[prath92]

Anyone saying that hes been shit for 5/6 years now is being dishonest but I have been accused of basically saying that. What I actually said was 'his game has been declining (slow at first and then more rapidly) since 2010' or to put it another way... 2010 was Rooney at his very best (his prime). I don't think he was shit in 2011, 2012 etc - but I simply disagree with people who think his reputation as an elite player (beyond hardcore United/England supporters) hasn't been going downhill since then.

And the reason I bring that up is because it's a good example of how valid criticism or an opinion at least gets twisted by (forgive me) folks who seem to have different standards for Rooney compared to other players out there. If Rooney was foreign he would be gone by now.

I think that's fair enough. He certainly has declined and no one would be stupid enough to deny that.

And there have actually been a lot of people tbf who said he hasn't played well for 5 years. Your comment seems fair enough but I even saw someone say Pogba in the Southampton game was better than anything Rooney did in 5 years.

At the end of the day I take it that mourinho knows better than me and I trust his judgement. If he feels Rooney should be in the team, I'm sure it's not because he is obligated to play him.

 

[Jaybomb]

He's getting the numbers. He won't be dropped as long as he's providing the assists and the odd goal here and there.

 

[Drz]

For me, the current Rooney reminds me of Charlie Adam (is he still playing)?

 

[Duafc]

For me, the current Rooney reminds me of Charlie Adam (is he still playing)?

His corners are worth 10m alone though.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Big fuss over nothing.

As Wayne said, 'there's a big overreaction to it'.

That said, he is one of the biggest names in football.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Big fuss over nothing.

As Wayne said, 'there's a big overreaction to it'.

That said, he is one of the biggest names in football.

It's only a big overreaction in ROONEYS eyes as he thinks he did a good job. Fact is he was poor all game, apart from a few little spots in the 2nd once they were down to 10.

I can just about bare him as a 10, I never want to see him in midfield again

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

It's only a big overreaction in ROONEYS eyes as he thinks he did a good job. Fact is he was poor all game, apart from a few little spots in the 2nd once they were down to 10.

I can just about bare him as a 10, I never want to see him in midfield again

Let's be honest, there's always a big overreaction when it comes to Rooney, regardless of what he says in the media.

 

[liamp]

You're probably right, but is it 100 per cent impossible?

Cut off his arm and count the rings.

 

[sugar_kane]

Glad he's becoming everyone else's problem and not just ours.

Will make it less of a big deal if/when Jose drops him if he's accepted as being shite for England.

 

[Americano]

My favourite part is, 'we aren't going to make a big deal about this, are we?' As though giving a player absolutely free reign to do whatever the feck he wants is a normal thing.

Let Wayne be Wayne!

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Don't like him an never really have, and that probably clouds my judgement on what should be done with him now he is declining, sensible hat on maybe says he is just about clinging on to his first team place, but we are talking a very short time frame before he isn't.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

What can I say? This one cannot be saved. Probably has got an invite for Coleen's Xmas party.

You're not usually lost for words when it comes to Rooney.

 

[Red_toad]

Yet another personal insult.

It seems all you want to do is throw childish insults around

Let's not waste both our time.

Oh dear. Enjoy wearing that shoe!

 

[Minimalist]

Rooney has rarely not come across as a tosser off the pitch. That's totally unrelated to his performances on it but I'm often surprised at the 'hero' status some seem so keen to put on him. He's way down the list.

 

[Rado_N]

read the bloody thread title

 

[wr8_utd]

Also, like @Walters_19_MuFc said, there's more love for Bastian here than Rooney

 

[Art Vandelay]

Cheers for the reply!

See, I'm actually very close to being in full agreement with your opinion. It's just that I'm not going to bother letting Rooney drive me crazy and borderline irrational anymore. Since Mourinho came in, he has contributed to tangible results for the scoreline in the four competitive games we've played, that's all I'm saying, so as long as that happens I'm OK with him being played. I don't think many of his defenders would have any quarrel with him being dropped if he A) plays crap and B) stops being productive.

