[stevoc]

It didn't matter though did it?

If Keane had been the Keane of 1999 would Fergie have pushed him out? This is a manager who gave players mid-season holidays and drove around on the back of a motorbike to convince Cantona not to quit the game.

Keano was moved on because, on the cost benefit analysis, Fergie decided his usefulness no longer outweighed the cons of keeping him. The same thing happened to a bunch of other legends. Why treat Rooney differently?

Well yeah it sort of does, because it ties into my point. At the time Keane left he was still basically a first team player at 34. Had he not had his fall out with Ferguson he would likely still been a regular in the side that season once fit again and then maybe even a squad players for a few seasons after that. Despite not being anywhere near the player he once was. I reckon like Giggs, Scholes, Robson he would have been kept around as a squad member longer than the majority of other players would have been.

They got special treatment for their long service and their status. Rooney shouldn't be an automatic starter and arguably not even a starter but he will be around in the squad for a few years yet for similar reasons.

You say Rooney shouldn't be an automatic starter, yet the England manager is saying he should play where he wants, and some on the CAF think questioning that is wrong out of principle.

The bolded part i said yes, don't remember saying or agreeing with any of the rest of it. Personally couldn't give a toss what the manager of England says or thinks about Rooney. Or Rooney's England career in general, i personally think he should have retired from internationals.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Why? Because Rooney is a legend!

He is the greatest goalscorer that England has ever produced! And yes this means he has special privileges.

And guess what... Whoever breaks Rooney 's scoring records some decades in the future... he will also get special privileges!!! Hard to believe???

Im glad you're no manager.

 

[Handré1990]

Well you didn't attempt to dismiss everyone that disagreed with you as some sort of lunatic so it's always easier to reply and an increasingly rare occurrence in here.

This thread has just gotten out of hand, people are getting rubbed the wrong way simply because other people think differently about a player. Both sides are entrenched and we are all a bit militant at this point. Dunno how we got here, but we are here. I'm not innocent and not pointing the finger, but we have reached a weird place. I doubt anyone is going to back down at this point though, we all have our views and rightly or wrongly the nefarious bastard that is Wayne Rooney seems to be either plundering the depths we expect him to or meeting our expectations on a weekly basis. At this point I'm not even sure he's real.

Both sides have attempted to explain their stance over and over again, but we can't seem to find common ground despite the fact we all support the same bloody team.

The whole bolded part is just brilliant, I actually laughed out loud at the "At this point I'm not even sure he's real" The rest of your post is pure gospel. I like your writing style!

I have full confidence in Mourinho's ability to solve the situation though, so, like I mentioned earlier, I'm not going to let the Rooney conundrum eat away at me until the opposite is proven.

Have a nice evening, Art!

 

[clarkydaz]

Give over! That's a daft thing to say. People just can't understand why Rooney is being indulged as he is.

Why must Rooney play deeper? Sheringham, Zola, Bergkamp etc. none of them played deeper in their latter career. They played as second strikers from start to finish. Nobody has explained why Rooney must drop back? Why? Because Scholes did it. Newsflash, Rooney ain't Scholes. His performances in midfield show that.

Why can't Rooney just accept, like Teddy did, that he's better served conserving his energy and just coming alive in bursts around the box. When he does that he can still produce e.g. at Hull a week or so ago. Why is he so hellbent to go chasing the ball and then hitting long diagonals, often to nobody?

The reason we have got to this place is because we have allowed Rooney to believe he's bigger than Man Utd. Rooney has convinced himself that he's a midfielder, and he has convinced himself that he's such a great midfielder nobody should object to him playing there. Its madness. It all feeds into this sense that Rooney is given special privileges not afforded to the likes of Robbo, Sparky, the lads that won us the Treble, Ruud etc. Everyone of them had to toe the line but Rooney? Nah. He does what he wants. Its so un-Manchester United like.

