We are an awfully coached team

[Hugh Jass]

Just getting by through individual brilliance. If Pep or Tuchel had this squad we would win the league.

You just dont know which united will turn up. We can win by four and then drop points.

 

[Ahmer Baig]

No plan B as always. 4231 with two defensive midfielders at home is beyond a joke. Tactically inept. Does Ole know there are other formations besides 4231

 

[devilish]

Too true but the yankee leeches clearly don't give a shit about how poorly we are playing every week, they just want top 4 money and absolutely nothing else matters at all so we are stuck with this situation

every one keeps saying that but is it true? I followed Arsenal and AC Milan when they were in that situation and managers stuck with these sort of owners tend to focus on balancing the books rather then actually winning. I remember Berlusconi going on live TV stating that Kaka won't be sold only for Milan to sell him few weeks later. Leonardo was quite happy with that crap show. On the other hand there's barely any toy Ole wanted that it wasn't given to him. Till the time of writing he had spent around 200m in defense alone. Ole is proven to be a quite expensive top 4 manager.

If you ask me, Ole is kept because he constantly hit the minimum requirements and he's popular with the fans. The latter is a huge issue with the Glazers who know that they are hated by the majority of fans. The moment the United supporters turn against Ole then he'll be a goner.

 

[Borys]

But Varane said Ole pays a lot of attention to coaching and the sessions are very detailed, so it's all good.

Lack of coaching.

Actually whenever we play shite game this tiny clip will convince me I'm absolutely wrong and there's no problem with our coaching. We wouldn't see this bit of play otherwise.

 

[AjaxCunian]

But Varane said Ole pays a lot of attention to coaching and the sessions are very detailed, so it's all good.

Actually whenever we play shite game this tiny clip will convince me I'm absolutely wrong and there's no problem with our coaching. We wouldn't see this bit of play otherwise.

He hasnt got a clue, he and the Wumminator are just wind-ups not interested in any sort of honest discussion.

 

[Eplel]

Does the club have a personal development policy for the staff? Perhaps we could use some budget to set Ole up to do some coaching lessons.

 

[stw2022]

Anyone who claims our approach, style of play and tactical outlook isn’t: ‘hope Bruno has a good game’ is lying to your face.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Does the club have a personal development policy for the staff? Perhaps we could use some budget to set Ole up to do some coaching lessons.

He already has his badges mate!

 

[Trequarista10]

No plan B as always. 4231 with two defensive midfielders at home is beyond a joke. Tactically inept. Does Ole know there are other formations besides 4231

This is what surprises and annoys me. When he first came he played 433. He made some tactical changes in big games too. Away at PSG the first time playing 442. Playing a false 9 and split strikers against Liverpool. Playing wing backs a couple times too. The kind of tweaks and adjustments you'd expect a good manager to make, and most of his decisions worked.

Now, there just isn't a plan B at all. It's repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

 

[Jericholyte2]

I'm trying to think - can we find any player (apart from Luke Shaw and his crossing) that has specifically improved under Ole? I don't mean the likes of Greenwood who is progressing with his natural talent levels, but anyone who Ole (and by extension our coaching team) has specifically improved as a player?

 

[Ronaldo's Love Child]

SURELY there is one coach out there who has an idea about how to beat a low block?

It's not Ole, not Carrick, not Mckenna and doesn't look like Ramsay has a clue either

Someone out there must have a clue?

We shouldn't obsess about a low block.

At times today Villa were pressing high up the pitch.In one incident they had 4 players pressing our RB.

It was quite an open game in my opinion. We just can't break teams down.

We have virtually no crosses coming in from the right flank. AWB is worrying me and I'm not sure Sancho is proving to be the answer either.

DDG is turning into a blame merchant and I've got to be honest so is Bruno. Bruno be causing us issues. His amazing start to his United career seems to make him AND our tactics untouchable

Pogba is a luxury player who might be able to embelish a top side who are already firing on all cylinders.

McFred.....frustrate me also but they are what they are. They are limited in their abilities and if they keep getting picked then is that their fault or the managers?

 

[AjaxCunian]

I'm trying to think - can we find any player (apart from Luke Shaw and his crossing) that has specifically improved under Ole? I don't mean the likes of Greenwood who is progressing with his natural talent levels, but anyone who Ole (and by extension our coaching team) has specifically improved as a player?