It's just that this is a discussion forum, the best I've encountered in fact, and taking up extreme positions and refusing to budge an inch on account of past transgressions isn't a very constructive way to bring about interesting debate. Which I believe you just did with me (taking the time to argue your point in an orderly manner without even calling me names, all in a constructive way), so thank you

Well you didn't attempt to dismiss everyone that disagreed with you as some sort of lunatic so it's always easier to reply and an increasingly rare occurrence in here.

This thread has just gotten out of hand, people are getting rubbed the wrong way simply because other people think differently about a player. Both sides are entrenched and we are all a bit militant at this point. Dunno how we got here, but we are here. I'm not innocent and not pointing the finger, but we have reached a weird place. I doubt anyone is going to back down at this point though, we all have our views and rightly or wrongly the nefarious bastard that is Wayne Rooney seems to be either plundering the depths we expect him to or meeting our expectations on a weekly basis. At this point I'm not even sure he's real.

Both sides have attempted to explain their stance over and over again, but we can't seem to find common ground despite the fact we all support the same bloody team.

 

[#07]

Also, like @Walters_19_MuFc said, there's more love for Bastian here than Rooney

Give over! That's a daft thing to say. People just can't understand why Rooney is being indulged as he is.

Why must Rooney play deeper? Sheringham, Zola, Bergkamp etc. none of them played deeper in their latter career. They played as second strikers from start to finish. Nobody has explained why Rooney must drop back? Why? Because Scholes did it. Newsflash, Rooney ain't Scholes. His performances in midfield show that.

Why can't Rooney just accept, like Teddy did, that he's better served conserving his energy and just coming alive in bursts around the box. When he does that he can still produce e.g. at Hull a week or so ago. Why is he so hellbent to go chasing the ball and then hitting long diagonals, often to nobody?

The reason we have got to this place is because we have allowed Rooney to believe he's bigger than Man Utd. Rooney has convinced himself that he's a midfielder, and he has convinced himself that he's such a great midfielder nobody should object to him playing there. Its madness. It all feeds into this sense that Rooney is given special privileges not afforded to the likes of Robbo, Sparky, the lads that won us the Treble, Ruud etc. Everyone of them had to toe the line but Rooney? Nah. He does what he wants. Its so un-Manchester United like.

Its eerily like the worship Liverpool gave Gerrard when he was hobbling about hitting Hollywood balls, long after his engine had gone. As someone used to Fergie ruthlessly getting rid of players whose best days were behind them, I can't get use to this.

 

[spwd]

Give over! That's a daft thing to say. People just can't understand why Rooney is being indulged as he is.

Why must Rooney play deeper? Sheringham, Zola, Bergkamp etc. none of them played deeper in their latter career. They played as second strikers from start to finish. Nobody has explained why Rooney must drop back? Why? Because Scholes did it. Newsflash, Rooney ain't Scholes. His performances in midfield show that.

Why can't Rooney just accept, like Teddy did, that he's better served conserving his energy and just coming alive in bursts around the box. When he does that he can still produce e.g. at Hull a week or so ago. Why is he so hellbent to go chasing the ball and then hitting long diagonals, often to nobody?

The reason we have got to this place is because we have allowed Rooney to believe he's bigger than Man Utd. Rooney has convinced himself that he's a midfielder, and he has convinced himself that he's such a great midfielder nobody should object to him playing there. Its madness. It all feeds into this sense that Rooney is given special privileges not afforded to the likes of Robbo, Sparky, the lads that won us the Treble, Ruud etc. Everyone of them had to toe the line but Rooney? Nah. He does what he wants. Its so un-Manchester United like.

Its eerily like the worship Liverpool gave Gerrard when he was hobbling about hitting Hollywood balls, long after his engine had gone. As someone used to Fergie ruthlessly getting rid of players whose best days were behind them, I can't get use to this.

