[SteveJ]

Even established journalists are using the "At least Rooney's not as bad as *player x*!" technique. Absolutely desperate stuff.

It's easy to knock Wayne Rooney, but he hasn't wasted his talent like Mario Balotelli:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ws-mario-balotelli-wayne-rooney-a7228486.html

 

[Dante]

Even established journalists are using the "At least Rooney's not as bad as *player x*!" technique. Absolutely desperate stuff.

It's easy to knock Wayne Rooney, but he hasn't wasted his talent like Mario Balotelli:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ws-mario-balotelli-wayne-rooney-a7228486.html

Clearly Rooney hasn't wasted his talent. He's one of the most decorated players in the history of the game.

That article doesn't add anything to the debate about whether or not he should play the next match.

 

[Gazza]

He's a leader. He works harder than anyone. He pulls the strings on the pitch. He asks for the ball whenever someone's in need of an out-ball. He's not shy of taking risks and shooting on goal.

This forum really needs to understand football better. Rooney has been pivotal to every manager he's played under, and Mourinho is no different. Football Manager 2016 be damned.

Disagree with a lot of what you wrote but the part in bold in particular. I stand to be corrected but most of the time he's played this season he has been receiving the ball in the middle third of the pitch, typically closer to our center backs than to our forward players. Has he really been helping players out of tight spots as you claim? Because that would be a very useful contribution, but I didn't see much of it in our first 3 games.

If anything, he's been playing the David Batty role, almost demanding the ball from defensive players in his own half when it's quite unnecessary.

 

[dichinero]

He's a leader. He works harder than anyone. He pulls the strings on the pitch. He asks for the ball whenever someone's in need of an out-ball. He's not shy of taking risks and shooting on goal.

This forum really needs to understand football better. Rooney has been pivotal to every manager he's played under, and Mourinho is no different. Football Manager 2016 be damned.

He's a leader? Evra was a leader, Rio was a leader, whenever Bastian played he looked liked the leader. You need to know the difference between a captain and a leader, with all respect. Without seeing any armband, you could easily spot Terry, Gerrard, Kompany, Williams, Morgan etc as the leaders in the team. Rooney is the deserving captain of United and England simply based on profile and experience and not leadership. He may be a leader off the pitch as reports suggest but on the pitch is what we want to see, not dressing room banter! That said, our team is not blessed with leaders.

I disagree with this notion that Rooney works harder than any one. Just because a player plays with a dogged attitude, it doesn't mean he works harder than other players. Blind is a solid hard worker, Iniesta is a hard worker and they probably clock more mileage than Rooney per 90 mins but it's not obvious because they pay silky smooth. Not saying he's not a hard worker but it's an all too common excuse that he works harder than anyone else. A proper hardwork is one that exerts himself beyond what his natural game is like Park and Fletcher, Rooeny's dogged style IS THE ONLY WAY he can play.

It's easy to ask for the ball and look like a midfield maestro when you excuse your self from the action and drop unnecessarily deep. The England match was a classic example; dropping back 30 yards and stand next to a team mate who's only 5 yards from you and sticking your hands out is not impressive, especially when it ends in pointless Hollywood passes. Herrera is the best at the demanding the ball, unfortunately he doesn't do much with it at the moment.

 

[Jaybomb]

I'm just glad nobody is comparing him to Pirlo anymore, whenever he gives his "Hollywood Pass" out to the wing.

Talk about cringe. I hope I never see this "Rooney as a CM" experiment ever again.

 

[dichinero]

I'm just glad nobody is comparing him to Pirlo anymore, whenever he gives his "Hollywood Pass" out to the wing.

Talk about cringe. I hope I never see this "Rooney as a CM" experiment ever again.

It's a trend from the white Pele as a forward to the next Paul Scholes as a AM, to the next Pirlo as a CM. Still time for the next Patrick Vieira as a DM, Pique as a CB and Petr Schmikes as a GK!

 

[Dante]

His long passes are mostly very good. That's an odd thing to criticise him over.

He has plenty of weaknesses. The fact his detractors pick the things that MOTD highlights speaks volumes about how they watch football.

I think it's fairly even between Rooney and Mikhitaryan for what it's worth. Rooney shades it on his leadership qualities.

 

[spwd]

He's a leader. He works harder than anyone. He pulls the strings on the pitch. He asks for the ball whenever someone's in need of an out-ball. He's not shy of taking risks and shooting on goal.

