Excellent post!
10
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- Goals
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- Assists
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Excellent post!
LOL, maybe you are right about Big Sam. But Luca Toni and the rest of the Bayern Team might disagree with you on LVG lacking balls. He was just crazy.
I'm not sure how Mourinho brought him off in first 2 matches when the game was already won indicates the end of Rooney. Against Hull when we needed a goal the most, he stayed in up until the last minute after we scored. If he was subbed off before the goal I would agree with you.
Regarding LVG and Sam comments, it just them showing faith to the captain of the team. Not seeing anything wrong with that to be honest.
Regarding LVG and Sam comments, it just them showing faith to the captain of the team. Not seeing anything wrong with that to be honest.
I don't think that there's any other way of looking at the Rooney situation other than the fact that as long as he's still chipping in with goals and assists, he will play. Simple as that. If he has a spell which mirrors his first half of the season under LVG last season, Mourinho will drop him.
You don't have a problem with a manager saying "who am I to tell Wayne Rooney where to play"?
That'll be the Wayne Rooney who's never won a single international honour, at any level. Perhaps Sam thinks he's still a domestic football manager.
LVG was just bizarre. Once he decided Rooney was his captain he was always going to get special privileges, because that's just how LVG rolled. I just don't know how managerial decisions to continue to play and start Rooney get blamed on Rooney himself as if he should just go to the manager and tell him to stop picking him all the time. How many player would or have done that previously?
I am not sure why we should be too bothered what Sam says, what we do know is that Rooney is getting older and not any better, but worse. It doesn't matter who he is, if he starts playing like he did under LVG in the first half of last season consistently, he'll be eased out. I am pretty dam sure of that given the team that we now possess. I obviously can't fully speak for England, but then again I am not English so it's United that I care about.
If a manager said that about Messi, he'd get stick. But Wayne Rooney? Feck me.
Its embarrassing that we've ended up in a situation where this quite plausible. I don't think he'll have another season as bad as last season under Mourinho and that seems to be enough for him to get by in the first 11.
Its early, but I'd hate to see us make another Kagawa and Mata out of Mkhitarayan with the favourable attitude towards Rooney.
I know, but as anyone involved in football will tell you, the ability to chip in with goals is the single most valuable asset a player can have. You aren't going to drop a player that misplaces every pass in a game, but scores the winning goal at the same time, as Rooney did at Anfield last season. It sounds ridiculous, but it's the reality.
I somewhat agree that as long as he's chipping in with goals and assists he will play. But my point is that, there are players that can do that and offer more. Furthermore, Rooney can't keep up his record of scoring/assisting every game. No one can.
Mkhitaryan for example. Apart from assisting and scoring, he's a genuinely creative player. And at this level, Rooney shouldn't have to descend to the levels he was last season for him to be dropped.
Overall, I do agree that Mourinho will play him strictly based on form.
That's the sensible way to look at the situation for sure. There are loads who won't though.
And that is the main point. I don't think anyone hates that Rooney chips in but it's very obvious that we can be doing much much better with the other players we have at our disposal. It's like entering a drag race with a Toyota when you have a Mustang parked away. The Toyota will finish the race but you can do better with the Mustang!
That was Louis being favourable to Rooney to have him keep the dressing room on side. A smart move in his first season, but he overplayed that relationship in his second season. "Big Sam" just wanted to remind everyone that he has no business managing at this level.
Unfortunately you're right. Performances, especially with regards to Rooney, seem to be measured in goals, assists and last gasp winners. It's the first defence from Rooney supporters this season.
It is far harder to measure an assumed situation where Mkhitaryan or Mata creating a better attacking unit has us comfortably winning 2-0 going into the last 10 minutes.
The fact is he has rarely been substituted for club or country his entire career. When chasing a goal against Iceland, he was brought off for Rashford. In every competitive game under Mourinho he has been substituted. I can grantee you this, Paul Pogba will not be substituted, nor will Zlatan. Roney eing brought off is a clear and distinct change from the previous 3 seasons. That's a fact. Its a fact that Rooney is in decline and its also a fact we now have a lot more players competing for hi position in the side (what ever he decides his position is for the next few weeks)
Yes, I agree it's sensible. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
But sometimes, following that path can also lead to trouble. Look at Delta, who were using legacy computer systems, and a system crash has now cost them $150 million. US nuke misiles are still using DOS era computers because they still work.
The point I'm trying to make is that United now have a great team, great players, and a great manager. We can win the league this year. But having Rooney remain in the team, although he may be contributing, may well end us costing us dearly. Perhaps I'm judging him over his performances over the last 18 months or so, but I see him holding back the team. We could play with dominance and flair, but with him on the team sheet that's not likely to happen, as he breaks down many of our plays.
I can understand the point you make about it being sensible to keep playing him. But I hope you can also see the point that we have options that can make our team much better.
After all, we all want our team to win and preferably to do it in style.
Messi maybe not, but Ronaldo for sure.
But what if we had a player who didn't misplace passes, and actually scored 1 and assisted 1 in the same game? but because they weren't getting the chance we will never know!
Just because Rooney is doing the bare minimum, is that enough to keep your spot in a hungry squad full of great attackers?
@jojose Excellent post, sums up the situation perfectly.
