other players simply slot in, as the system is much more important than any individual player.
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I didn’t say it would fix every issue, I’ve said the coaching can be questioned, just that the squad (no matter who the managers is) definitely needs a DM.

What’s the first signing you would like the next manager to make? DM. Obviously.

Give me a shout when the next manager is winning us the league with McFred pal :rolleyes:
 
RUCK4444 said:
I didn’t say it would fix every issue, I’ve said the coaching can be questioned, just that the squad (no matter who the managers is) definitely needs a DM.

What’s the first signing you would like the next manager to make? DM. Obviously.

Give me a shout when the next manager is winning us the league with McFred pal :rolleyes:
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Yes. Although McFred should be sufficient for beating teams like southampton which we have failed to do, but we are always going to lose out in a midfield battle against teams with class cm/cdm players. You just wouldnt fancy those two to come out on top against the midfield of city, liverpool or chelsea. Thats going to inhibit us winning the league, or any cups in all likelihoods, regardless of manager.

The funny thing about the ‘patterns of play’ stuff is that actually, its our work when we aren't playing the ball thats costing us dear. Some of the team seem to want to press, some stand still, the others try to drop back. There are league 2 teams that are comfortably better than us off the ball. Its shite.
 
You can't rely on individual quality in defence and without the ball in general. It can work in attack sometimes when a world class player(s) produces a moment of brilliance but in defence you need organisation, setup, coaching coverages, tracking runners etc.

We have zero coaching all around.
 
That was as ugly as it gets. The result was not even surprising. There is a night and day gulf between us and Liverpool.
 
stw2022 said:
The most damming line of all: “We’re too close”. Despite everything he’s seen this season let alone tonight he still thinks this is the right path. He still believes we’re going in the right direction. How can you begin to have faith in him to tackle the problem if he can’t see one.

2-0 down against a half-strength Atalanta at home. It should have been more. He picks same 11 that went in at half time behind 2-1 because, in his words, he thought that team played really well.

Delusional doesn’t begin to cover it. It’s concerning. Deeply concerning.

If he gets another match we’ll approach it the exact same way, will probably get hammered again and he still won’t see anything wrong in his approach, preparation or set up. I wouldn’t mind betting that - goals aside - he won’t be too disappointed with todays performance.
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I think ole might be delusional. The way he set out against atalanta with 2 in the middle and 4 upfront as if we would rip them a new one, we were lucky to pull out a win against a second string atalanta and then to try the same stunt against an in form liverpool. And there are many more examples.

Its a deadly cocktail of delusion, arrogance and stubbornness.
 
Our defensive game has been almost the worst in the league apparently. Not that it is surprising.

It just looks like that we don't have players who can tackle the ball and win cleanly except for maybe AWB at times.

Which is surprising.
 
OleBoiii said:
FwWdFEB.jpg
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Posts like this when we called shit as shit.
 



Gary criticised team selection and set up but when Jamie said it’s coaching issue, he just ignored him :lol:
 
Jezpeza said:
Yes. Although McFred should be sufficient for beating teams like southampton which we have failed to do, but we are always going to lose out in a midfield battle against teams with class cm/cdm players. You just wouldnt fancy those two to come out on top against the midfield of city, liverpool or chelsea. Thats going to inhibit us winning the league, or any cups in all likelihoods, regardless of manager.

The funny thing about the ‘patterns of play’ stuff is that actually, its our work when we aren't playing the ball thats costing us dear. Some of the team seem to want to press, some stand still, the others try to drop back. There are league 2 teams that are comfortably better than us off the ball. Its shite.
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Largely agree.

Were terrible out of possession, I think Ole is trying to convert to a pressing team. That’s what he wanted when he first arrived, then realised the players we had suited a counterattack system far better. In his attempt to transition to a pressing system were making a complete mess of it and making ourselves very easy to play against through non-effective pressing, like we’ve seen all season.

Our work rate is poor in comparison to the league averages as well, which surprises me a tad becuase Ole has mentioned before multiple times that the least he expects is us to have the same or better effort/fitness as other sides, but we are failing on that front as well it seems.

Gary mentioned that Ronaldo had players like a young Rooney, Tevez, Park and Fletcher as a foil in the past, our forwards (Cavani aside) don’t have that work rate. It’s showing up when we’re trying to press.

The lack of a stable base in midfield allows opponents to fully take advantage of this, like they have all season so far, that’s my point on DM, it’s not a magic fix it just brings more of a natural balance to work from.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
All those jokes scoffing at patterns of play. It's almost like we enjoy being crap.
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Embarrassing. People only scoffed at it due to their own lack of understanding of modern day tactics. That, and to deflect away from Ole's 90's tactics. Who looks foolish now eh...

A lot of 'Ole fans' on here are going to come out of his tenure looking very bad.
 
Foxbatt said:
Were you at the game Sultan?
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Yes

I tell you the performance was a lot worse than what you watched on TV. They are being sliced open at will. This is not even a surprise it's been coming over the last 5/6 games.
 
Foxbatt said:
Were you at the game Sultan?
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I was also at Leicester away. Had they had a better team they would have also embarrassed the team. Villareal should also have scored 5 goals in the first half.
 