This forum really needs to understand football better. Rooney has been pivotal to every manager he's played under, and Mourinho is no different. Football Manager 2016 be damned.

What a load of nonsense, seriously this must be a wum.

Under his "leadership" United have slumped to 7th, 4th, 5th and England were knocked out of the Euros by Iceland.
Vidic was also a leader, so was Ferdinand, didn't stop them leaving when it was obvious they were done.

Working harder than anyone is hardly good enough to be playing for Manchester United, if that was the case Lingard would be one of the first names on the team sheet.

Pulling the strings? Bar a few moments of brilliance he is for the most part anonymous for the majority of games, mixed with a few failed attempts at cross-field passes and bad first touches. Getting the ball and recycling it out to the wing isn't "pulling the strings". What Iniesta does is pulling the strings, what Modric does, what Mkhitryan can do.

Asking for the ball is also not exactly good enough to be a Manchester United player either unfortunately, Nani could be absolutely dire and would still continue to ask for the ball, didn't save his career with us despite him not declining as rapidly as Wayne has.
Not shy of taking risks? He ruins countless potential attacks because he doesn't attempt the risky ball or run, instead turning and looking for a back pass, as mentioned a few moments of brilliance in a game isn't enough to be playing in such a vital position for a team that has aspirations to be one of Europe's elite again.

He lost the ball 3 times in a matter of a few seconds, if he can't deal with Hull City's pressing what makes you feel confident he could deal with that of the best teams in the world. Unforuntately not every team we play is Hull City, where we will create a thousand chances and our mistakes won't be punished. Losing the ball in such a dangerous area, not once but three fecking times back to back against a capable team and that would have result in a goal most likely. Losing the ball in the middle of the pitch to the likes of Messi, Iniesta, Suarez, Neymar, Ronaldo, Modric etc. and we would be counting our blessings.

I don't care for Rooney playing against the weaker teams that can't punish us, but playing in games of high intesity and pressing, he just doesn't have it in him anymore. I don't feel confident at all with him losing the ball in our half to the likes of Silva, KDB, Sterling and Aguero etc. next week, due to a diabolical first touch.

Whether or not he's been pivotal isn't very relevant, he was pivotal under LVG, Moyes and fecking Hodgson, the same way Troy Deeney is pivotal for his club, doesn't make him any better of a player or Watford any more successful as a club. He was pivotal under SAF granted, but he could play football back then, times have changed, not to add SAF's last hurrah was trying to get rid of him. Neville was pivotal to our club, lets bring him out of punditry and give him the shirt back.

Very well said sir, these fanboys are so blinded it's fecking embarrassing, there's no agenda against him he's just generally shit and we would be better off with someone else in his place, yes he's had a few assists etc but so would the person who replaced him and I'm sure they wouldn't feck up our attacks like he does and actually stick to the position the damn manager told you to play, not fecking wandering around the defence like he was the other day, infact it doesn't matter where he's told to play because he will always default too deep and getting in other people's way!

 

[spwd]

His long passes are mostly very good. That's an odd thing to criticise him over.

He has plenty of weaknesses. The fact his detractors pick the things that MOTD highlights speaks volumes about how they watch football.

I think it's fairly even between Rooney and Mikhitaryan for what it's worth. Rooney shades it on his leadership qualities.

What leadership qualities? Other than arguing with the ref and moaning and blaming the player who passed to him when he let it bounce off his shins again I really don't see anything at all!

 

[Dante]

If he couldn't stick to his position, Mourinho would drop him.

 

[Dante]

What leadership qualities? Other than arguing with the ref and moaning and blaming the player who passed to him when he let it bounce off his shins again I really don't see anything at all!

More fool you.

 

[dichinero]

His long passes are mostly very good. That's an odd thing to criticise him over.

He has plenty of weaknesses. The fact his detractors pick the things that MOTD highlights speaks volumes about how they watch football.

I think it's fairly even between Rooney and Mikhitaryan for what it's worth. Rooney shades it on his leadership qualities.

Other that the fact that Micky has had fewer minutes he is undeniably better than Rooney physically, technically, ability wise, no question! Shades it on leadership qualities is meh!

 

[Dante]

Other that the fact that Micky has had fewer minutes he is undeniably better than Rooney physically, technically, ability wise, no question! Shades it on leadership qualities is meh!

Only if you're controlling them with an XBox controller. Leadership qualities count for a lot in the real world.