I guess Fred but he's still very poor, Rashford went a level up. That's it probably, maybe McTominay.

 

[Robbie Boy]

The match is worth a watch, so if you can, re-watch it. I didn't think we were as terrible as some depict it around here. But certainly we were not forcing anything and it seemed a bit desperate in the end because we looked somewhat clueless as a collective while no individual player was really bad.
Villa earned the win, they had quite a few very good chances and, and I state that to myself, I think the god of football granted them the luck with the penalty in the end to give them the deserved result.

I won't get to watch the full thing, but I'll see it on MOTD. Funnily enough, when I was keeping an eye on the score, I thought it looked like we were doing ok purely from a stats POV. However, I had a few mates who were watching it, saying we were fairly poor in the group chat. Still a very poor result when a win was needed.

 

[spiriticon]

We shouldn't obsess about a low block.

At times today Villa were pressing high up the pitch.In one incident they had 4 players pressing our RB.

It was quite an open game in my opinion. We just can't break teams down.

We have virtually no crosses coming in from the right flank. AWB is worrying me and I'm not sure Sancho is proving to be the answer either.

DDG is turning into a blame merchant and I've got to be honest so is Bruno. Bruno be causing us issues. His amazing start to his United career seems to make him AND our tactics untouchable

Pogba is a luxury player who might be able to embelish a top side who are already firing on all cylinders.

McFred.....frustrate me also but they are what they are. They are limited in their abilities and if they keep getting picked then is that their fault or the managers?

Yeah to be fair we had a lot of space in the first 20 and should have done more. After that, I just felt that in the periods of short dominance in possession, the lack of ideas in breaking down a defence is just so tiring to watch. In the end, we mostly resort to hammering in a hopeful cross but apart from Shaw, nobody can properly cross a ball!!

If I were Ronaldo, I'd be fuming at the quality of the crosses in this team considering he's one of the best in the air. No Shaw, no magic.

 

[D. Mungai]

This is what surprises and annoys me. When he first came he played 433. He made some tactical changes in big games too. Away at PSG the first time playing 442. Playing a false 9 and split strikers against Liverpool. Playing wing backs a couple times too. The kind of tweaks and adjustments you'd expect a good manager to make, and most of his decisions worked.

Now, there just isn't a plan B at all. It's repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

The Spur 6-1 defeat changed him. From there he has stuck with 4231 without blinking

 

[Mockney]

As I’m sure many people have said much better, I’d be a lot more amenable to Ole - who undeniably has his benefits - if I felt he had the fortitude and sense to surround himself with a coaching set up that could cover for his inadequacies… if he’s basing himself on SAF (which we have every reason to believe he is) he’d surely be aware that Fergie had 4 or 5 different coaches in his time, each helping to provide an entirely different tactical approach in each of his successful eras (the Queiros assisted 08 side shared very little with the Kidd or McClaren sides, for example)….

But as is, he somehow seems gormlessly satisfied with a rag tag crew of Carrick & McKenna - both of whom seem to have been here during numerous disastrous regimes without any reprecusion - as well as Mike “big balloon” Phelan, who aside from simply being the last Fergie appointee that wasn’t currently doing anything, was also inadvertently (though probably not) coach during the Fergie era with the least attractive football….Whose last success was based entirely on buying Van Persie and telling everyone to pass to him!

All of which makes me a lot more pessimistic about “the plan” than I would be if I genuinely felt the issue was JUST Ole

in short, I’d be more than happy to keep Ole if I could be confident he could seek out a modern progressive coaching set up… but my biggest concern is that he seems more than happy to continue with the whole “jobs for the boys” bullshit that did for the Liverpool boot room in the 90s, out of sheer loyalty and misguided altruism

 

[NinjaZombie]

This is what surprises and annoys me. When he first came he played 433. He made some tactical changes in big games too. Away at PSG the first time playing 442. Playing a false 9 and split strikers against Liverpool. Playing wing backs a couple times too. The kind of tweaks and adjustments you'd expect a good manager to make, and most of his decisions worked.

Now, there just isn't a plan B at all. It's repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

This! He seemed more progressive when he first came. Now he just seems to have a set way of setting the team up, which isn't working unless his players pull a rabbit out of the hat.