Unfortunately there is something missing today that would have sorted it the same as before, let's hope Jose follows Fergies lead.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Give over! That's a daft thing to say. People just can't understand why Rooney is being indulged as he is.

Why must Rooney play deeper? Sheringham, Zola, Bergkamp etc. none of them played deeper in their latter career. They played as second strikers from start to finish. Nobody has explained why Rooney must drop back? Why? Because Scholes did it. Newsflash, Rooney ain't Scholes. His performances in midfield show that.

Why can't Rooney just accept, like Teddy did, that he's better served conserving his energy and just coming alive in bursts around the box. When he does that he can still produce e.g. at Hull a week or so ago. Why is he so hellbent to go chasing the ball and then hitting long diagonals, often to nobody?

The reason we have got to this place is because we have allowed Rooney to believe he's bigger than Man Utd. Rooney has convinced himself that he's a midfielder, and he has convinced himself that he's such a great midfielder nobody should object to him playing there. Its madness. It all feeds into this sense that Rooney is given special privileges not afforded to the likes of Robbo, Sparky, the lads that won us the Treble, Ruud etc. Everyone of them had to toe the line but Rooney? Nah. He does what he wants. Its so un-Manchester United like.

Its eerily like the worship Liverpool gave Gerrard when he was hobbling about hitting Hollywood balls, long after his engine had gone. As someone used to Fergie ruthlessly getting rid of players whose best days were behind them, I can't get use to this.

Hear hear! Well said. Especially those last two paragraphs.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Also, like @Walters_19_MuFc said, there's more love for Bastian here than Rooney

It's a bloody football forum, not a One Direction fan club. Stop being such a teenage girl and instead try constructively discussing Rooney the Manchester United player, instead of focusing on nonsense like love & hate. I doubt many, if any, on here actually hate him. The majority of simply fed up of his poor performances. It's exacerbating having to debate each week whether Rooney was slightly worse than the week before, or whether his slightly less poor performance was a good performance in general or merely a good performance by Rooney's standards, which these days is usually a poor performance by anyone elses standards. Around and around in circles we go...

 

[Adam-Utd]

His friends in the press have already started the Rooney PR bandwagon back up again. Neil Ashton posted how "Rooney reigns supreme in England camp as young players are in awe of their hero". They make out like he's some sort of superhero FFS

 

[Adisa]

His friends in the press have already started the Rooney PR bandwagon back up again. Neil Ashton posted how "Rooney reigns supreme in England camp as young players are in awe of their hero". They make out like he's some sort of superhero FFS

Read it. It was a pathetic article. It's like some think people will forget his shit performance on Saturday because they read a glowing article on Sunday. Nobody is buying it.

 

[settembrini]

It wasn't a glowing article at all. It was critical both of Rooney's performance and of Allardyce for indulging him.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Read it. It was a pathetic article. It's like some think people will forget his shit performance on Saturday because they read a glowing article on Sunday. Nobody is buying it.

It's frustrating as I don't want to keep harping on about him, I want him to start commanding games and smashing a hattrick against City, but I watch him week in week out and nothing changes. His fitness is so much lower than it used to be. Look at the interview after the game, Lallana looks like he's just finished a warm up on the touchline while Wayne's completed the London Marathon

 

[Adam-Utd]

It wasn't a glowing article at all. It was critical both of Rooney's performance and of Allardyce for indulging him.

TBH being the Sun I didn't originally read the article, just the headline. Yes it's actually more critical than I expected, which is a good thing really.

I don't like the attitude of Rooney thinking he's above the team, he once had the ability to warrant that, he's just a slightly above average player these days.

 

[Born2Lose]

Thankfully not an England fan so I'm glad to see that a whole new group of people can see the undeserved privilege that Rooney has been getting at United for the past season. It must be even worse for England fans though because there's potentially a very pacey young team developing there, but then there's this slow oafish self indulgent manchild slowing everything down with his long diagonal passes.