Its eerily like the worship Liverpool gave Gerrard when he was hobbling about hitting Hollywood balls, long after his engine had gone. As someone used to Fergie ruthlessly getting rid of players whose best days were behind them, I can't get use to this.

its the sense of entitlement that he must continue to play no matter what cost, in other people's positions is absurd. Basically he says he saw Scholes, Gerrard and Giggs extend their careers on the biggest stage, so I'm doing it aswell. I don't recall Scholes telling the media he would be changing positions, pretty sure SAF might have had a say in it. Then Jose has to come out and say 'nah mate'. Gerrard was completely found out a year later at quarterback, and a disaster at the World Cup

 

[dichinero]

its the sense of entitlement that he must continue to play no matter what cost, in other people's positions is absurd. Basically he says he saw Scholes, Gerrard and Giggs extend their careers on the biggest stage, so I'm doing it aswell. I don't recall Scholes telling the media he would be changing positions, pretty sure SAF might have had a say in it. Then Jose has to come out and say 'nah mate'. Gerrard was completely found out a year later at quarterback, and a disaster at the World Cup

That's what I don't get. Is he not handsomely overpaid? IIRC, the likes of Giggs and Scholes did not earn close to the astronomical amounts that Rooney has so far earned and these are the guys, though maybe not as marketable but they the ones that really deserved the entitlement, yet they were treated like regular players. Quite baffling really.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Sorry Wayne, United have very high ambitions and we feel that we need to allow other players to flourish and contribute to our vision moving forward. We hope you enjoy Shanghai's famous dumplings.

 

[shamans]

Who else remembers how the fans were towards Giggs 2006 ish? Whole anti Rooney sentiment feels the same.

 

[SirAF]

Apologies if posted already.

Sam Allardyce on Rooney - 'he plays wherever he wants', and 'I can't stop him from playing where he wants'...

Sam reminds me so much of Vern Scripps in Heartbeat

 

[nick2004]

Who else remembers how the fans were towards Giggs 2006 ish? Whole anti Rooney sentiment feels the same.

It's the same. A little worse with Rooney because he is a scouse who beat Fergie in their feud and some fans took this as a personal insult.

 

[nick2004]

Some comments here have been deemed to be over-the-top against Rooney.

Well, I wonder then what words will be used to describe articles such as this one:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/sam-allardyce-already-making-mistakes-112158488.html

Warning, if you are in the pro-Rooney camp you won't enjoy reading this.

Alex Netherton? Is this the great Alex, the conqueror, the legend, the best pundit ever?

 

[Devil may care]

Special privileges? It sounds like something from a porno, this is a game of what have you done for me lately, Gary Neville remains a shining beacon to these greedy feckers that cling around the bowl long after they've been crapped out by the anus of life.

 

[nick2004]

Im glad you're no manager.

I'm glad mourinho is the manager. He will keep Rooney beyond 2019,you will see.

 

[Sammyjunn]

I'm glad mourinho is the manager. He will keep Rooney beyond 2019,you will see.

If he does, he will win feck all and get himself out of a job. Unless he keeps him as a squad player at best.

 

[dichinero]

I'm convinced that there is an agenda against the success of United going forward! #rooneyfanboys #agenda

 

[manunited1919]

Alex Netherton? Is this the great Alex, the conqueror, the legend, the best pundit ever?

Let's not pretend what he wrote hasno value because he is not a recognized zed pundit. The fact is he is being published in a widely read platform such as Yahoo.UK. So it doesn't really matter if he is not a well known pundit.

I take it you don't like his message, since you want to kill the messenger. In All fairness, nothing I have read in this message board has been so over the top as that article.

 

[.Rossi]

Finally!!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/englands-wayne-rooney-should-out-8780967

 

[stevoc]

Finally!!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/englands-wayne-rooney-should-out-8780967

Shilts is probably hoping Rooney does a U-turn and retires now so he can keep his appearance record.

He's right though, he should retire from Internationals and concentrate on his club career.

 

[Gazza]

It's a bloody football forum, not a One Direction fan club. Stop being such a teenage girl and instead try constructively discussing Rooney the Manchester United player, instead of focusing on nonsense like love & hate. I doubt many, if any, on here actually hate him. The majority of simply fed up of his poor performances. It's exacerbating having to debate each week whether Rooney was slightly worse than the week before, or whether his slightly less poor performance was a good performance in general or merely a good performance by Rooney's standards, which these days is usually a poor performance by anyone elses standards. Around and around in circles we go...

Great post !

So was @#07 's. Couldn't agree more

 

[roseguy64]

88 pages already? Wow.

 

[spwd]

Some comments here have been deemed to be over-the-top against Rooney.

Well, I wonder then what words will be used to describe articles such as this one:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/sam-allardyce-already-making-mistakes-112158488.html

Warning, if you are in the pro-Rooney camp you won't enjoy reading this.

All so very true.