 

[manunited1919]

This is clearly exaggeration.

Let's see the exagerations. Rooney's ego is the biggest exaggeration. He has such a view of himself that he is able to play any position. And any shortcomings are the other player's fault, or the philosophy's fault (ie manager's fault). But by many reports, he has an exaggerated influence on the dressing room (not on the pitch). And obviously, he knows how to pulls the strings to influence managers in exaggerated ways, just ask LVG and Big Sam. And his media friends are quick to exaggerate any normal skill he possesses, while ignoring his failings.

These are the special skills that make him so exaggeratedly difficult for a manager to drop.

 

[Dante]

Let's see the exagerations. Rooney's ego is the biggest exaggeration. He has such a view of himself that he is able to play any position. And any shortcomings are the other player's fault, or the philosophy's fault (ie manager's fault). But by many reports, he has an exaggerated influence on the dressing room (not on the pitch). And obviously, he knows how to pulls the strings to influence managers in exaggerated ways, just ask LVG and Big Sam. And his media friends are quick to exaggerate any normal skill he possesses, while ignoring his failings.

These are the special skills that make him so exaggeratedly difficult for a manager to drop.

Any proof of those conspiracy theories?

Does he control the world banks as well?

 

[Mourinhonista]

I didn't see him play for England last week, but so far for United he's trying, imo. That cross for Ibra was top notch, if all players were fit, he could find himself on the bench from time to time, but that's not the case, so i can live with the Rooney of 2016 in the team. I actually think that Mourinho's coaching helped him, long may it continue. Hope i'm not the fool here.

City are no dilettantes these days, it's gonna be interesting to see what Wayne will be able to do at Old Trafford. I'm expecting something, fingers crossed!

 

[ManRant]

Let's see the exagerations. Rooney's ego is the biggest exaggeration. He has such a view of himself that he is able to play any position. And any shortcomings are the other player's fault, or the philosophy's fault (ie manager's fault).

The bold part, has Rooney ever blames any other players? If you are talking about the fans then fair enough but most here blame Rooney than any United players so I'm not sure what are you talking about. As for the manager's fault, I thought it is well accepted here that Moyes and LVG were out of depth at United, or are you disagreeing with this? And believe that it is all actually Rooney's fault?

But by many reports, he has an exaggerated influence on the dressing room (not on the pitch). And obviously, he knows how to pulls the strings to influence managers in exaggerated ways, just ask LVG and Big Sam. And his media friends are quick to exaggerate any normal skill he possesses, while ignoring his failings.

These are the special skills that make him so exaggeratedly difficult for a manager to drop.

How do you know all this? Have you asked them? Hyperbole everywhere.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Works harder than anyone, pulls the strings?..... yet we're the ones who need to understand football better. There's definitely something about him only you English guys see. And here I was thinking Scholes, Rio and Danny Murphy just talk shit when it comes to Rooney, they actually watch him and think he's amazing

 

[Lawman]

Works harder than anyone, pulls the strings?..... yet we're the ones who need to understand football better. There's definitely something about him only you English guys see. And here I was thinking Scholes, Rio and Danny Murphy just talk shit when it comes to Rooney, they actually watch him and think he's amazing

Danny Murphy said the other night on talk sport 'whilst Wayne is still playing well and scoring goals for United he should still be picked for England and he's doing great with United week in week out and has been for years' me and my mate were for phoning him up!

 

[Lawman]

Any proof of those conspiracy theories?

Does he control the world banks as well?

Thought that was Ed?

 

[BigTimeCharlie]

This is a really silly way of looking at it. Yes, Rooney's goals have been valuable for England but if you take him out of the side then someone else replaces him who would probably still score an alright number of goals. It's like saying we'd have come 5th if we didn't have Ronaldo in 07/08 - it ignores external factors, as well as the fact that simply eliminating a goalscorer for a team doesn't always eliminate those goals.

There is an English striker that can score 53 in 115 apps that isnt rooney? Last time i checked the only player anywhere near him were retired.

You seem like the type of guy that when presented with 18 in Blackjack you wohld hit again, crazy.

 

[BigTimeCharlie]

4 Games, 3 assists and 1 goal, constructive.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Rooney edges over Mikitaryan? Jesus wept.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Jesus, man up!

 

[dichinero]

Danny Murphy said the other night on talk sport 'whilst Wayne is still playing well and scoring goals for United he should still be picked for England and he's doing great with United week in week out and has been for years' me and my mate were for phoning him up!