 

[Drifter]

I'm convinced that Ole just throws the players out there in a formation and hopes for the best.

 

[MichaelRed]

SURELY there is one coach out there who has an idea about how to beat a low block?

It's not Ole, not Carrick, not Mckenna and doesn't look like Ramsay has a clue either

Someone out there must have a clue?

What low block? Villa didn't even play a low block. We're just crap against almost everyone.

 

[stw2022]

I'm convinced that Ole just throws the players out there in a formation and hopes for the best.

That's exactly what he does. We don't play with any purpose. We've now got Sancho looking like he's joining VDB on the 'players Ole doesn't know what to do with' list. There'll be others. He's here because he once reminded everyone of the past when being reminded of the past was something that we needed to make ourselves feel better. The beginning, middle and end of the list of qualifications he has for the job he holds.

 

[Majima]

I've been looking back, and I remember having these same debates back in 2019. Back then the narrative was ''Pipe down, give him a few transfer windows to bring in his own players''.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/appointing-solskjaer-was-a-mistake.446742/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/why-are-we-dropping-the-standards-for-ole.450451/

Apr 21, 2019:

He sits there smiling whilst changing nothing in game.

We're going to be left with an incompetent manager who our incompetent owners will struggle to get rid of because our fans want to believe in this romantic notion of him turning into the next Zidane.

I don't need to see any more. He's completely out of his depth. No amount of pretty words will cover that up.

Cliches like the United way etc in the post match press incoming in 3...2...1...

Sept 9, 2019:

After 9 months now, the team is rigid and disjointed, we can't build up properly, nor do we have any idea of what to do vs compact defences. Pogba is on his own in midfield besides the fact he's also being played out of position.

All i see is a bunch of inexperienced kids and dross running around a lot but not in any intelligent meaningful way. The team looks poorly coached. Ole stands there looking clueless almost every match. He's reactive to the matches. The changes always come too late.

With Ole, to this day I still have no clue how he plans to get us competing again, apart from running a lot. We have added AWB & Maguire to the defence and still the defence looks shoddy.

I'm not naive enough to think getting rid of Ole would help solve the issues at the club because the root cause of all our problems stem from the Glazer's management. After-all he wouldnt have got the job in the first place if they weren't incompetent. But I do think Ole is way out of his league vs the upper echelon of managers. Even top 10 coaches are more than a match for him.

Nov 29th, 2019:

Solskjaer and the coaching staff have been here 1 year and we are no closer to solving the same problems as when they first walked in. Vs weaker teams who give us all the time in the world, we still struggle to build up properly, our movement in the final third is a joke and we cannot maintain pressure at all. Everything good we achieve is through flashes of individual brilliance.

Insane that we're still having this same conversation pointing out the same stuff in 2021.

 

[spiriticon]

What low block? Villa didn't even play a low block. We're just crap against almost everyone.

It's not just about Villa today. My frustration is built up over 8 years.

But yes, it did stick out to me today (again) that we have a lack of ideas when they pile the defenders in the box to keep everything tight and restrict us to long shots. I'm sure we're not the only team that faces this, but we have no idea what to do, except to shoot wildly even more.

 

[sullydnl]

We had 55 shots in the last two games, with the amount of actual goal threat generated by that a fraction of what it should have been. 10 shots on target, 21 blocked, 24 off target. That tells you we shouldn't have been taking shots from those positions but instead working the ball to better positions. Which other teams learn to do through, you guessed it, coaching.

 

[MadDogg]

As I’m sure many people have said much better, I’d be a lot more amenable to Ole - who undeniably has his benefits - if I felt he had the fortitude and sense to surround himself with a coaching set up that could cover for his inadequacies… if he’s basing himself on SAF (which we have every reason to believe he is) he’d surely be aware that Fergie had 4 or 5 different coaches in his time, each helping to provide an entirely different tactical approach in each of his successful eras (the Queiros assisted 08 side shared very little with the Kidd or McClaren sides, for example)….

But as is, he somehow seems gormlessly satisfied with a rag tag crew of Carrick & McKenna - both of whom seem to have been here during numerous disastrous regimes without any reprecusion - as well as Mike “big balloon” Phelan, who aside from simply being the last Fergie appointee that wasn’t currently doing anything, was also inadvertently (though probably not) coach during the Fergie era with the least attractive football….Whose last success was based entirely on buying Van Persie and telling everyone to pass to him!