 

[spwd]

Finally!!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/englands-wayne-rooney-should-out-8780967

Let's hope it keeps coming and he's played when he should be, not all the damn time.

 

[Minimalist]

Latest Football Weekly (Guardian) tears right into him within the first three minutes. Everyone of them see him as useless and prime reason for how slow England are. In particular one (Barry Glendenning) stating his bemusement of all these recent managers bar Ferguson who can't get over their infatuation with Rooney (re: Big Sam gaff) despite being a poor performer for them.

Tide has definitely turned recently in terms of the journalists.

 

[SteveJ]

Allardyce was moved to respond to questions about Rooney’s playing position with some comments so absurd I’ve read them at least 10 times and am still convinced he must have said them for a dare.

Smaller Sam, Big Wayne and another perplexing week for the England team:
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ey-sam-allardyce-england-world-cup-qualifying

 

[NinjaZombie]

Smaller Sam, Big Wayne and another perplexing week for the England team:
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ey-sam-allardyce-england-world-cup-qualifying

That Paul Grimes fella in the comments brought up a very good point. Everyone of those England players are more experienced than Allardyce. Big Sam wasn't thinking clear when he said that.

 

[nick2004]

When Rooney and big Sam finally leave, the national team will return to the fabulous feats of the past, like under Ericsson etc. ... trophies will start to pile up again!

This is certain because of the stratospheric quality of the rest of the team. It's only missing a Lampart, a Beckham, a Rio, an Owen and 10 or 11 more quality players and it would almost be as good as the incredible 2000 team... almost!

Can you imagine? Aren't you shivering from excitement???

 

[ManRant]

When Rooney and big Sam finally leave, the national team will return to the fabulous feats of the past, like under Ericsson etc. ... trophies will start to pile up again!

I haven't checked but those who are angry with Sam's statement, are they English? This is because I feel indifferent about the issue.

Btw, England is not going to win anything as long as Rooney's playing. It didn't happen for as long as he has played for England, and it will never happen in the future. It was so different before.

 

[wr8_utd]

I haven't checked but those who are angry with Sam's statement, are they English? This is because I feel indifferent about the issue.

Btw, England is not going to win anything as long as Rooney's playing. It didn't happen for as long as he has played for England, and it will never happen in the future. It was so different before.

They're not going to win with or without Rooney. They're rubbish.

 

[ManRant]

They're not going to win with or without Rooney. They're rubbish.

True. But, at least without him they will play better. Please stick to the hyperbole when it is about Rooney.

 

[stevoc]

I haven't checked but those who are angry with Sam's statement, are they English? This is because I feel indifferent about the issue.

Btw, England is not going to win anything as long as Rooney's playing. It didn't happen for as long as he has played for England, and it will never happen in the future. It was so different before.

Yeah it was all Wayne's fault.

 

[Minimalist]

Yeah it was all Wayne's fault.

Well ..it kind of was in one instance when he stood on someones groin in 2006.

 

[stevoc]

Well ..it kind of was in one instance when he stood on someones groin in 2006.

True he did cost them that one.

 

[BigTimeCharlie]

I haven't checked but those who are angry with Sam's statement, are they English? This is because I feel indifferent about the issue.

Btw, England is not going to win anything as long as Rooney's playing. It didn't happen for as long as he has played for England, and it will never happen in the future. It was so different before.

If you take Rooneys goals away from England, England would never have qualified for any major tournament.

Why is there never any constructive critcism about Rooney. Its either one extreme to another.

For England, he easily fits in the team. Midfield 3 of delle ali, dier and rooney. Nobody is better in there than Rooney, Henderson looked very unimpressive.

Kane cant hit a barn door since Spurs collapsed and lallana didnt exactly show how great he was.

The fact is, out of the starting 11 for England, Rooney does a better job than the LW, ST and CM.

Lets not over-rate england now. For United, I would like to see something different and he doesnt get into my first 11 on name but based on key moments he has delivered for United this season, you cant argue with that.

My attempts at being rational, it maybe easier to join the extreme bandwagons.

Rooney starts based on form for United and shite players for England.

 

[Manny]

I haven't checked but those who are angry with Sam's statement, are they English? This is because I feel indifferent about the issue.

I can confirm we are delighted that Rooney is firmly in Big Sam's plans.

Well ..it kind of was in one instance when he stood on someones groin in 2006.

He didn't show up at all for WC 2010 so I put him at fault there too.