Lay down the law @Lawman

 

[Adisa]

Danny Murphy said the other night on talk sport 'whilst Wayne is still playing well and scoring goals for United he should still be picked for England and he's doing great with United week in week out and has been for years' me and my mate were for phoning him up!

Again just shows you, pundits don't watch him.

 

[SwansonsTache]

His long passes are mostly very good. That's an odd thing to criticise him over.

He has plenty of weaknesses. The fact his detractors pick the things that MOTD highlights speaks volumes about how they watch football.

I think it's fairly even between Rooney and Mikhitaryan for what it's worth. Rooney shades it on his leadership qualities.

His long passing game is wildly overrated. He mostly hits "floaters" which take ages to reach their intended target, giving the opposition FB time to position themself to intercept. While true masters of the long pass like Scholes hit them hard with a spin, which is so much harder to intercept and so much harder to pull off.

Try it yourself, hitting those backwards spinning floaters are easy compared to the other option (don't know what it is called).

 

[jojose]

Individually he’s started the season productively with assists and goals. Collectively we have 9 points from 3 games and two clean sheets

That would suggest all is well. And it is. But I personally think it could be better though. Going into the season I was delighted with the squad but had a concern over 3 positions. Centre back, holding midfield and right back. Bailly has come in and been superb, Antonio Valencia and Fellaini equally so, or at least equally as effective so far. Would Mikitaryan have directly contributed to 4 goals in our first 3 games? From what I have seen of him so far, yeah he would. Would he have offered a greater threat higher up the pitch? Yeah I think so. Would he inject yet more pace into the side? Definitely. Technically is his touch better allowing Blind for example to ping passes into him? Definitely.

For the last 3 seasons Rooney’s form has almost been irrelevant because it’s true, he wasn’t as bad as others. The fact our goal keepers has been our POTY says everything. The fact he’s English, has been here a good few years, is robust and is relatively attritional has defaulted him into a squad that has seen a high turnover of players who on the most part have been foreign, lightweight, inexperienced in the league, injury prone and incredibly poor form. Aside for Martial last year and the emergence of Rashford, can a genuine argument be made for any midfielder or forward over the previous 3 season being a better option than Rooney (despite how poor he’s been)?? I don’t think so.

We now have Pogba, Ibrahimovic, Bailly who despite being new to the league are all leaders, are all personalities, are all physical presences and all being good player to boot give us a stronger spine that we have had for a long time. Add a resurgent and effective Fellaini, a hungry Juan Mata, an elite level goal assist machine in Miki, the potential and superior threat, pace and technique of Rashford and Martial. The option to use Carrick as a quarterback or Schniderlin as “destroyer”. The option of a hardworking, pacey winger in Lingaard. Even the potential that Memphis could actually be a player (there is one in there I am sure). Ander Herrera to operate as a midfielder or in the hole. All of these options fill the front 6 positions. When we had RVP and Falcao, Rooney came out and said “I am a number 10 or a midfielder now” LVG even said it. When they went to shit and we didn’t have a serious option upfront then Rooney decided he was a striker again. Martial and Rashford come in and he’s back to being a midfielder again. He might still get away with that with England but with the new signings and Rashford and Martial he simply doesn’t have the technical ability, the pace, the goal scoring ability, the creativity to guarantee his place irrespective of form now. We don’t need his physicality. We don’t need his experience and we don’t need his leadership. Wayne Rooney now holds no trump card, attribute or skill that makes him un-droppable.

And it shows.

He was hooked in the Charity Shield (he was awful) and despite 3 productive games in the league, he’s been brought off in every league game. Moyes never brought him off. LVG never brought him off. Has he ever been sub in two consecutive games??? i doubt it. Never mind 4. This is the beginning of the end for Rooney at United. The substitutions will get earlier and eventually turn to him sat on the bench. With the fixtures piling up from now on Miki and Rashford etc will get there chance to make them first choice, I think they’ll take it.

The dressing room influence is also now not an issue. Not one player in our squad will question Mourinho dropping Rooney for Zlatan, Rashford, Mata, Miki.

The irony is that playing less, coming off the bench and having all these better than him players around him, will only help Rooney extend his time here, break more records and win more trophies. The question is if he can accept not being automatic first choice superstar. He knows his time as that is running out for club and country as in every interview he’s justifying is performance and input.