All of which makes me a lot more pessimistic about “the plan” than I would be if I genuinely felt the issue was JUST Ole

in short, I’d be more than happy to keep Ole if I could be confident he could seek out a modern progressive coaching set up… but my biggest concern is that he seems more than happy to continue with the whole “jobs for the boys” bullshit that did for the Liverpool boot room in the 90s, out of sheer loyalty and misguided altruism

That's pretty much exactly how I see it as well. Ole does seem to be a good man manager who has done well (although not perfect) with the team-building, as we obviously have a much better squad now than we did with the previous couple of managers. But the actual coaching of the team with patterns of play and players knowing when and where to move...that's not good at all and doesn't seem to be improving. Ole may not be playing a big role in working on those things in training himself, but it's ultimately up to him to ensure the coaching staff does the necessary work.

 

[stw2022]

I've been looking back, and people were posting (myself included) pages of all this back in 2019. Back then the narrative was ''Pipe down, give him a few transfer windows to bring in his own players''.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/appointing-solskjaer-was-a-mistake.446742/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/why-are-we-dropping-the-standards-for-ole.450451/

Apr 21, 2019:


Sept 9, 2019:


Nov 29th, 2019:


Insane that we're still having this same conversation pointing out the same stuff in 2021.

I never wanted him employed in first place. That post-Jose, feel good, 'sounds of the 90s' run he had immediately after Mourinho went was probably, in hindsight, the worst thing to happen to us.

If that run of games didn't go so well there's not a chance in hell he'd have been given the job on a permanent basis.

 

[redshaw]

This is what surprises and annoys me. When he first came he played 433. He made some tactical changes in big games too. Away at PSG the first time playing 442. Playing a false 9 and split strikers against Liverpool. Playing wing backs a couple times too. The kind of tweaks and adjustments you'd expect a good manager to make, and most of his decisions worked.

Now, there just isn't a plan B at all. It's repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I think Ole has said himself it was McKenna and Carrick during the 4-3-3 run, he implemented his own formation later.

 

[hungrywing]

It's not just about Villa today. My frustration is built up over 8 years.

But yes, it did stick out to me today (again) that we have a lack of ideas when they pile the defenders in the box to keep everything tight and restrict us to long shots. I'm sure we're not the only team that faces this, but we have no idea what to do, except to shoot wildly even more.

When teams used to do this to us during 06-13 I used to feel like our forwards were under instructions to try and win free kicks right around the box.

No idea if that’s true; I’d be interested to see if stats would support the idea.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Lots forget where we were and how we felt before Ole became manager and built this team

 

[LawmanMan]

As much as I don't rate Ole, it would be unfair to sack him at this stage in the season. We have made our bed, now we have to lie in it.

 

[Someone]

As I’m sure many people have said much better, I’d be a lot more amenable to Ole - who undeniably has his benefits - if I felt he had the fortitude and sense to surround himself with a coaching set up that could cover for his inadequacies… if he’s basing himself on SAF (which we have every reason to believe he is) he’d surely be aware that Fergie had 4 or 5 different coaches in his time, each helping to provide an entirely different tactical approach in each of his successful eras (the Queiros assisted 08 side shared very little with the Kidd or McClaren sides, for example)….

But as is, he somehow seems gormlessly satisfied with a rag tag crew of Carrick & McKenna - both of whom seem to have been here during numerous disastrous regimes without any reprecusion - as well as Mike “big balloon” Phelan, who aside from simply being the last Fergie appointee that wasn’t currently doing anything, was also inadvertently (though probably not) coach during the Fergie era with the least attractive football….Whose last success was based entirely on buying Van Persie and telling everyone to pass to him!

All of which makes me a lot more pessimistic about “the plan” than I would be if I genuinely felt the issue was JUST Ole

in short, I’d be more than happy to keep Ole if I could be confident he could seek out a modern progressive coaching set up… but my biggest concern is that he seems more than happy to continue with the whole “jobs for the boys” bullshit that did for the Liverpool boot room in the 90s, out of sheer loyalty and misguided altruism

That sums it up perfectly.

We do seem to be repeating every mistake from the 90s Liverpool playbook.