If we're chasing a game and need a goal, seems like Rooney will stay on as he did against Hull as long as he continues to demonstrate an ability to create chances for himself and others. He was only sacrificed against Hull after we scored the goal as Mourinho wanted to solidify defensively by putting in Smalling.
Based on the first few games it seems like Mata could soon be replaced by Mkhi/Rashford and Rooney's starting spot is still safe for now though Mourinho is inclined to bring him off late in a game when protecting a lead.
Based on the first few games it seems like Mata could soon be replaced by Mkhi/Rashford and Rooney's starting spot is still safe for now though Mourinho is inclined to bring him off late in a game when protecting a lead.
Or it may not who knows and more importantly it's not our decision to make. So far Mourinho has decided that Rooney is in the side and i trust his judgement, if he decides someone else is better over the course of the season then i'll trust his judgement there to.
Brilliant post.
I found it generally disgraceful. I grew up thinking managers were boss. "the gaffer" and all, yet I see nothing but weakness when confronted by Rooney. Wayne doesn't even come across as an imposing figure. he seems quite shy
Rooney needs to stay in the number 10 area if he plays there. No dropping into midfield to play hollywood diagonals.
whats happened is he has convinced himself that he can be the new Scholes. The media has said it and he says he wants to fill that role so is fixated on showing the world his passing range.
That's true. He's not 'imposing' but I suspect he's rather sneaky, and knows whose arse to kiss at the FA and probably Woodward at United.
At the moment, it's all if's, but's or maybe's, in regards to how we would if Rooney was replaced by someone else. Fact is, as you said, he has been productive, and I guess, as the saying goes, if it's not broke, don't fix it.
I think that's how Jose is looking at it at the moment. I mean, Rooney's not the only player who hasn't performed at a level one would feel is not good enough. To me, apart from goals, so far Ibrahimovic hasn't shown much, in my opinion, which, if we're playing a guessing game, begs the question as to how much better we would have been if Rashford was on instead of Zlatan, for example. Fact is, no one will know.
As you said, we now have a much stronger squad now, and competition for starting positions are a lot more competitive which is good. Rooney, along with everyone else, who people seem to forget when discussing the squad, should be dropped if they're not pulling their weight. That's normal, whether you're captain or a newly promoted player from the U21's.
Last point I want to make is about the games and where you mentioned Rooney being subbed. First of all, Rooney was taken off in the 88th min against Leicester, 89th min against Bournemouth and 89th minute against Southampton. We were winning all of those games before he came off, two of which he was replaced by defence minded players to sure it up, despite wining by a two goal margin in both games.
Now, if you look at the game against Hull, where we needed a goal, interestingly, Jose kept Rooney on, unlike the other games where the games were more or less won, and guess what, Rooney pops up last second and creates an great assist for Rashford, and we win the game 1-0.
We're not going to get Rooney of old, but regardless of performances, more often than not, he will bag you a goal or assist, which is why he was kept on. However, I do agree that now we have a bigger squad, it will be harder for Rooney to get away with some of the performances we saw from him last year, but as I said, that applies to everyone.
Bookmarked!
Yet He threw LVG under the bus. Ssssssssssnake!
Wait till he does the same to Sam as he did with Woy! Save yourself José!!!
You are wrong. Nobody has the ability to score the goals Rooney has in the manner in which Rooney did.
The Fact is, Rooney scored goals and England qualified when Rooney doesn't score, England don't qualify. Harry Kane doesn't score...
Yep good point, and even in the Hull game once we went one up he was again taken off for a defensive player.
A sole striker needs a good AM that can position himself. Having a wooden log at his back will seriously hamper his game.
Unless you expect him to solo dribble 5 players and score ala messi
I don't agree with much of this but oddest part to me is how you say you think mikhi would have had the same assists and goals.
What if I say "oh zlatan has been good but you know despite his goals his movement is a bit slow at times. Im sure if rashford was playing he'd have the same goals and better movement"
You see it doesn't just work on "what you think". There is always ifs and buts when it comes to Rooney. Also they can both play. We have many options. If you're worried about overall play then what about marital who has been dreadful so far.
Fact is Rooney has been one of our better players so far and the manager sees that.
Rooney scores 1 goal in all his career in the final stages.
So what would you do with Martial?
I'm interested to know how form works with you guys. Three PL games and Rooney deserves to be in the team because of his contribution. Martial was the standout player from the entirity of last season and he deserves to be dropped? Is that right?
Mourinho is also just smart. Taking off captain takes longer than regular sub. Those pesky armbands.
But he hasn't though. Statistically yes, but not performance wise, and that's exactly the problem.
This goes in circles. I was pointing out how there is an emphasis on form rather than end product. If that is the case, Martial is not performing well either but the backlash is not even half as bad. I understand why it isn't too an extent but the rest of it can only be attributed to this on going belief of Rooney being some evil devil paying journalists and enjoying his contract with must play clauses.
The only reason I would drop Martial is because he is 20 and it would drive him on. As a youngster it is important to drop players when they don't perform well so they understand a spot is not guaranteed. If Martial was an established player I would see through the bad form. All this is unrelated though.
At the end of the day everyone can argue about "performances". It is subjective. Statistics are the only thing that stand as facts. How else can someone prove they are performing well or not?
EDIT: And I don't just mean goals and assists. Look at passes, touches etc. He's doing well on all statistics but apparently he has been terrible
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