 

[Adam-Utd]

He's a leader. He works harder than anyone. He pulls the strings on the pitch. He asks for the ball whenever someone's in need of an out-ball. He's not shy of taking risks and shooting on goal.

This forum really needs to understand football better. Rooney has been pivotal to every manager he's played under, and Mourinho is no different. Football Manager 2016 be damned.

Sorry Dante but have you time warped back to 2010 or something? His time of working hard and pulling strings is long gone now. He would rather woddle about in the middle of the pitch hitting 40 yard hollywood passes. He's clearly been studying Stevie G's gameplay of the end of his career thinking he can get away with it too

 

[Mrs Smoker]

87-89-89-93.

 

[Smores]

His long passing game is wildly overrated. He mostly hits "floaters" which take ages to reach their intended target, giving the opposition FB time to position themself to intercept. While true masters of the long pass like Scholes hit them hard with a spin, which is so much harder to intercept and so much harder to pull off.

Try it yourself, hitting those backwards spinning floaters are easy compared to the other option (don't know what it is called).

He has neither the creative passing qualities of Giggs or accuracy of Scholes. Like you say his balls which are very predictable slow the game down. He's in Charlie Adam mode.

All the merit to him for trying to extend his game but it'd be nice if he practised it in training rather than during a match.

 

[Joga Bonito]

He's a leader. He works harder than anyone. He pulls the strings on the pitch. He asks for the ball whenever someone's in need of an out-ball. He's not shy of taking risks and shooting on goal.

This forum really needs to understand football better. Rooney has been pivotal to every manager he's played under, and Mourinho is no different. Football Manager 2016 be damned.

 

[Born2Lose]

He's a leader. He works harder than anyone. He pulls the strings on the pitch. He asks for the ball whenever someone's in need of an out-ball. He's not shy of taking risks and shooting on goal.

This forum really needs to understand football better. Rooney has been pivotal to every manager he's played under, and Mourinho is no different. Football Manager 2016 be damned.

Like Gerrard before him, most headless chickens do work hard. At the age of 30 he should have a lot more in his repertoire than simply running around. Unfortunately the phrase "work smarter, not harder" will never apply to players like Rooney or Gerrard.

 

[Perrick Dubois]

There is an English striker that can score 53 in 115 apps that isnt rooney? Last time i checked the only player anywhere near him were retired.

Crouch, Vassell, Defoe or Welbeck. Take your pick at who would be England's top scorer. None of them have come close since Owen, but yeah. Somebody would score an "alright number of goals" no? Such a farcical position to argue from. This thread has more spin than a yellow jersey contender, it is getting to ridiculous levels now.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

12-1 would be our goal difference now if not for him.

 

[ManRant]

12-1 would be our goal difference now if not for him.

If not for him we are with 12 points in 3 games.

 

[ManRant]

Edit: double post

 

[manunited1919]

How do you know all this? Have you asked them? Hyperbole everywhere.

LVG saying publicly that he would ask Rooney to make team selections and the kitchen and members of the staff.
http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/34101239

Big Sam just last weekend allowed Rooney to decide his own role in the team. Isn't that the manager's job?
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ey-sam-allardyce-england-world-cup-qualifying


If these are not clear examples Of a player having an exaggerated influence over a manager then I don't know what is.

 

[AR87]

I understand why people think the team would benefit by replacing him with Mkhi as our 10, but I don't know why anybody is trying to brush aside his end product. Mkhi could come in and be able to easily trump Rooney's production based on how he played last year in Germany, but it's not guaranteed and when it boils down to it, for as quick and positive as Mkh looked, Rooney is the one that created the goal against Hull to win us the points.

This isn't meant to say Rooney should start over Mkhi, but rather that I think anybody that insists he's done at this level and should be flogged off to MLS or China is being way over the top. Rooney still has it in him to produce the goods, just not as consistently as he did at his peak. It's up to the manager to start using him more as a squad player than a guaranteed starter, shoehorned into the side.

 

[AR87]

LVG saying publicly that he would ask Rooney to make team selections and the kitchen and members of the staff.
http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/34101239

Big Sam just last weekend allowed Rooney to decide his own role in the team. Isn't that the manager's job?
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ey-sam-allardyce-england-world-cup-qualifying


If these are not clear examples Of a player having an exaggerated influence over a manager then I don't know what is.

Those are examples of managers lacking balls