Add Peter Shilton to the Rooney Haterz list. The reason.. uhmm.. he's probably worried that Rooney will get more caps than him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37278454

 

[Adam-Utd]

Thankfully not an England fan so I'm glad to see that a whole new group of people can see the undeserved privilege that Rooney has been getting at United for the past season. It must be even worse for England fans though because there's potentially a very pacey young team developing there, but then there's this slow oafish self indulgent manchild slowing everything down with his long diagonal passes.

Add Peter Shilton to the Rooney Haterz list. The reason.. uhmm.. he's probably worried that Rooney will get more caps than him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37278454

I am glad a few ex legends have decided to give him some heat.

Rooney USED TO react with negativity and put out a good performance with fire in his belly, let's hope he can do that in the derby.

 

[spwd]

Thankfully not an England fan so I'm glad to see that a whole new group of people can see the undeserved privilege that Rooney has been getting at United for the past season. It must be even worse for England fans though because there's potentially a very pacey young team developing there, but then there's this slow oafish self indulgent manchild slowing everything down with his long diagonal passes.

Add Peter Shilton to the Rooney Haterz list. The reason.. uhmm.. he's probably worried that Rooney will get more caps than him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37278454

Nice one Shilts, finally seeing some people speaking the truth instead of worshipping him for doing basically jack shit and screwing the team tactics up.

 

[nick2004]

Give over! That's a daft thing to say. People just can't understand why Rooney is being indulged as he is.

Why? Because Rooney is a legend!

He is the greatest goalscorer that England has ever produced! And yes this means he has special privileges.

And guess what... Whoever breaks Rooney 's scoring records some decades in the future... he will also get special privileges!!! Hard to believe???

 

[nick2004]

Why is Kane playing for the national team? He was shit in the Euros, much worse than Rooney... and a year or two of scoring in a weak premiership shouldn't mean he gets special privileges. He did not break any records or anything...

 

[#07]

Why? Because Rooney is a legend!

He is the greatest goalscorer that England has ever produced! And yes this means he has special privileges.

And guess what... Whoever breaks Rooney 's scoring records some decades in the future... he will also get special privileges!!! Hard to believe???

It is actually.

Manchester United has had tons of legends that it has unceremoniously discarded when they were past their best. Keano was a legend. Didn't even get to see out his final season, he was gone at Xmas.

Since when did legendary status stop a player's current form being questioned at Man Utd? As I said before, this feels suspiciously like Liverpoolisation. Nobody is allowed to ask if Rooney is worthy of his place in the team, because of stuff he did three or four years ago. Whatever happened to only being as good as your last game? This is the kind of thing that would never have happened under Sir Alex.

 

[Adisa]

Neil Ashton doing some work for his exclusive at a later date.

 

[manunited1919]

Some comments here have been deemed to be over-the-top against Rooney.

Well, I wonder then what words will be used to describe articles such as this one:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/sam-allardyce-already-making-mistakes-112158488.html

Warning, if you are in the pro-Rooney camp you won't enjoy reading this.

 

[SomeRandomPerson]

Why? Because Rooney is a legend!

He is the greatest goalscorer that England has ever produced! And yes this means he has special privileges.

And guess what... Whoever breaks Rooney 's scoring records some decades in the future... he will also get special privileges!!! Hard to believe???

Him being a legend gives him some leeway, I agree- but he's being indulged in a manner that Roy Keane or say, David Beckham never were. And both of them, it could be reasonably argued, were better players than Wayne Rooney.

See, I've always been a fan of Rooney's but he just isn't the player he was 3-4 years ago, and wondering if the team would do better with Mata/Mkhitaryan/Delle Alli playing in his place is reasonable.