 

[stw2022]

Lots forget where we were and how we felt before Ole became manager and built this team

Yeah, we finished second the season before. Ridiculously people were suggesting that was a reason why we should stick with a manager when it became clear he wasnt up to the job.

Morons, huh?

 

[HailtotheKing]

Mate, just give it a rest.

The stats are there for all to see, Ole has used more players than Klopp last season and Pep, that's despite Liverpool's supposed injury crisis.

You are clutching at imaginary straws.

Liverpool's performances dropped off massively when they had to make changes, City less so due to the strength they have in depth.

I’d like to see what the stats are for the same first eleven before judging. Sure, Ole brings on many different players late. But I feel like he definitely stick to the same tried and trusted players most games. Hence them being run into the ground. I feel like he did that far more than Klopp or Pepp but I might be wrong. After all they’re not my teams so I don’t follow them as closely .

 

[M16Red]

Lots forget where we were and how we felt before Ole became manager and built this team

I agree, on the pitch results and the football is all that matters. I think he's built a great squad of players - have they built a great team? No

Before I was thinking he'll get there, now I'm not too sure. I also think it's not just Ole the coaching isn't the best or I mean you look at him and think meh... looking at the tablet! I'd be kicking off today they'd all get it.

 

[Eriku]

He hasnt got a clue, he and the Wumminator are just wind-ups not interested in any sort of honest discussion.

Phrases like "hasn’t got a clue" make it seem like you’re not interested in any honest discussion either. Not sure you can take the high road if you’re adding to the polarization.

 

[HailtotheKing]

That sums it up perfectly.

We do seem to be repeating every mistake from the 90s Liverpool playbook.

Yup agree completely. Ole is clearly out of his depth as a coach at this level and he admits it. So why he didn’t brig coaches with more experience to cover his shortcoming I really don’t know. Unless it was an ego thing and he wanted to be the main man. But they all appear to be clueless when we see them on the bench. Constantly in a debate and looking like they have no idea what to do. Which coincidentally often mirrors the team on the pitch too.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yeah, we finished second the season before. Ridiculously people were suggesting that was a reason why we should stick with a manager when it became clear he wasnt up to the job.

Morons, huh?

It's funny how pretend that Ole took over a championship level team. Both the managers before him actually won trophies and like you said we finished 2nd the season before he took over.

I think he deserves credit for stabilising the club and building the squad but he's never looked capable of tuning us into a genuinely top team which is not surprising given his lack pedigree. The maximum I see him achieving at United is one of the smaller cups like his predecessors but as of now he can't even boast of those lesser accolades.

 

[MichaelRed]

Lots forget where we were and how we felt before Ole became manager and built this team

We were playing this same crap football under Mourinho but at least we were winning trophies. Ole-ball is just as boring as anything Mourinho played and we don't even win anything.

 

[stw2022]

We don't play like a team. Haven't since our footballing equivalent of having a piss up to celebrate leaving the ex-wife that we embarked on after Jose left. We've had games, occasional runs. But even when we were churning out results we rarely looked anything other than a side that was scraping by.

The old adage of 'a great side can win when they play poorly' is supposed to be used when a good side occasionally has an off day and still pulls a result out of the bag. It isn't supposed to be a template for the season. Even with the comebacks the comparisons with Fergie's teams was incorrect. Back then we'd win through perseverance, often battering a side into submission. We rarely played like crap and fluked a goal.

He names an XI and hopes for the best, often having as much impact on a game once it's started as a passing pigeon.

 

[Lemansky]

I ain’t in or out with Ole. He has done a very good job in many ways but I hate the way he set up his teams. Fred and Scott at home against Villa is way to defensive and cautious imho. Would love Ole to get this right but games like today makes me lose hope.

I don’t think the grass necessarily is greener with another coach tough. A guy like Pochettino is extremely overrated on here.

Conte is the one that would come in and make us compete short term.

I do hope Ole mixes it up moving forward tough as he will not survive if this continues.

 

[Judas]

I've had the nagging feeling for ages that Ole's taken us as far as he can, still think that's the case. He's done brilliantly well to stable the team, but he's not got the required levels or staff around him to take us that next step.

I don't want to see the potential wasted, because that would be shit. We've got a squad with so much potential, and that was utter slop once again, predictable slop.