 

[Cheesy]

If you take Rooneys goals away from England, England would never have qualified for any major tournament.

Why is there never any constructive critcism about Rooney. Its either one extreme to another.

For England, he easily fits in the team. Midfield 3 of delle ali, dier and rooney. Nobody is better in there than Rooney, Henderson looked very unimpressive.

Kane cant hit a barn door since Spurs collapsed and lallana didnt exactly show how great he was.

The fact is, out of the starting 11 for England, Rooney does a better job than the LW, ST and CM.

Lets not over-rate england now. For United, I would like to see something different and he doesnt get into my first 11 on name but based on key moments he has delivered for United this season, you cant argue with that.

My attempts at being rational, it maybe easier to join the extreme bandwagons.

Rooney starts based on form for United and shite players for England.

This is a really silly way of looking at it. Yes, Rooney's goals have been valuable for England but if you take him out of the side then someone else replaces him who would probably still score an alright number of goals. It's like saying we'd have come 5th if we didn't have Ronaldo in 07/08 - it ignores external factors, as well as the fact that simply eliminating a goalscorer for a team doesn't always eliminate those goals.

 

[Dante]

He's a leader. He works harder than anyone. He pulls the strings on the pitch. He asks for the ball whenever someone's in need of an out-ball. He's not shy of taking risks and shooting on goal.

This forum really needs to understand football better. Rooney has been pivotal to every manager he's played under, and Mourinho is no different. Football Manager 2016 be damned.

 

[ManRant]

If you take Rooneys goals away from England, England would never have qualified for any major tournament.

Why is there never any constructive critcism about Rooney. Its either one extreme to another.

For England, he easily fits in the team. Midfield 3 of delle ali, dier and rooney. Nobody is better in there than Rooney, Henderson looked very unimpressive.

Kane cant hit a barn door since Spurs collapsed and lallana didnt exactly show how great he was.

The fact is, out of the starting 11 for England, Rooney does a better job than the LW, ST and CM.

Lets not over-rate england now. For United, I would like to see something different and he doesnt get into my first 11 on name but based on key moments he has delivered for United this season, you cant argue with that.

My attempts at being rational, it maybe easier to join the extreme bandwagons.

Rooney starts based on form for United and shite players for England.

Great response. I agree with you.

 

[Womp]

He's a leader. He works harder than anyone. He pulls the strings on the pitch. He asks for the ball whenever someone's in need of an out-ball. He's not shy of taking risks and shooting on goal.

This forum really needs to understand football better. Rooney has been pivotal to every manager he's played under, and Mourinho is no different. Football Manager 2016 be damned.

Under his "leadership" United have slumped to 7th, 4th, 5th and England were knocked out of the Euros by Iceland.
Vidic was also a leader, so was Ferdinand, didn't stop them leaving when it was obvious they were done.

Working harder than anyone is hardly good enough to be playing for Manchester United, if that was the case Lingard would be one of the first names on the team sheet.

Pulling the strings? Bar a few moments of brilliance he is for the most part anonymous for the majority of games, mixed with a few failed attempts at cross-field passes and bad first touches. Getting the ball and recycling it out to the wing isn't "pulling the strings". What Iniesta does is pulling the strings, what Modric does, what Mkhitryan can do.

Asking for the ball is also not exactly good enough to be a Manchester United player either unfortunately, Nani could be absolutely dire and would still continue to ask for the ball, didn't save his career with us despite him not declining as rapidly as Wayne has.
Not shy of taking risks? He ruins countless potential attacks because he doesn't attempt the risky ball or run, instead turning and looking for a back pass, as mentioned a few moments of brilliance in a game isn't enough to be playing in such a vital position for a team that has aspirations to be one of Europe's elite again.

He lost the ball 3 times in a matter of a few seconds, if he can't deal with Hull City's pressing what makes you feel confident he could deal with that of the best teams in the world. Unforuntately not every team we play is Hull City, where we will create a thousand chances and our mistakes won't be punished. Losing the ball in such a dangerous area, not once but three fecking times back to back against a capable team and that would have result in a goal most likely. Losing the ball in the middle of the pitch to the likes of Messi, Iniesta, Suarez, Neymar, Ronaldo, Modric etc. and we would be counting our blessings.