Wayne Rooney in his prime was an absolute sledge hammer of a player. A genuine edge-of-your-seat attacker, who took players on, who swatted challenges away. Now, he just slows games down, and plays a diagonal pass to the full back with a rather infuriating regularity. Him being a great player in the past shouldn't weave over his present performances.

Edit: And before someone brings it up, I realise he's putting up good numbers this season so far. And as long as he's doing that, him being in the United team is not as big a hurdle for me as it allegedly is for some. But the question of United (and England) having better players in his position is legitimate in my opininon.

 

[manunited1919]

Unless his form improves dramatically, he made a huge mistake pre-announcing his retirement from England after WC. If he continues playing for England his days as a United player will be much much shorter, as there will be shitstorms after shitstorms in the media in the near future. The perception of Rooney in the media is already starting to change. Once it turns completely, even his place in the United squad will be in doubt.

 

[stevoc]

It is actually.

Manchester United has had tons of legends that it has unceremoniously discarded when they were past their best. Keano was a legend. Didn't even get to see out his final season, he was gone at Xmas.

Since when did legendary status stop a player's current form being questioned at Man Utd? As I said before, this feels suspiciously like Liverpoolisation. Nobody is allowed to ask if Rooney is worthy of his place in the team, because of stuff he did three or four years ago. Whatever happened to only being as good as your last game? This is the kind of thing that would never have happened under Sir Alex.

There was a bit more to why Keane had to leave halfway through a season as you will know.

Rooney shouldn't be an automatic starter but i think he can become a valuable squad member like Giggs, Scholes, Robson etc. were for a few years yet.

 

[VP89]

In a fully fit side, I'd rather see Mata in the hole than Rooney. But you can't deny the stats - 2 goals and an assist in 3 games means he has to continue playing. Hopefully he can keep it up I'm not overly optimistic. The emergence of Rashford and introduction of Mkhitaryan & Zlatan means he'll probably get dropped at some point this season.

Being dropped isn't a problem though, he can still get about 15 starts a season and play a decent enough role for us.

 

[#07]

There was a bit more to why Keane had to leave halfway through a season as you will know.

Rooney shouldn't be an automatic starter but i think he can become a valuable squad member like Giggs, Scholes, Robson etc. were for a few years yet.

It didn't matter though did it?

If Keane had been the Keane of 1999 would Fergie have pushed him out? This is a manager who gave players mid-season holidays and drove around on the back of a motorbike to convince Cantona not to quit the game.

Keano was moved on because, on the cost benefit analysis, Fergie decided his usefulness no longer outweighed the cons of keeping him. The same thing happened to a bunch of other legends. Why treat Rooney differently?

You say Rooney shouldn't be an automatic starter, yet the England manager is saying he should play where he wants, and some on the CAF think questioning that is wrong out of principle.

Rooney's let his body go to the point where its hard to see him becoming the player he was four years ago. That being the case why should his place at United not be questioned?

The main defence for the unquestioning approach taken to Rooney by some seems to be he's a legend. Well, so were many others that Fergie pushed out. Just because he was great doesn't mean we can't question if he is great right now. I wish he was, especially as we seem determined to play him come what may.

 

[manunited1919]

Some comments here have been deemed to be over-the-top against Rooney.

Well, I wonder then what words will be used to describe articles such as this one:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/sam-allardyce-already-making-mistakes-112158488.html

Warning, if you are in the pro-Rooney camp you won't enjoy reading this.

"The criticisms of his game have been done so many times that they should be redundant, and the length of his weaknesses is now so extensive that it could fill a monograph. The only reason to repeat them is things have now got to the point that it his defence appears more of a conspiracy theory than anything else. Allardyce, most of the Sunday Supplement, and pundits like Danny Murphy, continue to insist that he is excellent. Even one usually competent Sunday broadsheet journalist is capable about breaking stories about secret plots of the Chinese to purchase Liverpool, but yet cannot venture the opinion that something is seriously broken with Rooney. There is not really any other word for it at this point than weird."