Sultan said:
Yes

I tell you the performance was a lot worse than what you watched on TV. They are being sliced open at will. This is not even a surprise it's been coming over the last 5/6 games.
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I have never felt this bad even during Jose's time. With Jose we knew that he wanted to get sacked in the end. This is much worse. This is delusional. I have been to OT many times but obviously never been at a game that we conceded so many goals.

How did the fans react?
 
Sultan said:
Yes

I tell you the performance was a lot worse than what you watched on TV. They are being sliced open at will. This is not even a surprise it's been coming over the last 5/6 games.
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How's the general reaction ? Is the crowd still supporting Ole ?
 
Thought it summed us up in the first half when we isolated Alexandre Arnold 2 or 3 times and couldn't take advantage of it.
 
Paul Scholes was literally begging Ole on TV not to play this tactic against Liverpool. Begging.

And we are listening to 'fine margins' and 'we go again next week' on his post match team talk.

Feck.
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
I nearly miss the LVG philosophy days. Ok it’s not that bad but it’s close.
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TBF I don't have as bad an opinion on that system as some on here do. The problem with LVG was his tiki-taka was a more horizontal approach, rather than a vertical approach, but if we continued down that route, when considering our managerial appointments etc. we'd have won some trophies by this stage and playing far better football. We needed to hire another progressive, possession based coach with a more modern outlook on the style, instead we sacked it completely and went with Mourinho then to Ole who are both pragmatic, counter attacking coaches.

At least with LVG, you could see what was being implemented and games like Juanfield where we went head to head with our rivals rather than sitting deep and hoping to counter seem like a pipe dream now.
 
Of course it is coaching and Gary Neville made to look like an idiot by Jamie Carra.
 
Blood Mage said:
We were a much better team under Van Gaal than we are under Solskjaer. With inferior players too.
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Attacking talent that LVG had is light year behind what Ole has. At least were more solid under LVG and he had to play likes of Paddy Macnair.
 
Foxbatt said:
I have never felt this bad even during Jose's time. With Jose we knew that he wanted to get sacked in the end. This is much worse. This is delusional. I have been to OT many times but obviously never been at a game that we conceded so many goals.

How did the fans react?
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bond19821982 said:
How's the general reaction ? Is the crowd still supporting Ole ?
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The crown was numb I suppose. Couldn't believe what we watching. Credit to the singing section they kept singing. The Liverpool crowd had a field day. Christmas came early.
 
pratyush_utd said:
Attacking talent that LVG had is light year behind what Ole has. At least were more solid under LVG and he had to play likes of Paddy Macnair.
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No I meant Van Gaal had us playing better with inferior players. Sorry I didn't word that very well.
 
peridigm said:
I remember one of Ole's first interviews when he took over talking about how unfit our players were and we didn't run enough and we couldn't run enough and that was going to change. What happened to that? Our players look as unfit as they've ever been.
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Ole gave out lot of sound bites when he started like pressing, 433, outworking the opposition etc. When reality hit all of those went out the window. Classic case of illusory superiority, overestimate his capability to implement things he talked about. Talk is cheap and many fans lapped it up.
 
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Andersons Dietician said:
Isn’t there a conversation between me and someone who says they were a coach or around teams or something and denied that patterns of play was a thing. Said it was a buzz phrase made up by the CAF or something and no club uses such terminology.
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Think I remember that actually. ‘Patterns of play lolz. That’s a meme’. Oh turns out it isn’t now we see the dippers put five past us at old Trafford and everyone’s saying it.
 
Womp said:
TBF I don't have as bad an opinion on that system as some on here do. The problem with LVG was his tiki-taka was a more horizontal approach, rather than a vertical approach, but if we continued down that route, when considering our managerial appointments etc. we'd have won some trophies by this stage and playing far better football. We needed to hire another progressive, possession based coach with a more modern outlook on the style, instead we sacked it completely and went with Mourinho then to Ole who are both pragmatic, counter attacking coaches.

At least with LVG, you could see what was being implemented and games like Juanfield where we went head to head with our rivals rather than sitting deep and hoping to counter seem like a pipe dream now.
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I’d agree. You can easily forget we used to play a bit of football at those bigger team grounds under him.
 
Simple question. Who in our team is supposed to track the opponents full backs when they bomb forward?

Robertson and TAA had all the freedom in the world today. I dont remember either being tackled or tracked by Greenwood or Rashford even once. The back 6 then get pulled out of shape.
 
RUCK4444 said:
I didn’t say it would fix every issue, I’ve said the coaching can be questioned, just that the squad (no matter who the managers is) definitely needs a DM.

What’s the first signing you would like the next manager to make? DM. Obviously.

Give me a shout when the next manager is winning us the league with McFred pal :rolleyes:
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We've won leagues with a mixture of some utter crap midfields.

Liverpool just wiped the floor with us playing Henderson, Milner and Keita.

Give me a shout when you wake up and realise that exceptional managers make even imperfect things work, whereas crap ones instead highlight the weaknesses. A top manager would get a squad of midfielders including DVB, Fernandes, Fred, Pogba, McTominay, Matic doing a job that highlights their strengths, rather than highlights and exposes all their weaknesses.
 
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