I don't care for Rooney playing against the weaker teams that can't punish us, but playing in games of high intesity and pressing, he just doesn't have it in him anymore. I don't feel confident at all with him losing the ball in our half to the likes of Silva, KDB, Sterling and Aguero etc. next week, due to a diabolical first touch.

Whether or not he's been pivotal isn't very relevant, he was pivotal under LVG, Moyes and fecking Hodgson, the same way Troy Deeney is pivotal for his club, doesn't make him any better of a player or Watford any more successful as a club. He was pivotal under SAF granted, but he could play football back then, times have changed, not to add SAF's last hurrah was trying to get rid of him. Neville was pivotal to our club, lets bring him out of punditry and give him the shirt back.

 

[Dante]

Under his "leadership" United have slumped to 7th, 4th, 5th and England were knocked out of the Euros by Iceland. Vidic was also a leader, so was Ferdinand, didn't stop them leaving when it was obvious they were done.

Working harder than anyone is hardly good enough to be playing for Manchester United, if that was the case Lingard would be one of the first names on the team sheet.

Pulling the strings? Bar a few moments of brilliance he is for the most part anonymous for the majority of games, mixed with a few failed attempts at cross-field passes and bad first touches. Getting the ball and recycling it out to the wing isn't "pulling the strings". What Iniesta does is pulling the strings, what Modric does, what Mkhitryan can do.

Asking for the ball is also not exactly good enough to be a Manchester United player either unfortunately, Nani could be absolutely dire and would still continue to ask for the ball, didn't save his career with us despite him not declining as rapidly as Wayne has.
Not shy of taking risks? He ruins countless potential attacks because he doesn't attempt the risky ball or run, instead turning and looking for a back pass, as mentioned a few moments of brilliance in a game isn't enough to be playing in such a vital position for a team that has aspirations to be one of Europe's elite again.

He lost the ball 3 times in a matter of a few seconds, if he can't deal with Hull City's pressing what makes you feel confident he could deal with that of the best teams in the world. Unforuntately not every team we play is Hull City, where we will create a thousand chances and our mistakes won't be punished. Losing the ball in such a dangerous area, not once but three fecking times back to back against a capable team and that would have result in a goal most likely. Losing the ball in the middle of the pitch to the likes of Messi, Iniesta, Suarez, Neymar, Ronaldo, Modric etc. and we would be counting our blessings.

I don't care for Rooney playing against the weaker teams that can't punish us, but playing in games of high intesity and pressing, he just doesn't have it in him anymore. I don't feel confident at all with him losing the ball in our half to the likes of Silva, KDB, Sterling and Aguero etc. next week, due to a diabolical first touch.

Whether or not he's been pivotal isn't very relevant, he was pivotal under LVG, Moyes and fecking Hodgson, the same way Troy Deeney is pivotal for his club, doesn't make him any better of a player or Watford any more successful as a club. He was pivotal under SAF granted, but he could play football back then, times have changed, not to add SAF's last hurrah was trying to get rid of him. Neville was pivotal to our club, lets bring him out of punditry and give him the shirt back.

De Gea's shit as well, then.

 

[manunited1919]

He's a leader. He works harder than anyone. He pulls the strings on the pitch. He asks for the ball whenever someone's in need of an out-ball. He's not shy of taking risks and shooting on goal.

What exactly does it mean to pull the strings on the pitch? I've never seen doing that, except for complaining to referee's.

He asks for the ball, then passes it backward or square, or misplaces the pass. That's if the ball doesn't bounce off him and he looses it.

Despite not being shy of taking risks, and playing as a #9 most of last season, he only scored 8 premier league goals. The whole argument we all are making is that he is giving diminishing returns, and is taking the place of others who can produce much better football and better results in terms of goals and assists.

 

[Dante]

What exactly does it mean to pull the strings on the pitch? I've never seen doing that, except for complaining to referee's.

He asks for the ball, then passes it backward or square, or misplaces the pass. That's if the ball doesn't bounce off him and he looses it.

Despite not being shy of taking risks, and playing as a #9 most of last season, he only scored 8 premier league goals. The whole argument we all are making is that he is giving diminishing returns, and is taking the place of others who can produce much better football and better results in terms of goals and assists.

This is clearly exaggeration.

I appreciate that you can get away with silly posts on the internet, but let's not lose our grip on reality.

The next thing we'll see is somebody claiming Rooney tells the media what to say.

Disagree with managers on the finer points, but Rooney being a first team player is evidently a common thread amongst all who've had him under their charge.